When in the world did we gamers become this group of racist, sexist monsters?  At what point did this happen?

Gamers in my experience have been among the most inclusive group of people in the world.  Someone has a game on the table of a local game store, and the first gamers who own do, whenever someone comes close is ask, "Wanna try?"  No judgements, no comments about any other thing but the game.  It's always been like this in my experience, so what changed?  And when did it?  I'd honestly like to know.

It's not about you. It's about people who feel uncomfortable in the "typical" gaming space. Are all white bearded males all wankers? No.It's not about the good experiences (unfortunately) it's about the impact the bad ones have had on an individual.

This is not a dichotomy. It's not a "us" vs. "them" situation. If someone started calling me a fat-beard moron at OrcaCon I would have just as much as a right to complain about the behavior.

I am not saying a convention that does not have inclusivity as a focus is now somehow a cesspool of horrible people doing horrible things. I'm saying that the convention I have attended two years in a row is fun and the focus I believe brings a variety of people that I don't often see in other venues. It's simply one convention in a plethora with a refreshing approach that I appreciate.

Now, what cons do you peeps really like for RPG gaming?  Which ones do you think suck for RPG gaming?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;943825Gamers in my experience have been among the most inclusive group of people in the world.  Someone has a game on the table of a local game store, and the first gamers who own do, whenever someone comes close is ask, "Wanna try?"  No judgements, no comments about any other thing but the game.  It's always been like this in my experience, so what changed?  And when did it?  I'd honestly like to know.

I've never experienced that. When I visit the local established rpg and cardgame/wargaming shops often even the clerks won't say hello or even acknowledge your existence. I can wander all over the shop scanning the shelves and glancing at the people playing at the tables and get nothing but 'who the fuck are you' looks. Sometimes there's even the stereotypical smell of BO. I'm a full fledged nerd so how they must greet others off the street is probably even worse.

That's one of the reasons I prefer going to a small shop that specializes in used fantasy and rpg books with a sprinkling of newer games and some OSR product. The owner actually greets his customers and will gladly answer questions or look something up to order for you (he's got a hardcopy of the LotFP rules on order and is looking for the new hardcover 5th edition of Pendragon for me).

The one con I ever attended was depressing and full of anime cosplay kids. I game with friends and family and people I meet through a local gaming society. If my introduction to the hobby was through the stores I would have never got into tabletop.

Quote from: trechriron;943827It's not about you. It's about people who feel uncomfortable in the "typical" gaming space. Are all white bearded males all wankers? No.It's not about the good experiences (unfortunately) it's about the impact the bad ones have had on an individual.

So, you're saying 'Them' as opposed to 'Us'?  Of course, there'll be bad experiences, no one's perfect, but by dwelling on those, you're creating an atmosphere where those bad times are seemingly common.  They're not.  Otherwise, no one would ever game.  Why bother gaming if you don't have enough fun to forgive the bad days?

Quote from: trechriron;943827This is not a dichotomy. It's not a "us" vs. "them" situation. If someone started calling me a fat-beard moron at OrcaCon I would have just as much as a right to complain about the behavior.

But you JUST created that dichotomy, by assuming that some people won't be comfortable for...  Reasons.

And yeah, some people don't think that X game will be for them.  I'm not a fan of Dominion or Carcassone, for example, and if someone's running a demo at a store or convention, and grabs my eye I'll politely decline.  But that's not cause I'll be uncomfortable, but rather it's not a game I'm interested in.  If someone pops open a Super Dungeon Explore, or a Warmachine (two games I've heard about, but not played), and offers to demo, I'll jump in.

In my experience, this has been the biggest reasons as to people say 'No'.  They're not interested, or they don't have the time.

Quote from: trechriron;943827I am not saying a convention that does not have inclusivity as a focus is now somehow a cesspool of horrible people doing horrible things. I'm saying that the convention I have attended two years in a row is fun and the focus I believe brings a variety of people that I don't often see in other venues. It's simply one convention in a plethora with a refreshing approach that I appreciate.

By claiming 'inclusivity' you're assuming that other cons, that don't use that title are somehow preventative or exclusive.  That's how SJW enforce their Puritanical tyranny, by claiming something is X, which is superiour, they're pushing the agenda that only THEY know what's right.

Quote from: trechriron;943827Now, what cons do you peeps really like for RPG gaming?  Which ones do you think suck for RPG gaming?

Name me ONE gaming convention on a state to national level that actively chases people out for wanting to game.  Just one.  And I'll show you a convention that isn't worth going to.  And probably won't last more than a year or two.

Quote from: trechriron;943827it's about the impact the bad ones have had on an individual.

See that right there is why I don't agree with this "focus".  It supports institutionalized victimhood.  It doesn't matter who you are or what's happened to you in your life, you have to be able to live in your own skin.

If you can't sit down at a table and play a game without overtly stated acceptance of who you are, then that means you don't 100% accept yourself who you are, and a place where other players hold your hand and treat you like a special, fragile thing isn't how you are going to get it.

Once that self-acceptance happens, then you won't care about others' overtly stated acceptance.
Until that self-acceptance happens, all the overtly stated acceptance just reinforces the idea that there's something wrong, wounded, whatever about you.

If someone is actually that fragile, and it's not self-indulgent horseshit, then they need help, not the reinforcement of harmful Avoidance defense mechanisms.

Trent, a couple questions...
1. Have you been to a con where tacit acceptance, and the understood "don't be a dick" didn't work and you personally saw toxic, unaccepting behavior?
2. Where's the 'proof' as it were, of the inclusivity bringing people together?  Do people sit down and declare their non-heteronormative classification before you played?  Did someone who identifies as a Reverse-TransDimensionallyGendered Wookie-Kin tell you how surprised they were that you didn't beat them up?
3. What do you think is actually happening? Are assholes just not showing up *because* of the focus?  Or do you think new people who would not have come before are showing up because of the focus?
4. Do you think things would really be any different if you just hung Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." over the front door?

I dunno man, all I see in my minds eye about a tabletop convention organized by Penny Arcade is just miles of tables with either * of Catan or Pathfinder being played, and that's it.  Fuck that noise; I've got better things to do than boring shit like Catan or "Watch me show off my wind-up Lego skills/feat tree" for 3 hours a session and $60/day.

Even the one time one of the two guys from PA actually played original D&D he stated he explicitly ran it as a museum piece, no your characters can't die, nothing here matters.  Like putting your party on a boat in Pirates of the Caribbean or walking through Madam Tussaud's.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;943883I dunno man, all I see in my minds eye about a tabletop convention organized by Penny Arcade is just miles of tables with either * of Catan or Pathfinder being played, and that's it.  Fuck that noise; I've got better things to do than boring shit like Catan or "Watch me show off my wind-up Lego skills/feat tree" for 3 hours a session and $60/day.

Even the one time one of the two guys from PA actually played original D&D he stated he explicitly ran it as a museum piece, no your characters can't die, nothing here matters.  Like putting your party on a boat in Pirates of the Caribbean or walking through Madam Tussaud's.

Eh, I doubt it will be that bad, I'm sure there will be at least 5e in addition to Pathfinder, maybe some of the other companies with Living Campaigns might do something.  On the media side, some people will take their Twitch shows there, maybe the Critical Role guys will do a show, I'm sure some of the Geek News outlets will cover it.  PAX is a name that has a longer Internet Attention Span Half-life, so people will want to be involved.  Visibility=Good.

After working Cons at the dealers' room 15+ years ago (Dundra, Kubla, Pacifi...) it will be too soon if and when I return to another gaming convention -- let alone pay for the privilege.

There's only a few things I wanna ever do: check out the dealers' room, check out the cheapo auctions, get in a game of VTES, try an (experimental or new-to-me) rpg. But i don't dig rpg one-shots much. And Org Play is about as fun as skin cancer to me.

The rest i am better off going to a phat party, stumbling ever onwards, and waking up a few days later in an afterglow blur. (Yes, it'll likely be the death of me... a sweet, delicious, overindulgent death.)

edit: So sign me up on dungeondelvers' doubt that "ride" will rival Disney animatronics...

Q.E.D.

Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;943760Why does a gamecon need to be social justice focused?

It doesn't. It just happens to be so. And since I know the assumptions some people will make about that I figured to dispel concerns right off the bat.

Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;943798It seems as though being a white bearded male has it's own stigma now, too, however.

Every group has a stigma now. Please don't adopt the victim narrative too.

#EqualOpportunity

Quote from: jeff37923;943823If some snowflake can't get over the fact that I am a white bearded grognard who enjoys RPGs because I look like someone that was a bearded white male who was mean to them in the past, then why should I reach to them?

Because they don't?

Quote from: jeff37923;943823So, this is to make sure that white males are kept in their place for the con.

We do not corral our white males. All of them are free range and only fed organic empanadas.

Quote from: CRKrueger;943814So what you're saying is Yes, you think gaming conventions where there isn't an INCLUSIVE sign over the front door will feature guys making vagina jokes, using racial epithets, and otherwise verbally raping and lynching the non-Privileged gamers.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;943841By claiming 'inclusivity' you're assuming that other cons, that don't use that title are somehow preventative or exclusive.

But who's doing the assuming here?

I'm reminded of that LARP I know which didn't want to implement a sexual harassment policy because it would imply sexual harassment was a problem there. And just because a con claims to be inclusive doesn't mean a con which doesn't isn't.

That's exactly the kind of fallacious thinking at the heart of the #IdentityPolitics you hate so much, where how someone labels a thing affects how you can label yourself. So lets not validate its use.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;943841Of course, there'll be bad experiences, no one's perfect, but by dwelling on those, you're creating an atmosphere where those bad times are seemingly common.

But who's dwelling on the bad experiences here?

Quote from: CRKrueger;943847See that right there is why I don't agree with this "focus".  It supports institutionalized victimhood.

It can. But it can also provide support for those who need it.

So how do you do one without the other?

Quote from: CRKrueger;943847Do you think things would really be any different if you just hung Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." over the front door?

Well, it does imply the male genitalia is somehow offensive by default.

#IKid

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;944083But who's doing the assuming here?

Not me, I'm not the one making this con.  If I were I wouldn't be using the virtue signaling BS this new PAX one is trying to.  I'd just make a Convention where board games, RPGs and card games are played.  It will be for others to decide whether or not to step in the door.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;944083I'm reminded of that LARP I know which didn't want to implement a sexual harassment policy because it would imply sexual harassment was a problem there. And just because a con claims to be inclusive doesn't mean a con which doesn't isn't.

Sexual harassment is a crime.  Not being 'inclusive' isn't, but the Identity Politickers want it to be, to suit their puritanical agenda.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;944083But who's dwelling on the bad experiences here?

Again, not sure why you think I am.  I still game, and quite happily.  In fact, I've had such great experiences with gaming and gamers of all types that I am one of the RPGSite's filthy, filthy New Schoolers, because I don't see the need to shackle myself to older games.  And I've played a few of those over the years, like Palladium Fantasy 1e, Rules Cyclopedia and had an awesome time with them.  But I'm always willing to try new games.  Can't promise I'll like them, but I promise to give them a fair shake.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;944083Well, it does imply the male genitalia is somehow offensive by default.

#IKid

Welcome to the modern Feminism Political Party.

Anon, you're right in that, declaring inclusivity at a con, by itself doesn't follow that the organizers think cons which don't do that somehow endorse or tacitly accept toxic behavior (but from typical SJW attitudes you can hardly blame someone from inferring it).

However, both you and Trentin have talked about the success of cons that have focused on inclusivity.

I haven't heard yet what you specifically thought what difference that made practically from the cons you attended before and after it, or any other con which did not declare inclusivity as a focus.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;944083Because they don't?

But they do. They want me to attend their gaming convention so that it can virtue signal how inclusive they are. As long as I behave in the way that they demand because since I am a white male I am expected to be a racist xenophobe homophobe exclusivity minded rapist.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;944083We do not corral our white males. All of them are free range and only fed organic empanadas.

Only when we are not being racist xenophobe homophobe exclusivity minded rapists. Otherwise, we do not get fed and are locked up in the coop.

Quote from: Voros;943802[ATTACH=CONFIG]683[/ATTACH]



You seem to be projecting a bit much. There are certainly spaces where some lefty LGBTQ activists seem to go out of their way to ensure anyone they spotcheck as straight, etc are not made to feel welcome but I don't think you'd ever have to worry about that happening at an RPG con.

Whoops, just adding to the derail, oh well at least I was able to include a Simpson's reference.

I don't hardly consider that a projection.  I paraphrased trechiron.  Given subsequent posts, I'm not the only one given that impression.

As far as succesful/unsuccessful cons, I'll hold up our local con Spocon, as something of a flop.  There has been so much nonsensical jockeying for power the last few years that the con has suffered.  

I've hit Dragpnflight a few times, between 09 and 12, i think.  It seemed to run pretty smoothly, my only critique (and why we haven't been back) is that it seems like its mostly the same group of GMs running mostly the same or very similar games.  We need to get back and see if its fresh-y again.

Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;944136Given subsequent posts, I'm not the only one given that impression.

Just because others project or share your 'impression' makes it no less a projection. The level of defensiveness over this is about as in proportion to those who lost their shit over a single 'virtue signalling' sidebar in the 5e PHB.

Loaded rhetoric like virtue signalling and special snowflakes, used like a mantra already throughout this and other threads need to join terms like mansplaining and rape culture on the junk heap.

Quote from: Voros;944155Just because others project or share your 'impression' makes it no less a projection. The level of defensiveness over this is about as in proportion to those who lost their shit over a single 'virtue signalling' sidebar in the 5e PHB.

Loaded rhetoric like virtue signalling and special snowflakes, used like a mantra already throughout this and other threads need to join terms like mansplaining and rape culture on the junk heap.

Right up there with the word "projecting".  You get to toss that term around without actually addressing the point.  The very same shit you accuse others in the thread of.

Nobody projected shit:

Per Threchriron:  I don't look at it as some affront to my personal freedoms, but more as the possibility to connect with people who might otherwise have some anxiety in gaming with me (being a white male bearded grognard who is easily categorized as "one of those guys"...)

Is this a statement of personal experience or not?