Quote from: Spinachcat;1085375The Dark Horse timeline makes the most sense for a RPG setting. For an Aliens game to work, the Alien threat needs to have spread across numerous worlds, including Earth.

As per the films, the Alien threat on Acheron LV426 was vaporized and the prison planet threat was totally contained, leaving nothing but blood samples that took 200 years to make viable again. Not much to do there. Prometheus and its whatever sequel nuked the setting options even further.

For me, I've always declared the Alien Ship on LV426 to have survived the nuclear meltdown. It wasn't that close to the atmospheric station and makes the perfect macguffin for various corporations to steal eggs and spread the disaster from world to world.

BTW, that's also why Predators are highly active in my Aliens campaigns. Lots and lots of hunting grounds with worthy prey.

Why not mix both continuities together? I like your idea of the ship surviving the colony getting nuked.

That way, the Xenomorph threat can spread and you can bring in Predator as well, while Alien 3 remains canon, Joss Whedon's cinematic abortion of a fourth film can be safely declared non-canon, and Hicks and Newt can stay dead just to piss off the whiny meatheads who bash Alien 3 because it wasn't a rehash of Aliens.

And this is from someone who considers Aliens to be the best film in the franchise.

I keep Alien 3 canon in my setting because Ripley dead is easier. I don't like PCs meeting up with canon characters because it always gets too MarySue. Also, the total loss of Colonial Marines combined with a Weyland Yutani coverup means that I get to set up gov't vs. corporate espionage plus revving the rumormill among other marines. Let's not forget that even the marines thought their mission was "another bug hunt" which give credence to the concept that some "bugs" exist as threats on other worlds.

Aliens should have been followed by another Aliens-like movie. That would have been smart box office business. Alien 3 is a fine sequel to Alien because it plays with similar themes, but Aliens took the franchise from "horror thriller" to "military scifi" and that radically changed audience expectations.

But Ripley's death in Alien 3 is one of the most badass of any film hero.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085374I liked Alien 3, you fucking harlot.

Yes, Aliens was better, but Alien 3 is a lot better than Alien Resurrection or the AVP movies.

As long as they do not recognize the Joss Whedon trainwreck that is Alien Resurrection as canon, I can accept them recognizing Alien 3 as canon.

Watch the Assembly Cut of Alien 3, it's much better than the theatrical cut and serves as an excellent finale to the Alien saga.

Lemme guess, you're still butthurt that they killed Hicks and Newt in the third film, aren't you?

Are you even old enough to remember the Alien 3 theater release?  There are precisely 2 things in Alien 3 that even make it worth watching...the dog-like alien showing how the host can affect the final xenomorph and Ripley's death scene.  Other than that the movie ranks up there with introducing midichlorians/Luke's cop-out in the Star Wars universe.

They did such a bad job with the set-up, that it would have been better as a sequel to the original movie.  All they would have to do was substitute the Nostromo's lifeboat for the Sulaco and edited out any scenes with Hicks/Newt's bodies.  

Aliens was a hi-tech sci-fi military action piece, but at its core it was the battle of 2 mother's protecting their children in a war of annihilation.  On one side you have the Queen and her brood, the other is Ripley and her Colonial Marines, because Ripley pretty much is the mother figure in charge as soon as she commandeers the APC to rescue the platoon.  She may 'defer' a little to the supposed people in charge, but if you think she isn't the Alpha on the human side, I suggest you go back and watch it again.

The intro to 3 completely destroyed the basic myth cycle of Aliens when it started with Newt and Hicks being dead.  That is why so many people had a bad visceral reaction when it came out, even if they did not consciously understand from a literary perspective about myth cycles...It just 'felt' wrong to them.
Now the whole martyr sacrifice to save humanity/Jesus thing that Ripley does at the end is actually the perfect ending for the whole story line and most people will agree with this.  The problem people had was the route used to get there, which destroyed the myth cycle of the entire second movie.

...and don't even get me started on the logical fails of the Sulaco damage and Ripley becoming infected...did the Queen grow another ovipositor in the Sulaco landing bay and nobody noticed or did a couple of facehuggers just happen to sneak out of the depths of Hadley Station just in time to hitch a ride on the Cheyenne dropship just like the Queen?


I would agree with setting the campaign timeline just after Alien 3 and leaving it as canon.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1084733I don't agree with the direction that the setting took and haven't watched any Aliens movies since part 3, so... not too excited about it. I ran the old Aliens RPG , a stripped down Phoenix Command, for a while though. It was fun.

Even if stripped down, just running Phoenix Command gives you some RPG street-cred  

Quote from: moonsweeper;1085422Are you even old enough to remember the Alien 3 theater release?  There are precisely 2 things in Alien 3 that even make it worth watching...the dog-like alien showing how the host can affect the final xenomorph and Ripley's death scene.  Other than that the movie ranks up there with introducing midichlorians/Luke's cop-out in the Star Wars universe.

They did such a bad job with the set-up, that it would have been better as a sequel to the original movie.  All they would have to do was substitute the Nostromo's lifeboat for the Sulaco and edited out any scenes with Hicks/Newt's bodies.  

Aliens was a hi-tech sci-fi military action piece, but at its core it was the battle of 2 mother's protecting their children in a war of annihilation.  On one side you have the Queen and her brood, the other is Ripley and her Colonial Marines, because Ripley pretty much is the mother figure in charge as soon as she commandeers the APC to rescue the platoon.  She may 'defer' a little to the supposed people in charge, but if you think she isn't the Alpha on the human side, I suggest you go back and watch it again.

The intro to 3 completely destroyed the basic myth cycle of Aliens when it started with Newt and Hicks being dead.  That is why so many people had a bad visceral reaction when it came out, even if they did not consciously understand from a literary perspective about myth cycles...It just 'felt' wrong to them.
Now the whole martyr sacrifice to save humanity/Jesus thing that Ripley does at the end is actually the perfect ending for the whole story line and most people will agree with this.  The problem people had was the route used to get there, which destroyed the myth cycle of the entire second movie.

...and don't even get me started on the logical fails of the Sulaco damage and Ripley becoming infected...did the Queen grow another ovipositor in the Sulaco landing bay and nobody noticed or did a couple of facehuggers just happen to sneak out of the depths of Hadley Station just in time to hitch a ride on the Cheyenne dropship just like the Queen?


I would agree with setting the campaign timeline just after Alien 3 and leaving it as canon.

I dunno, I loved Alien 3 partly because of Hicks and Newt dying.

One, it pissed off the meatheads which made me like it even more and two, it helped make the tragedy of Ripley and her death more intense.

Alien was claustrophobic body horror, Aliens was military action horror, and Alien 3 was a classical Gothic tragedy.

(And I mean Gothic in the good Edgar Allan Poe sort of way, not the bad Sisters of Mercy sort of way)

Alien Resurrection was still utter shit, but that's mainly because Joss Whedon is an untalented hack who should do the world a favor and suffocate himself with a plastic bag in the midst of a publicly available livestream.

Whedon is a cancer upon geekdom and I will never forgive him for Firefly or the first Avengers movie, or for being a man-thot and lying to his wife about it.

Joss Whedon is neither a whore nor a slut. Whores charge for it and sluts have some dignity.

Joss Whedon is a thot.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085431I dunno, I loved Alien 3 partly because of Hicks and Newt dying.

One, it pissed off the meatheads which made me like it even more and two, it helped make the tragedy of Ripley and her death more intense.

There would have been nothing wrong with the death or loss of Hicks/Newt if it was done properly...

Jonesy survived the Nostromo and actually participated in Aliens in the first act of the movie.  Then the movie moved past him.  That was done properly.


Ripley's death wasn't a tragedy.

Quote from: moonsweeper;1085434Ripley's death wasn't a tragedy.

Maybe not, but even if Ripley's death was not a tragedy, Joss Whedon's hypothetical suicide would be a comedy.

My fellow anime fans and I have a pool where we bet on which show will Joss Whedon be a guest on when he finally snaps and puts a 9mm in his mouth and blows his capeshit-loving ugly head off his weak soy-addled body.

My friends think it will be The Tonight Show With Jimmy Fallon but I think it will be The Late Show With Stephen Colbert.

All I know is that when Whedon finally does does pop culture a favor and blows his brains out, the blood on the wall behind him will form the Disney logo because he's a corporate whore and a Marvel shill to the fucking end.

He'd go from directing a movie about Marvel superheroes to becoming the very first Marvel An Hero.

Robert Downey Jr. is already sick of doing these MCU films and already has a history of mental illness, violent behavior, and doing enough drugs to kill Charlie Sheen, so if Disney calls him up to do another MCU film (yes, I know what happens at the end of the newest Avengers flick*, but still), I'd imagine Robert Downey Jr. would snap like a disgruntled postal worker and go for the High Score like a fucking boss.

Video related.

[video=youtube;UhjHVQsJOlo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhjHVQsJOlo[/youtube]

Maybe if Disney pushes Robert Downey Jr. far enough, he'll do a fuckton of whiskey, PCP, and coke and then start punching the clock at Marvel HQ with an AR-15, pumping round after round into untalented SJW writers and greedy producers, and get his name on the leader boards. It will be tragic and I will miss ol' Bobby, but Hollywood's greed knows no bounds so I would not rule it out as a possibility

*-I saw Avengers End Game with this girl I've been seeing because we went on a date and she really wanted to see it.

I didn't like it at all, but I kept my mouth shut and had a good evening otherwise.

Doc, you're a nutter, but you've got a gonzo ranting style that has potential. You should explore whether comedy writing (or just crazy ranting) can become a paid gig for you. No, I'm not kidding.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085431I loved Alien 3 partly because of Hicks and Newt dying... it helped make the tragedy of Ripley and her death more intense.

I disagree, but please explain WHY.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085431Alien was claustrophobic body horror, Aliens was military action horror, and Alien 3 was a classical Gothic tragedy.

Agreed.

The Gothic angle was definitely a big part of Alien 3 with the religious cult and the flawed men seeking redemption, even if that redemption could only come in a noble death.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085431Alien Resurrection was still utter shit,

Beyond your hate for Whedon, please explain WHY.

I'm interested in your reasons compared to my own dislikes about the movie (most especially, the alien-human baby).

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085431I will never forgive him for Firefly

Again, explain WHY.

And you're right that Whedon is thot. He used his celebrity to get extra marital nookie, but let's not pretend that's not 24/7 in Hollywood and let's not pretend women hooking up with Joss didn't know he was married, or why they were hooking up with him. It takes two to tango.

Resurrection wasn't necessarily a bad SF movie, but it was a terrible Alien franchise movie. The crew of the Betty work as rpg characters, but they don't belong in the same fictional universe as the crew of the Nostromo.

Also, the humor in Resurrection was too broad and heavy handed. You can have comic relief in a horror/action movie without breaking the mood, just look at the character of Hudson in Aliens. I got too much of a "look at me being clever" vibe off of Resurrection. I'm not sure how much of that is due to Whedon (undoubtedly some) and how much came from the director.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1085380I keep Alien 3 canon in my setting because Ripley dead is easier. I don't like PCs meeting up with canon characters because it always gets too MarySue.

When I ran a Call of Cthulu ALIENS game based on the Dark Horse comics, Ripley died - right after she and the solo PC broke out of detention cells on the orbital station and broadcast a warning to Earth about what Weyland-Yutani was doing, they kissed, and were gunned down by the Weyland-Yutani security troops. It was tres cool.

This was years before ALIEN3.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1085378It was super lame and undercut the entire point of Aliens.

Much like the current Star Wars shitfests negating the sacrifices and achievements of the previous films.

I like Alien 3 (and I've seen the assembly cut) and I enjoyed Alien 4 because the crew are RPG PCs.

3 and 4 have issues, and are much weaker than 1 and 2, but I liked them more than not.


3 had a lot more potential, personally I think Ripley just finding herself in a life boat on the prison world without explanation would have been a more interesting set up. Maybe even a life boat from the Nostromo making one wonder if 2 even happened. Was it a hypersleep dream, or did someone remove Ripley from the Sulaco for some unexplained reason? then again, I'm not sure why Ripley even needs to be the center of further movies. She faced off with the Aliens twice and survived, even Arnold got to go home after beating the Predator.


The highlight of 4 for me is definitely the crew of the Betty, as you say totally PCs. The film has its moments, the aliens in the underwater scene were super creepy, and I love the scene where the aliens attack another alien to escape, and the horror of the scientist as he belatedly realizes what they are up to was awesome. Again, the presence of Ripley was not essential. It could have just as easily been an illegal science outpost studying the Alien species and performing horrific experiments. The hybrid alien human was kind of lame, but I will admit Alien / Ripley complete with acid blood was kind of cool.

Also bonus points for android Winona Ryder!

Quote from: Trond;1085428Even if stripped down, just running Phoenix Command gives you some RPG street-cred  

Phoenix Command gets some much undeserved hate, and is not as difficult as many think. It was a solid game for what it does, it is just overkill for 95% of games.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085431Joss Whedon is a thot.

I'm working on cranky old guy, so not up on all the latest lingo but I thought THOT was sort of a sideways complement. Maybe not a girl you take home to your parents, but one you definitely want to take home.


Also you might want to switch to decaf.

The lame attempts at witty humor and the hybrid freak thing at the end of Alien Resurrection ruined the movie for me, the fact that Whedon was responsible for it was merely insult to injury.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1085690The lame attempts at witty humor and the hybrid freak thing at the end of Alien Resurrection ruined the movie for me, the fact that Whedon was responsible for it was merely insult to injury.

I don't recall the humor but I do recall the ending was lame.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1085521Resurrection wasn't necessarily a bad SF movie, but it was a terrible Alien franchise movie. The crew of the Betty work as rpg characters, but they don't belong in the same fictional universe as the crew of the Nostromo.

True. The Nostromo crew were worn out space truckers and the Betty crew felt somewhat out of video game. I excuse it somewhat due to the 200 years later, and the Betty crew are talented criminals, not just a hapless crew of an ore freighter trying to make a living.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1085707True. The Nostromo crew were worn out space truckers and the Betty crew felt somewhat out of video game. I excuse it somewhat due to the 200 years later, and the Betty crew are talented criminals, not just a hapless crew of an ore freighter trying to make a living.

Exactly, the crew of a freighter vs gun runners or pirates. I think that is why the crew of the Betty feel so much like they came straight out of a Traveller game.