TheRPGSite

Just a reminder...

Quote from: RPGPundit;969372Hey!

You do NOT post about politics in threads on the main forum.

I don't get how this is hard to grasp?

People who are trying to turn a thread away from its original subject and toward political discussion will be assumed to either be seeking to politicize the discussion or to want to get the thread closed.

We will not be doing that. Instead, we will be punishing perpetrators. Be warned.

What provoked this post?

The Niven stuff.  It was a post about the author, asked, answered and probably done with, but newer posters might not be aware that the "Don't post politics in the Main Forum" rule got shifted up to technically a banning offense with multiple warnings given in the main forums that they may have missed because they are new.

Quote from: CRKrueger;991378The Niven stuff.  It was a post about the author, asked, answered and probably done with, but newer posters might not be aware that the "Don't post politics in the Main Forum" rule got shifted up to technically a banning offense with multiple warnings given in the main forums that they may have missed because they are new.

Bloody Niven, always shit posting.

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Well, I guess it's a good idea to remind people once in a while.  Note that no one will get banned if they're a total newbie here and do it as an honest mistake, as long as they don't continue to do it.

What about political statements in sigs?

Quote from: Ras Algethi;992332What about political statements in sigs?

I have Eppur Si Muove in my RPGnet sig. Subtle, eh? :D

Quote from: S'mon;992333I have Eppur Si Muove in my RPGnet sig. Subtle, eh? :D

Could be taken many ways.

But how can we avoid this when #ThePundit himself treats gaming as political with #TheSwine and #StoryGamers and such?

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;992383But how can we avoid this when #ThePundit himself treats gaming as political with #TheSwine and #StoryGamers and such?

Ignore him?

Quote from: RPGPundit;991983Well, I guess it's a good idea to remind people once in a while.  Note that no one will get banned if they're a total newbie here and do it as an honest mistake, as long as they don't continue to do it.

Which I really appreciate.  We all goof sometimes, but you wait until somebody has a good solid history of being a useless dickweasel with NOTHING to say before you smash them.

You CAN get banned here, but you really, really have to work hard at it, on purpose.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;992383But how can we avoid this when #ThePundit himself treats gaming as political with #TheSwine and #StoryGamers and such?

Plus, the whole SJW-slamming in game-related discussions that sounds a whole lot like dog whistling to one's bros-in-arms among the fascist set.:-)  I think that kind of stuff gets rationalized by it being specifically about world view and its effect on game content, which could make it a valid lens, but...there's times when it's obviously something else (or seems like it is).

All that aside, though, I can't recall seeing a great deal of any of that bullshit going on around here lately, on either side. We still have the same arguments with regards to gaming conceits, but the main board has had some great discussions of late (in the threads I'm following, at least). Kudos to everyone for that.

Quote from: Dumarest;992398Ignore him?

Ignore him, disregard his posts, shrug and move on, whatever.

Like, I was totally apathetic about the "Enworld Payola" thing -- as in, who gives a flying fuck at a rolling donut.  But then I realized it has an impact on some people's income, so yeah, it matters like hell to them even if I haven't bought a new gaming product since Kobolds Ate My Baby.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;992401...Kobolds Ate My Baby.

I'm so, so sorry to hear that.

FTR, I said I wouldn't mind seeing g a new edition of ringworld done and a known space add on egen think dislike the Creator,  Larry niven.  I was asked why I dislike niven and answered.

While I often disapprove of banning, I appreciate the push to keep politics out of the RPG forum and keep it only in Pundit's space. We had a run for a while where every thread here devolved into political sniping, and it sucked (in my opinion).

What about images of statues dedicated to the Nerdzerkers of the various Edition Wars?

Quote from: Dumarest;992398Ignore him?

Technically, you can't :p

Seriously though, it's not about being able to disregard one person, it's about being able to disregard an entire political ideology.

I wouldn't characterize the idea that games with OOC mechanics are different from games without them as a "political ideology". :D

Different, no. Destroyers Of Western Civilization? Yes.

Quote from: Voros;992947Different, no. Destroyers Of Western Civilization? Yes.

Feel free to show me where Ron Edwards was pointed to as the "Destroyer of Western Civilization".  I know narrative rpgers love to drape themselves in a cloak of persecution and victimhood on this site, but you might be protesting just a tad too much.

Also, I don't think the Pundit ever went so far as to have a Cam Banks moment where he declared that he would keep anyone out of the industry who disagreed with him.

Due to the political activist bent of many narrative rpg designers, there's certainly been some attempt to cross the streams with politics/gaming, but the "anti-swine" polemics have always looked to be more about separating the politics/gaming spheres, not integrating them and applying dogma.

"post-modernist Swine trying to take over traditional roleplaying" isn't espousing a political ideology unless you're one of the morons for whom "everything is political", but I thought the last of those ragequit.

Well it is probably in the swamps of the Pundency, where last I checked the search engine was turned off for some reason, but I recall Pundit saying that Jason Moringstar's anti-heroic games were out to subvert the values and greatness of Western Civilization.

I'll see if I can locate it but if it is in Pundency it is near hopeless.

Quote from: CRKrueger;992955Due to the political activist bent of many narrative rpg designers, there's certainly been some attempt to cross the streams with politics/gaming, but the "anti-swine" polemics have always looked to be more about separating the politics/gaming spheres, not integrating them and applying dogma.

"post-modernist Swine trying to take over traditional roleplaying" isn't espousing a political ideology unless you're one of the morons for whom "everything is political", but I thought the last of those ragequit.

Is being extremely anti "post-moderist" a political position? A philosophical position? Both?

I suppose I can see how someone might find it hard to separate the Pundit's rants about post-modernism in game design from his other rantings about post-moderism. Though, personally I'd assign anti-post moderism as a philosophical position. And even though I find the post-modern writings I've read to be inferior to the more sophisticated sophistry of the pre-Socratics I generally find Pundit's politics to be equally crack-brained (though in a different direction) from the post moderists.

Quote from: CRKrueger;992955Also, I don't think the Pundit ever went so far as to have a Cam Banks moment where he declared that he would keep anyone out of the industry who disagreed with him.

I don't think Cam Banks ever went so far as that either.

Quote from: Bren;992963Is being extremely anti "post-moderist" a political position? A philosophical position? Both?

I suppose I can see how someone might find it hard to separate the Pundit's rants about post-modernism in game design from his other rantings about post-moderism. Though, personally I'd assign anti-post moderism as a philosophical position. And even though I find the post-modern writings I've read to be inferior to the more sophisticated sophistry of the pre-Socratics I generally find Pundit's politics to be equally crack-brained (though in a different direction) from the post moderists.

I doubt many of the game designers Pundit hates are actual post-modernists in any real sense. Of course the term itself, like many philosophical terms is hard to pin down.

Quote from: Voros;992976I doubt many of the game designers Pundit hates are actual post-modernists in any real sense. Of course the term itself, like many philosophical terms is hard to pin down.

I think the difficulty of pinning down postmodernism is a consequence of it's subjectivity. That and I get the sense that more than a few postmodernists intentionally try to obscure rather than to clarify meaning. That or they just don't know what they are talking about...or why they are talking about it...or even whether "it" means anything.

It is also because many disparate thinkers and artists get thrown under the postmodernist label. The only thing less clear than postmodernism is what people mean by modernism itself.

Quote from: CRKrueger;992955Due to the political activist bent of many narrative rpg designers, there's certainly been some attempt to cross the streams with politics/gaming, but the "anti-swine" polemics have always looked to be more about separating the politics/gaming spheres, not integrating them and applying dogma.

   Besides, it's tough to conflate 'pro-trad RPG/anti-narrative' and 'anti-SJW' when the two biggest players in the traditional RPG market--Paizo and WotC--have strong SJW leanings. :)

Quote from: Voros;992982It is also because many disparate thinkers and artists get thrown under the postmodernist label. The only thing less clear than postmodernism is what people mean by modernism itself.

   My Extreme Oversimplification That Should Be Taken As Seriously As This Post Suggests:
 
   Pre-Modernity/Traditional Western Thought: There is a God, and I am not Him.
   Modernism: There is no God, and we are not Him.
   Postmodernism: There is no God, and We are Him/Her/It.

  :D

We're OT but I don't think there's a ban on philosophy on the main forum. :D

But what about the postmodern 'turn to religion' by Lyotard and Derrida? I haven't read those books yet but it seems some 'postmodernists' ended up embracing religious mysticism later in life. Zizek is another example with his religious writing. That would help explain the often obscure meaning in their writing. Hence why it is hard to generalize about a range of writers/thinkers.

Quote from: Voros;992982It is also because many disparate thinkers and artists get thrown under the postmodernist label. The only thing less clear than postmodernism is what people mean by modernism itself.

Probably because what is postmodern today is a reaction to what was modern by the millennium shift, and what was modern then was postmodern in the 90s, and THAT was a reaction to what was modern in the 70s and postmodern in the 90s .....
So, the postmodern today is actually post-post-postmodern, mixed and conflated with what's post-postmodern and actual postmodern from the 80s.
:p

Quote from: CRKrueger;992955I know narrative rpgers love to drape themselves in a cloak of persecution and victimhood [strike]on this site[/strike] everywhere, all the time . . .

Fixed that for you.

Quote from: CRKrueger;992955. . . unless you're one of the morons for whom "everything is political", but I thought the last of those ragequit.

The bucket may be empty now, but the well is deep.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;992990My Extreme Oversimplification That Should Be Taken As Seriously As This Post Suggests

Sure, sure you religious guys want to include the Deists when it suits you and exclude them when it doesn't. :p My version is just as serious as yours AC, but shorter.*

   Modernism is anything newer than old stuff and prior to post-modernism.


* So by Occam's Razor I win. Occam having been a Franciscan Friar you must accept the criteria.

"Begins singing New Guys don't wanna get banned" in the vein of Cyndi Lauper's Girls just want to have fun.

It's a slow Saturday and yes I'm that bored.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;992968I don't think Cam Banks ever went so far as that either.

On the subject of the narrative and definition of GameGate, he was pretty clear...

Quote from: Cam BanksThere's some new push by a couple of idiots to promote a Tabletop version of the GG hashtag on Twitter and other places.

DO NOT USE THIS HASHTAG. Do not legitimize these morons with their anti-feminist anti-social justice anti-equity bullshit. They are trying to ride the coattails of an already toxic and patently ridiculous crusade in video games to shine attention on things they don't like.

Also, if you're involved in trying to push this new thing out there, I don't think I can make it any more plain: no legitimate tabletop RPG publisher, designer, or developer is going to put up with this crap from you. You are a sad, sad little person.

PS: I have a degree in ethics, so don't even start with me.

Quote from: CRKrueger;993042On the subject of the narrative and definition of GameGate, he was pretty clear...

And you think this is the same thing as keeping people out of the industry that don't agree with you?

Nice sureshot. But "New Guys don't wanna get banned" scans better.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;993044And you think this is the same thing as keeping people out of the industry that don't agree with you?

It's a pretty clear implied threat:  attempt to bring Gamergate here and the industry will respond with blacklisting.
On that topic, yes, he crossed that line, in simple English. You may have a different opinion, one that I'm sure has nothing to do with your agreement with what Cam would say about GG.  As Gamergate itself is a topic that's not allowed in this particular forum, I think there's little to go further except to say you probably disagree on what he actually meant.

Quote from: Bren;993045Nice sureshot. But "New Guys don't wanna get banned" scans better.

Unsure of your meaning.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;992990My Extreme Oversimplification That Should Be Taken As Seriously As This Post Suggests:
 
   Pre-Modernity/Traditional Western Thought: There is a God, and I am not Him.
   Modernism: There is no God, and we are not Him.
   Postmodernism: There is no God, and We are Him/Her/It.

  :D

You missed Millenialist Western Thought: We are gods, why doesn't anyone great treat us as such?

Quote from: CRKrueger;993065It's a pretty clear implied threat:  attempt to bring Gamergate here and the industry will respond with blacklisting.
On that topic, yes, he crossed that line, in simple English.

Nothing implied in it.

He says 'don't use this hashtag' and points out that 'no legitimate tabletop RPG publisher, designer, or developer is going to put up with this crap from you'.

That's not a threat of blacklisting or 'keeping people out of the industry that don't agree with you'. That is saying 'you guys suck, so fuck off!'.

Quote from: Dumarest;993068You missed Millenialist Western Thought: We are gods, why doesn't anyone great treat us as such?

That's what you get when postmodern True Believers run into ... well, just about anyone else. :)

Quote from: TrippyHippy;993070That's not a threat of blacklisting or 'keeping people out of the industry that don't agree with you'. That is saying 'you guys suck, so fuck off!'.

Although that bit about a degree in ethics does feel a bit like an appeal to authority.

But I'm far from objective on this point--Banks and I spent years jousting about our divergent approaches to Dragonlance. :)

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;993077Although that bit about a degree in ethics does feel a bit like an appeal to authority.

Actually, it read more like "Don't even START with me" to me.  Like, "I will make your silly arguments look truly silly."

Sort of like my brother in law once trying to insist that "feudalism" meant "no use of currency."  Um... I have a BA in medieval history, douche for brains.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;993081Actually, it read more like "Don't even START with me" to me.  Like, "I will make your silly arguments look truly silly."

Sort of like my brother in law once trying to insist that "feudalism" meant "no use of currency."  Um... I have a BA in medieval history, douche for brains.

Wait, did you just say you have a douche for brains as well as a B.A. in medieval history? :p

Quote from: CRKrueger;993067Unsure of your meaning.

Well that's weird. I would have sworn he had an extra word in between "Guys" and "don't" so that the syllables didn't match the original. But it appears not. My bad.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;993081Sort of like my brother in law once trying to insist that "feudalism" meant "no use of currency."  Um... I have a BA in medieval history, douche for brains.

Ah, so you're saying currency was commonly used in the medieval manor economy.

Seven beers.  Well done.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;993070That is saying 'you guys suck, so fuck off!'.

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Quote from: Voros;993119[ATTACH=CONFIG]1629[/ATTACH]

That unintentionally says "Nazi Fuck Punks Off Dead Kennedys."

Quote from: Dumarest;993183That unintentionally says "Nazi Fuck Punks Off Dead Kennedys."

Turning Japanese I think you're turning Japanese I really think so...

Quote from: Skarg;993186Turning Japanese I think you're turning Japanese I really think so...

We're sure not reading left to right: "Nazi Punks Dead Fuck Off Kennedys."

This thread is getting way too outside of gaming.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;993194This thread is getting way too outside of gaming.

Except for the part where I won another beer...oh hang on a minute. :D

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;993194This thread is getting way too outside of gaming.

Read the thread title: it never was about games.

Quote from: Dumarest;993205Read the thread title: it never was about games.

The thread is a reminder not to talk politics in the main forum, not a license to do so.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;993206The thread is a reminder not to talk politics in the main forum, not a license to do so.

Well, I was talking about grammar myself.

Quote from: Dumarest;993215Well, I was talking about grammar myself.

You know what I mean.

Quote from: Cam Banks"PS: I have a degree in ethics, so don't even start with me."

I used to have a player who was a Lecturer in Ethics. My impression was that professional Ethicists are the last people I would want to decide about any moral question.

Quote from: S'mon;993226I used to have a player who was a Lecturer in Ethics. My impression was that professional Ethicists are the last people I would want to decide about any moral question.

That's the equivalent of saying "I used to have a player who was a Lecturer in Business. My impression was that professional Businessmen are the last people I would want to decide about any business question."

Quote from: Bren;993232That's the equivalent of saying "I used to have a player who was a Lecturer in Business. My impression was that professional Businessmen are the last people I would want to decide about any business question."

My impression of the profession of Ethics Lecturer, I meant - the lady herself is very cool.

Quote from: Dumarest;993183That unintentionally says "Nazi Fuck Punks Off Dead Kennedys."

Reminds me of the 'hate fuck' thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?23007-Arabian-Nights-Fate-Hack).

Yeah, what Brendan said. This isn't a thread for talking about politics.

Quote from: Bren;993094Well that's weird. I would have sworn he had an extra word in between "Guys" and "don't" so that the syllables didn't match the original. But it appears not. My bad.

You aren't mad, Bren! OP was as follows:

"Begins singing New Guys don't wanna get banned" in the vein of Cyndi Lauper's Girls just want to have fun.

Note placement of quotes indicates the lyrics are "Begins singing New Guys don't wanna get banned", not "New Guys don't wanna get banned"...

Why yes! I am a pedant! How did you know? ;D

Quote from: Bren;993036* So by Occam's Razor I win. Occam having been a Franciscan Friar you must accept the criteria.

Sorry, as a student of Aquinas I resent Ockham as the Father of Nominalism. :)