While I often disapprove of banning, I appreciate the push to keep politics out of the RPG forum and keep it only in Pundit's space. We had a run for a while where every thread here devolved into political sniping, and it sucked (in my opinion).

What about images of statues dedicated to the Nerdzerkers of the various Edition Wars?

Quote from: Dumarest;992398Ignore him?

Technically, you can't

Seriously though, it's not about being able to disregard one person, it's about being able to disregard an entire political ideology.

I wouldn't characterize the idea that games with OOC mechanics are different from games without them as a "political ideology".

Different, no. Destroyers Of Western Civilization? Yes.

Quote from: Voros;992947Different, no. Destroyers Of Western Civilization? Yes.

Feel free to show me where Ron Edwards was pointed to as the "Destroyer of Western Civilization".  I know narrative rpgers love to drape themselves in a cloak of persecution and victimhood on this site, but you might be protesting just a tad too much.

Also, I don't think the Pundit ever went so far as to have a Cam Banks moment where he declared that he would keep anyone out of the industry who disagreed with him.

Due to the political activist bent of many narrative rpg designers, there's certainly been some attempt to cross the streams with politics/gaming, but the "anti-swine" polemics have always looked to be more about separating the politics/gaming spheres, not integrating them and applying dogma.

"post-modernist Swine trying to take over traditional roleplaying" isn't espousing a political ideology unless you're one of the morons for whom "everything is political", but I thought the last of those ragequit.

Well it is probably in the swamps of the Pundency, where last I checked the search engine was turned off for some reason, but I recall Pundit saying that Jason Moringstar's anti-heroic games were out to subvert the values and greatness of Western Civilization.

I'll see if I can locate it but if it is in Pundency it is near hopeless.

Quote from: CRKrueger;992955Due to the political activist bent of many narrative rpg designers, there's certainly been some attempt to cross the streams with politics/gaming, but the "anti-swine" polemics have always looked to be more about separating the politics/gaming spheres, not integrating them and applying dogma.

"post-modernist Swine trying to take over traditional roleplaying" isn't espousing a political ideology unless you're one of the morons for whom "everything is political", but I thought the last of those ragequit.

Is being extremely anti "post-moderist" a political position? A philosophical position? Both?

I suppose I can see how someone might find it hard to separate the Pundit's rants about post-modernism in game design from his other rantings about post-moderism. Though, personally I'd assign anti-post moderism as a philosophical position. And even though I find the post-modern writings I've read to be inferior to the more sophisticated sophistry of the pre-Socratics I generally find Pundit's politics to be equally crack-brained (though in a different direction) from the post moderists.

Quote from: CRKrueger;992955Also, I don't think the Pundit ever went so far as to have a Cam Banks moment where he declared that he would keep anyone out of the industry who disagreed with him.

I don't think Cam Banks ever went so far as that either.

Quote from: Bren;992963Is being extremely anti "post-moderist" a political position? A philosophical position? Both?

I suppose I can see how someone might find it hard to separate the Pundit's rants about post-modernism in game design from his other rantings about post-moderism. Though, personally I'd assign anti-post moderism as a philosophical position. And even though I find the post-modern writings I've read to be inferior to the more sophisticated sophistry of the pre-Socratics I generally find Pundit's politics to be equally crack-brained (though in a different direction) from the post moderists.

I doubt many of the game designers Pundit hates are actual post-modernists in any real sense. Of course the term itself, like many philosophical terms is hard to pin down.

Quote from: Voros;992976I doubt many of the game designers Pundit hates are actual post-modernists in any real sense. Of course the term itself, like many philosophical terms is hard to pin down.

I think the difficulty of pinning down postmodernism is a consequence of it's subjectivity. That and I get the sense that more than a few postmodernists intentionally try to obscure rather than to clarify meaning. That or they just don't know what they are talking about...or why they are talking about it...or even whether "it" means anything.

It is also because many disparate thinkers and artists get thrown under the postmodernist label. The only thing less clear than postmodernism is what people mean by modernism itself.

Quote from: CRKrueger;992955Due to the political activist bent of many narrative rpg designers, there's certainly been some attempt to cross the streams with politics/gaming, but the "anti-swine" polemics have always looked to be more about separating the politics/gaming spheres, not integrating them and applying dogma.

   Besides, it's tough to conflate 'pro-trad RPG/anti-narrative' and 'anti-SJW' when the two biggest players in the traditional RPG market--Paizo and WotC--have strong SJW leanings.

Quote from: Voros;992982It is also because many disparate thinkers and artists get thrown under the postmodernist label. The only thing less clear than postmodernism is what people mean by modernism itself.

   My Extreme Oversimplification That Should Be Taken As Seriously As This Post Suggests:
 
   Pre-Modernity/Traditional Western Thought: There is a God, and I am not Him.
   Modernism: There is no God, and we are not Him.
   Postmodernism: There is no God, and We are Him/Her/It.

 

We're OT but I don't think there's a ban on philosophy on the main forum.

But what about the postmodern 'turn to religion' by Lyotard and Derrida? I haven't read those books yet but it seems some 'postmodernists' ended up embracing religious mysticism later in life. Zizek is another example with his religious writing. That would help explain the often obscure meaning in their writing. Hence why it is hard to generalize about a range of writers/thinkers.