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Just checked out the playtest (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8igw) document for Pathfinder's upcoming "Ultimate Combat (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8ies)" splatbook.

Wonder how this new "gunslinger" class will go over, assuming gunslingers are not restricted to the gun-toting state of Alkenstar (http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Alkenstar) in Pathfinder's official campaign setting (Golarion).

There's even some recent Ed Greenwood authored Pathfinder fiction about gun toting characters from Alkenstar.

http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/pathfinder/tales/serial


Will the fantasy "purists" or "traditionalists" outright reject this gunslinger class?

Or will the Pathfinder fanboys wholeheartedly embrace the gunslinger?

Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat... I guess we know the name of the splat series, now.

Quote from: Benoist;435252Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat... I guess we know the name of the splat series, now.

Wonder how long this splat series will go on for.

Some Paizo officials have been asserting that after "Ultimate Combat", they don't have any more ideas for any new full classes at the present time.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8ies/discuss&page=4#199

Quote from: Vic WertzWe honestly don't have a lot of things after these three classes that we feel need to be treated as full classes (at least, not without being hooked up to significantly new mechanical concepts such as psionics). I'm not promising we won't *ever* do more classes after this—we certainly reserve that right—but we don't currently have concrete plans for *any* new classes after Ultimate Combat.

It sounds like PR spin, most likely to reassure Pathfinder fanboys that they aren't going to go into splatbook overdrive, like what happened during the d20 glut (ie. such as the infamous Mongoose Quintessential series of splatbooks, etc ...).

I don't have a chance to give it a good look since I'm at work, but considering that the Gun Mage is an outstanding character class from the d20 Iron Kingdoms then I'll give the Gunslinger a try and see if it works.

What would be hilarious is if Mongoose revived their Quintessential splatbook series but redone for Pathfinder, where they made a "Quintessential Gunslinger" book.  :D

The same stuff repackaged and resold all over again, in other words.

Not that it's anything original when talking about RPG publications, mind you.

So does that mean they're also HERO compatible?  :D

Some of the upcoming Pathfinder titles such as:

- Faiths of Purity
- Faiths of Balance
- Humans of Golarion

http://paizo.com/pathfinder/companion

may very well appear to be veering into "Mongoose" or "d20 glut" style territory.  (The impact is probably minimal filler, in the form of 32 page books).

(Rumored to be in production after June 2011, is a "Goblins of Golarion" companion book).

If this turns out to be the case, it seems like they're running out of ideas and cranking out more titles on more marginal topics.

That's what I like about adventure modules, as opposed to splats, see: at least, even if the subject matter is super classic, there'll be some component, some NPC, some monster, or situation, or room dressing or whatnot, that's going to be original in there (hopefully). And that will make my game better as a result, as a source of inspiration, at least.

Now, supplements like Ultimate/Complete/whatnot, I don't a shit about those anymore.

As a knee-jerk reaction, I would probably be inclined to ban the gunslinger class at first, if I was DMing my own Pathfinder game using a very generic fantasy setting (ie. an FR type clone).

But if the players have something compelling they're looking for, I may reconsider.

They should remember their own history and realize why they are still around and 3.0/3.5 is out of print.  Pathfinder is built on the adventure paths.  They need more Kingmaker, less Ultimate X.

Quote from: ggroy;435257It sounds like PR spin, most likely to reassure Pathfinder fanboys that they aren't going to go into splatbook overdrive...

Going into? How many splatbooks do you need to produce a year to be in overdrive already?

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;435271Going into? How many splatbooks do you need to produce a year to be in overdrive already?

Stuff like a splatbook for every single class.  What I was thinking of, was something like the Mongoose Quintessentials series of splatbooks during the d20 glut era.

Quote from: ggroy;435272Stuff like a splatbook for every single class.  What I was thinking of, was something like the Mongoose Quintessentials series of splatbooks during the d20 glut era.

But I really liked a number of them. The first Monk book was awesome.

Quote from: Tetsubo;435305The first Monk book was awesome.

God's balls, they did more than one Monk splat?

Quote from: CRKrueger;435270They should remember their own history and realize why they are still around and 3.0/3.5 is out of print.  Pathfinder is built on the adventure paths.  They need more Kingmaker, less Ultimate X.

Hear, hear.

Problem is, quite a few reports I've read from industry pros (notably the classic post-Hasbro buyout WotC "fairy tale" essay) suggest that crunch sells. And if the fanboys buy it, they will publish it, and keep publishing it, until the inevitable collapse of the game system.

And then there will be a new edition. And an edition war. And so on, and so forth. It's Mircea Eliade's "terror of the Eternal Return" in RPG form.

Quote from: ggroy;435251There's even some recent Ed Greenwood authored Pathfinder fiction about gun toting characters from Alkenstar.
 
http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/pathfinder/tales/serial
 
 

Wait, they're letting Greenwood write for them?  I guess things rally have gone to crap in Paizoland.

Quote from: The Butcher;435337Problem is, quite a few reports I've read from industry pros (notably the classic post-Hasbro buyout WotC "fairy tale" essay) suggest that crunch sells.

I think that piece of common wisdom is bullshit.

It's obvious that rules supplements will sell more than shitty modules. The real problem isn't that adventures don't sell, it's that shitty adventures don't sell. My personal solution? Don't publish shitty adventures in the first place. Publish good ones instead. Paizo is in the position of doing this, and is doing it, for those that care about Paizo's particular brand of adventures (adventure paths, encounter-heavy yet atmospheric scenarios and such).

Quote from: The_Shadow;435309God's balls, they did more than one Monk splat?

Yeah. There were two of them, spaced out over a number of years. I wrote the first one, had absolutely nothing to do with the second.

The Quintessential II books were... problematic, to be charitable. The editorial mandates for the Quint II series were overly restrictive, and the books eminently forgettable.

Oh, and they had to be written in one month each. 128 pages of finished design, in the space of a month. Not a recipe for success.

Quote from: Benoist;435342I think that piece of common wisdom is bullshit.

It's obvious that rules supplements will sell more than shitty modules. The real problem isn't that adventures don't sell, it's that shitty adventures don't sell. My personal solution? Don't publish shitty adventures in the first place. Publish good ones instead. Paizo is in the position of doing this, and is doing it, for those that care about Paizo's particular brand of adventures (adventure paths, encounter-heavy yet atmospheric scenarios and such).

Agreed....4e would have gone further with better adventures from the gate. KoTS did as much to crush the rules set as skill challenges.

Where is my Masks of Nyarlathotep for D&D?

Firstly I tend to trust Paizo's idealogy which is thus: We gear ourselves towards a self sustaining publishing house with our Pathfinder Adventure Paths, the Pathfinder RPG, and the Campaign suppliments. In that order. Do I think there will be more Lords of Darkness? Yes. Do I think they'll do detail on the Asian Lands of Golorian? Yes. Do I think they'll do Ultimate Anime? Not in 2011 but maybe later down the road. I don't think, at least when it comes to Pathfinder RPG the HARDCOVERS (which is what Ultimate Magic, Advanced Player's Guide, and Ultimate Combat are) there will be one every month or even one every three months. One every 4 or 5 seems to be about the norm. Consider this: Ultimate Magic comes out in April, its predecessor was released in November/December of last year. Will they do more hardcover monster releases? More likely than more "splat" books certainly. Why? Because we all know honestly EVERYONE, (players, GMs, even the novices) love them some monsters. Even if they never get used, there will be at least one or three people will be like "HOLY CRAP!!!" But in terms of more Ultimate Guides...I honestly don't see any more in 2011.

Quote from: Patrick Y.;435343Yeah. There were two of them, spaced out over a number of years. I wrote the first one, had absolutely nothing to do with the second.

The Quintessential II books were... problematic, to be charitable. The editorial mandates for the Quint II series were overly restrictive, and the books eminently forgettable.

Oh, and they had to be written in one month each. 128 pages of finished design, in the space of a month. Not a recipe for success.

Well, thank you for the first book. It is one of my favorites from that era.

If anyone enjoys Guns in Fantasy, I highly suggest picking up Iron Kingdoms.  The Gun Mage had tremendous flavor, great roleplay hooks, and was mechanically interesting.   And I don't enjoy 3e.

Quote from: The Butcher;435337Problem is, quite a few reports I've read from industry pros (notably the classic post-Hasbro buyout WotC "fairy tale" essay) suggest that crunch sells. And if the fanboys buy it, they will publish it, and keep publishing it, until the inevitable collapse of the game system.

This does seem to be the most successful business model in gaming.  If you look at the Survivors - WoD, Shadowrun, D&D, Warhammer - its all selling crunch upon crunch to fanboys until its time to flip editions.

Or in Palladium's case, appease the fanboys by not changing editions and keep giving them splat upon splat upon splat, each with a mix of fluff and crunch.

Quote from: Benoist;435342I think that piece of common wisdom is bullshit.

The game store shelves say otherwise.

Quote from: Benoist;435357Where is my Masks of Nyarlathotep for D&D?

Temple of Elemental Evil?

A1-A4 Slave Lord series?

The Rod of Seven Parts box set?  (never played it)

Quote from: Spinachcat;435384The game store shelves say otherwise.

Because it's a popular piece of bullshit common wisdom. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Spinachcat;435384Temple of Elemental Evil?

A1-A4 Slave Lord series?

The Rod of Seven Parts box set?  (never played it)

Stuff that 20 years old, then. Besides, this is not what I actually meant.

But thanks for the one-liners anyway.

I think he thought you were talking about D&D...but I bet you were talking about 4e.

So much unnecessary confusion.

Quote from: ggroy;435263Some of the upcoming Pathfinder titles such as:

- Faiths of Purity
- Faiths of Balance
- Humans of Golarion

http://paizo.com/pathfinder/companion

may very well appear to be veering into "Mongoose" or "d20 glut" style territory.  (The impact is probably minimal filler, in the form of 32 page books).

(Rumored to be in production after June 2011, is a "Goblins of Golarion" companion book).

If this turns out to be the case, it seems like they're running out of ideas and cranking out more titles on more marginal topics.

I'd point out that all of those titles are in the Companion line, which is player oriented, yes, but campaign setting-specific material.  It's not part of the RPG line-up, and not targeted at that market.

I'm sure others have differing opinions, but I don't consider anything in the Adventure Path, Modules, Chronicles/Campaign Setting or Companion line to be "splat", as those lines all existed before they spun-up the RPG line.  If Paizo had never published the Pathfinder RPG, those lines and books would still exist today for whatever rules system they chose to publish for.

The RPG line itself is fairly small.  Since 8/2009, they've published the core rulebook, the APG, the GMG and two Bestiaries.  Two books in 2009, 2 in 2010, and it looks like 3 or maybe 4 in 2011 (assuming a possible Bestiary 3).

Pathfinder hasn't overwhelmed anyone with the number of core (or otherwise) books. Compared to 4e, any RPG line looks thin (besides 3e).

I'm interested in picking up Bestiary 2. Not sure about the Ultimate line, but some of the classes look interesting.

I really liked Bestiary 2. It had a good mix of new, old and some revised monsters too.

Quote from: Benoist;435342Don't publish shitty adventures in the first place. Publish good ones instead. Paizo is in the position of doing this, and is doing it, for those that care about Paizo's particular brand of adventures (adventure paths, encounter-heavy yet atmospheric scenarios and such).

So far I've found most of the Pathfinder modules (http://paizo.com/pathfinder/modules) to be kind of on the mundane meh side.  Not particularly memorable for the most part.

I found the monthly Pathfinder Adventure Path books to be a somewhat better read, but not something I would want to run from beginning to end through a six book adventure path over several months (or years).

At the present time, I find the cheesy Pathfinder fiction novels (http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/pathfinder/tales) to be just as good of a read, as the monthly Pathfinder Adventure Path books.  (I don't need all the 3.5/PF crunch stats to tell me what's going on).

Funny I found the recent offerings (at least with Godsmouth Hersey and Witchwar Legacy) pretty good.

As for the APs, I honestly think they are what sells the best for people. The adventures in them might not appeal to EVERYONE but they do have a much broader appeal for the groups I'm in. (I've run Curse of the Crimson Throne to much delight. I'm currently playing Second Darkness and enjoying it enough. I am looking forward to running either Carrion Crown or else Kingmaker when Second Darkness finishes up.)

Quote from: Nightfall;435439Funny I found the recent offerings (at least with Godsmouth Hersey and Witchwar Legacy) pretty good.

I haven't picked up these two.

Well... you should. :P :)

When 3.0 came out, WotC thought that adventure modules weren't profitable and so reduced the number they made to let some other poor sucker pick up the slack. Then they became popular again, but they had got rid of their module writers and were playing catch-up.

I suspect, but can't prove, that modules became popular as more people began to game online casually.

Uhm I actually think it had more to do with the fact Dungeon had better modules than most others. But I could be wrong. :P

I stopped picking up the Pathfinder modules quite awhile ago.

At this point, I'll most likely be jumping off the monthly Pathfinder AP treadmill after the present "Serpent's Skull" AP is finished in a month or so. The next AP "Carrion Crown", looks too Ravenloft-ish.  (I was never really a huge fan of Ravenloft).

Other than that, the only other major Pathfinder title I still want to pick up is the Inner Sea map folio.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;435446I suspect, but can't prove, that modules became popular as more people began to game online casually.

Could you elaborate more on this point?

Quote from: Nightfall;435447Uhm I actually think it had more to do with the fact Dungeon had better modules than most others.

The main reason why I was picking up the Pathfinder AP books every month for the last several years, is largely due to my previous fondness (and weakness) for Dungeon Magazine.

Well they're why I still follow Paizo, Ggroy.

While I admit to a fondness towards horror campaigns (and certainly Ravenloft), what I think makes Carrion Crown stand out isn't the horror aspect. It's more about the fact this revolves around a REALLY major villain. Serpent's Skull was/is more about a race (much like Second Darkness) This is why I want to run it more so than Kingmaker. (Though admittedly Kingmaker's uber villain is pretty interesting too.)

I'll have a few more from Campaign Setting for sure but mostly it will be on a pretty limited basis. (IE what I can actually afford)

Lately I've been reading the two already released Pathfinder novels.

Previously, I never really liked reading rpg setting based novels.  (The last time I read any D&D novels, was back in the 1980's.  Even back then, I thought they were kinda crappy).

At the present time, I'm not playing in any rpg games (online or offline).  My previous 4E Encounters game (at a nearby gaming store) abruptly died last month.

Less motivation at this point to spend any cash on new rpg books, modules, etc ..., which will most likely end up sitting on my bookshelves collecting dust.

I'd invite you to join our group...but we past the 8 player mark some time ago. However there's always room to DM! ;) If you want to make the effort to travel to Morgantown, West Virginia, USA for a Sunday afternoon....

Quote from: Nightfall;435458I'd invite you to join our group...but we past the 8 player mark some time ago. However there's always room to DM! ;) If you want to make the effort to travel to Morgantown, West Virginia, USA for a Sunday afternoon....

Thanks for the offer.  I'm too far away from WV.  ;)

Lately I've looked into other activities to replace my previous regular rpg games, such as trying out some old D&D style video games and finding them to be somewhat mundane or boring.

I posted a thread on this, in another section on this site.

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=19288

My advice? Go on Facebook to try something there. That doesn't work out, you can always play Facebook games. :P :)

Quote from: Nightfall;435460My advice? Go on Facebook to try something there. That doesn't work out, you can always play Facebook games. :P :)

Did that awhile ago.  Got kinda boring after awhile.  Ended up dropping the account.

Well that's how my current group has worked out...kind of. Course I had to pay for meetup.com to start it out...and then it went to facebook. Paying for a subscription sucked.

Perhaps I should be looking for a new hobby, besides rpg games, video games, reading novels, etc ...

You could always be a professional foodie...

Quote from: Nightfall;435464You could always be a professional foodie...

Not really my thing.  ;)

Professional alcoholic?

Quote from: Nightfall;435467Professional alcoholic?

Been there, done that.  That was 20-25+ years ago, back in college.  ;)

Then I'm officially out of ideas. :P

Quote from: Nightfall;435470Then I'm officially out of ideas. :P

I suppose I could understand why some guys around my age, end up suddenly blowing a lot of cash on a Ferrari and/or suddenly going on a trip with no destination.  Mid-life crisis is a bitch.  :pundit:

Yeah. Everyone took a Drunken Master level or ten back in college...

I prefer a trip to a destination....and generally closer to like...Japan.

Ben,

I waited until after college to test mine out. :P

Quote from: Nightfall;435473I prefer a trip to a destination....and generally closer to like...Japan.

I did the "trip without a destination" thing decades ago.  It probably wouldn't be as exciting for me now, compared to when I was younger.

Quote from: Nightfall;435473Ben,

I waited until after college to test mine out. :P

Spending too much time at too many happy hours.  :D

Quote from: Benoist;435472Yeah. Everyone took a Drunken Master level or ten back in college...

For sure.

Some people ended up going off the deep end, such as developing a cocaine/crack or meth habit, when heavy drinking wasn't exciting for them anymore.

Quote from: ggroy;435476For sure.

Some people ended up going off the deep end, such as developing a cocaine/crack or meth habit, when heavy drinking wasn't exciting for them anymore.

Sure. Just like others grew up and out of it.

Quote from: ggroy;435451Could you elaborate more on this point?

My impression has been that a higher proportion of online games seem to use modules than offline games.

I suspect this is because online games, with their slower pace and shorter sessions, are easier to use modules with. The DM has more time to think things through and adapt the module to fit the actions of the PCs. IRL, every module game I've ever played has had some moment where we've suddenly veered off the rails and the DM has basically had to set it aside until we get back to it.

As well, modules are a useful structure in slower games because you can lose the thread of the action overall. Because things go so slowly, it's useful to be able to have a premade reference document that already has everything laid out.

These aren't hard and fast rules, just attempts to explain an impression I've developed from reading a bunch of different sites talking about online gaming (/tg especially).

Quote from: Nightfall;435447Uhm I actually think it had more to do with the fact Dungeon had better modules than most others. But I could be wrong. :P

I was never super-wowed by them, but I'm anti-module.