The GURPS Trav is one of those Aramis would wail about being non-"canon", Koltar.

What the fuck happened to bring you here to whine, Aramis? Did Supplement4, Whipsnade and the other bitter non-gamers get themselves banned from CotI or something and you were worried you were next?

Start a thread telling us about your campaign and all the fun shit everyone's done in it. I'm sick of hearing what fans hate, I want to hear what they love. Otherwise, go blow another fifty bucks for the privilege of editing Marc Miller's work and stop bothering us with this nonsense.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;309113The GURPS Trav is one of those Aramis would wail about being non-"canon", Koltar.

What the fuck happened to bring you here to whine, Aramis? Did Supplement4, Whipsnade and the other bitter non-gamers get themselves banned from CotI or something and you were worried you were next?

Start a thread telling us about your campaign and all the fun shit everyone's done in it. I'm sick of hearing what fans hate, I want to hear what they love. Otherwise, go blow another fifty bucks for the privilege of editing Marc Miller's work and stop bothering us with this nonsense.

Who the hell are you? The thread police? You didn't have read this thread.

Quote from: aramis;309049Actually, they implied a lot about the setting, by virtue of elements of character generation, system generation, and trade rules.

And by 79, a nascent setting was emerging in the expansions.

True. I meant "no setting beyond that implied by the rules".

Quote from: The_Shadow;309089If "we feel it's more fun this way" was not a legitimate reason to make changes to a game, we'd be stuck with OD&D as Gary typed it out in 1973.

Stuck? STUCK? I seem to hear a rumbling in the earth, as of a hundred men running to their keyboards at once...

But yeah, 'making it more fun' is surely the only reason to change a game, although the problem is that it's very subjective.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;309043:thanx:

You are most excellent, sir. We must meet for bevvies some time. It helps if you reply to your emails!

Sorry about that! I can't find one from Kyle Aaron in any of my folders. Maybe send me a PM instead?

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;309123Who the hell are you? The thread police? You didn't have read this thread.

Police stop things from happening, they don't make them happen.

Much more than I want Aramis to stop producing bullshit, I want him to start producing something good and useful - like telling us about his awesome campaigns, canonical or not.

I do have to read the thread if there aren't many others posted, and I want to read about rpgs. Plus, you don't know it's bullshit until you've read it, do you? Well, unless you're a psychic TML inhabitant...

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;309051Keep in mind that there's more than just one flavor of fan over at CotI. There's some people over there who just want to talk about and enjoy the game.

But they can expect S4 and Whipsnade to regularly come in and shit on their fun.

But regarding the topic, that's no reason to shit on your fans. I've been a pretty firm advocate of MGT to date. MongooseFordy really has me wondering if I should quit buying MGT products immediately.

It's pretty hard to read that post in context and not see it as a joke.  A bad one, but a joke, nonetheless.

ETA: Oh, no humor over there: http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=19747

Tangentially, post #4 in this thread shows how much service the grogs have done spreading the word of Traveller: http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=19753

I just looked over there and wish I hadn't.

Over the past eight years I've been on CotI, I've conversed with just about every participant in that dust-up and the behavior I'm seeing is beneath the dignity of every single one of them. I like these people, but I don't like the way they are acting right now.

It makes me embarrassed to say that I enjoy Traveller if that kind of behavior is what is being associated with fans of the game. We're better than that.

EDIT: Why am I telling you guys, I should be telling them.

EDIT2: Done.

Kyle: You ant to know what I've done? Open a copy of T20, EABA, EABA Stuff, or the MGT core book... you'll find me on the credits page of each. But that's immaterial to the question asked. Now, if Pundit feels I'm way out of line asking the question here, fine, I'm certain he'll tell me when I cross the line.

Kyle, there´s a German saying and it goes like this:

"If you don´t have a clue, simply keep your face shut."

Honestly, way brighter people than you and I have discussed the merits of Imperium canon vs. generic sci fi.

If there´s civilizatory advance in RPGs then it´s always in the settings. Rules are relative, but an enlightened continous update of a setting via a vetted process is worth so much, you´ll never understand it, I fear.

ADD: Half of this goes for Pundit, too.

I just want to know which canon is canon.

Is it the one where the emperor was assassinated, or the one where he wasn't?  The one where the virus happened, or the one where it didn't?  The one where earth circa 2300 and its fight with the kafer is branded as pre-history to the empire, or the one where it isn't?

Is it just the LBBs?  Megatraveller?  T:TNE?  T2300?  G:T?  T4?  T20?  MGT?  T5?  How is one to know where canon begins and where it ends?  Is the MGT's change to the Aslan really that big of a deal compared to all those other editions?

This is like people complaining that the new Star Trek movie butchered canon while ignoring that Enterprise, Voyager, DS9, TNG, the movies, the cartoon, the comics, the games, and the 8 million books already butchered canon 100 times over.

Whist I dont agree with Aramis and hes comments I dont have any problem with him asking them Kyle.

As said before by others the Traveller IS the OTU its the point of can/should canon be changed or altered that a sticking point in this discussion.

See Aramis we can agree on some things

Rog.

Quote from: jgants;309241I just want to know which canon is canon.

Is it the one where the emperor was assassinated, or the one where he wasn't?  The one where the virus happened, or the one where it didn't?  The one where earth circa 2300 and its fight with the kafer is branded as pre-history to the empire, or the one where it isn't?

Is it just the LBBs?  Megatraveller?  T:TNE?  T2300?  G:T?  T4?  T20?  MGT?  T5?  How is one to know where canon begins and where it ends?  Is the MGT's change to the Aslan really that big of a deal compared to all those other editions?

To be correct your confusing two different game lines here, those being Traveller (in all its forms) & 2300AD (Originally called by a sort of mistake Traveller:2300) both made by GDW.

Canon in the Traveller line is a mix match that has been alteretd and in some cases rewritten by new versions and Marc's calls, point in case the old Judges Guild's Sector supplements were once canon and then removed form canon when T20 started.

In the end if Marc OK's a canon change then thats the final call and take it from someone who knows you have to make a good argument for him to OK changes.

Quote from: aramis;309216Kyle: You ant to know what I've done? Open a copy of T20, EABA, EABA Stuff, or the MGT core book... you'll find me on the credits page of each.

Mazeltov on your writing credits.

But I didn't ask you about what you'd written, I asked you about what you had played or GMed. Let's turn it around on me.

Kyle: "This new edition of D&D suxxorz!"
Aramis: "Tell us about the games you played and ran with other editions of D&D."
Kyle: "I wrote d4-d4."

So what? That didn't answer the question.

Tell us about your campaigns. That's much more interesting.

Quote from: aramis;309083Since 1981, Traveller has been mostly about the OTU.

That's CT 2nd edition, MegaTraveller, TNE, T4, T20, and GT.

Yes, I know. I'm just saying that's a shame.

QuoteI don't mind them going "generic" in the rules; I do mind them f*ing up stuff that a read of a product they have on CD would have shown, for no other reason than "We feel it's more fun this way."

Well, I wonder if it was really "we feel its more fun" and not "we fucked up and now we're trying to make ridiculous claims to cover it up". I've seen that a lot in RPG setting-design, though mainly in RPG - writers who use bad latin or really stupid alternate history.
First they try to claim they're right, then after they are proven wrong they say "well its just fun so who cares"?

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