I keep seeing more and more people going to see the new D&D movie, many of which were fighting mad when WotC pulled its crazy attempt at pulling the OGL recently. I remember in the midst of the OGL fiasco many of these people stating they were boycotting WotC/Hasbro and would not give them another dime. Some of them even stated they would boycott the D&D movie.
Suddenly they all seem to have forgotten all about those declarations and are off to see the movie.
Are the gaming community members just a bunch of suckers, beholden to WotC/Hasbro and the D&D product overall? Or are folks changing their minds now that WotC/Hasbro recinded their original plan toward the OGL.
They didnt forget they just never really cared that much. They were just going along with what was popular at the time.
Quote from: Slambo on April 04, 2023, 03:46:39 PM
They didnt forget they just never really cared that much. They were just going along with what was popular at the time.
Not Surprised. Although it has like a total of like a $200,000 budget so it will have to keep doing well it make it's money back. Its got a bit to go.
I wont see it.
Quote from: Batjon on April 04, 2023, 03:36:18 PM
Are the gaming community members just a bunch of suckers, beholden to WotC/Hasbro and the D&D product overall? Or are folks changing their minds now that WotC/Hasbro recinded their original plan toward the OGL.
I haven't bought any direct WotC products, but I will go see the movie.
It helps that WotC didn't just rescind their plans, but went a step further and put the whole SRD under CC-BY. To me, the point of a boycott is to change the company's behavior. The boycott worked and they changed their tune. This doesn't mean that they're trustworthy, but it puts them in the big grey area of giant corporations that I will deal with as part of life, even if I don't like it. Boycotting every untrustworthy corporation is unworkable to me, short of living on a communal farm.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 03:49:06 PM
it has like a total of like a $200,000 budget
I think you're missing a few zeros there!
The creative commons license represented an almost complete capitulation on the issue. As regards 5e specifically, it was far more than anyone could have hoped- the entire SRD, along with all the words they were hoping to threaten people with, such as "Owlbear", being placed into an irrevocable license with NO conditions now or in the future.
It's a complete and total loss on behalf of whatever faction was trying to get this done, and they can't come back to it later because the CC license is totally permanent.
So if someone was perfectly fine with WotC until then, I would very much expect they would be perfectly fine with them now. It would be irrational for someone saying "I'm not going to see the movie or buy the products because of the OGL thing!" to continue that boycott after achieving what amounts to an absolute and total victory.
Quote from: Zalman on April 04, 2023, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 03:49:06 PM
it has like a total of like a $200,000 budget
I think you're missing a few zeros there!
The movie cost $151 million to make. Grossed $38 million on its opening weekend, which puts it on track to lose big money. So by industry standards it's a commercial flop. No idea what percentage of that opening weekend audience were gamers vs. general public.
I'm still boycotting WotC and I'm not going to the movie, but they are only tangentially related. Because I wouldn't go to the movie anyway. I probably won't even watch it 5 years from now when it's long been on the Blu-Ray bargain rack, but who knows. I might end up sitting in a room when it's on, and end up not leaving for some reason.
Not the best person to ask, since I pretty much hate everything that Hollywood does now. :D
Quote from: Festus on April 04, 2023, 04:36:59 PM
Quote from: Zalman on April 04, 2023, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 03:49:06 PM
it has like a total of like a $200,000 budget
I think you're missing a few zeros there!
The movie cost $151 million to make. Grossed $38 million on its opening weekend, which puts it on track to lose big money. So by industry standards it's a commercial flop. No idea what percentage of that opening weekend audience were gamers vs. general public.
Well, Marvel/DC movies are heavily frontloaded (meaning they make most of their money in the first (first two) weeks), IF HaT is like those (I think it is since it's a niche audience) we can assume most of the audience in the first week ARE gamers.
Now we would need a scientific study to KNOW, somehow I don't think anyone will do one.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 04, 2023, 04:46:14 PM
I might end up sitting in a room when it's on, and end up not leaving for some reason.
Not the best person to ask, since I pretty much hate everything that Hollywood does now. :D
Yeah same here. I tend to catch this type of movie on the plane, aka when I'm a captive audience and don't have to pay.
Greetings!
The D&D movie? It is only tangentially related to the whole OGL fiasco. I don't like Hollyweird in general, and the lead-up to this movie--contrary to the simps--seems to be very disappointing and also offensive.
The "We intentionally emasculated the men characters in the movie"
Fuck them. And fuck their stupid, pathetic movie, as well. I'm not interested in uber-feminist, soy-filed, anti-masculine Kool-Aid.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Festus on April 04, 2023, 04:36:59 PM
Quote from: Zalman on April 04, 2023, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 03:49:06 PM
it has like a total of like a $200,000 budget
I think you're missing a few zeros there!
The movie cost $151 million to make. Grossed $38 million on its opening weekend, which puts it on track to lose big money. So by industry standards it's a commercial flop. No idea what percentage of that opening weekend audience were gamers vs. general public.
The $38M is domestic (US & Canada) sales, which was on the high end of the studio's projected $30-40M opening box office. The film made over $70M worldwide opening weekend, and is now projected to double that by next week based on the favorable reception. At the very least the film will break even.
I won't waste my time on it.
But most people are just consoomers. And in 2023 where everything is owned and controlled by The Regime, you don't have much choice. If you want to participate in what's designated as mainstream cultural discourse, you've had all your choices already pre-made for you.
Quote from: Slambo on April 04, 2023, 03:46:39 PM
They didnt forget they just never really cared that much. They were just going along with what was popular at the time.
I think that's probably true. It's probably true of most Internet kerfuffles.
Quote from: Batjon on April 04, 2023, 03:36:18 PMSuddenly they all seem to have forgotten all about those declarations and are off to see the movie.
I followed the OGL outrage fairly closely, and the number I heard being stated was that 70,000 people were mad enough to cancel their D&D Beyond membership. If those people had all bought tickets to the movie, that would have been $700,000 in box office.
To put that in perspective, this movie needs to make $400 million just to break even (due to it's MCU level budget). That's about 40 million tickets. So the amount of people upset about the OGL is insignificant compared to the amount of people Hasbro was hoping would be in their audience.
IOW, the number of people angry about the OGL is just too small to have a significant effect on whether or not this movie succeeds.
Quote from: Festus on April 04, 2023, 04:36:59 PM
Quote from: Zalman on April 04, 2023, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 03:49:06 PM
it has like a total of like a $200,000 budget
I think you're missing a few zeros there!
The movie cost $151 million to make. Grossed $38 million on its opening weekend, which puts it on track to lose big money. So by industry standards it's a commercial flop. No idea what percentage of that opening weekend audience were gamers vs. general public.
To add to this, the budget usually doesn't include marketing. I do know my cousin who doesnt game at all wants to see it so i think its partially popular with non-games. Though i like to believe, probably falsely, the old d&d movie turned the brand into box office poison
Quote from: Slambo on April 04, 2023, 08:07:17 PM
Quote from: Festus on April 04, 2023, 04:36:59 PM
Quote from: Zalman on April 04, 2023, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 03:49:06 PM
it has like a total of like a $200,000 budget
I think you're missing a few zeros there!
The movie cost $151 million to make. Grossed $38 million on its opening weekend, which puts it on track to lose big money. So by industry standards it's a commercial flop. No idea what percentage of that opening weekend audience were gamers vs. general public.
To add to this, the budget usually doesn't include marketing. I do know my cousin who doesnt game at all wants to see it so i think its partially popular with non-games. Though i like to believe, probably falsely, the old d&d movie turned the brand into box office poison
When they make D&D movies, they seem compelled to play them as campy, like 70's Hollywood did with Superhero movies.
But D&D is actually supposed to have ridiculous components, but be played completely straight, like the '88/Nolan Batman movies.
Quote from: Zalman on April 04, 2023, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 03:49:06 PM
it has like a total of like a $200,000 budget
I think you're missing a few zeros there!
Yeah you are right. I meant $200,000.,000.
Quote from: Festus on April 04, 2023, 04:36:59 PM
The movie cost $151 million to make. Grossed $38 million on its opening weekend, which puts it on track to lose big money. So by industry standards it's a commercial flop. No idea what percentage of that opening weekend audience were gamers vs. general public.
Plus they put in a lot for advertising. Not sure if the number is correct but I heard $100 million for ads. Still has a way to go before it breaks even.
TFW a Brazilian car commercial looks and feels more like D&D than any official D&D live action movie ever.
It's funny, I watched Dungeon Craft's review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whWtgc3PwTo) of the film, wherein he explains that one reason the movie will tank is because people don't forgive WoTC for the OGL debacle so quickly. People including himself, apparently, as he goes into an extended rant about how evil and untrustworthy WoTC is and how no way he's going to forgive them so soon ...
... in a video reviewing the WoTC movie he (presumably) just paid to watch.
Quote from: Venka on April 04, 2023, 04:22:27 PM
The creative commons license represented an almost complete capitulation on the issue. As regards 5e specifically, it was far more than anyone could have hoped- the entire SRD, along with all the words they were hoping to threaten people with, such as "Owlbear", being placed into an irrevocable license with NO conditions now or in the future.
It's a complete and total loss on behalf of whatever faction was trying to get this done, and they can't come back to it later because the CC license is totally permanent.
So if someone was perfectly fine with WotC until then, I would very much expect they would be perfectly fine with them now. It would be irrational for someone saying "I'm not going to see the movie or buy the products because of the OGL thing!" to continue that boycott after achieving what amounts to an absolute and total victory.
Almost being the key word. They said they were considering putting SRD 3.5 under CC-BY 4.0, but I guess on seeing that the storm had calmed sufficiently they scrapped that idea, since it was no longer necessary. Anyone who released a product under the OGL with SRD 3.5 should still consider combing through it and updating it to only rely on SRD 5.1.
I'm not going, but for reasons that have nothing to do with the OGL fiasco or the changes to D&D. They boil down to "D&D has nothing to inform what the movie is unlike, say a Dragonlance movie would and give the price of theater tickets I need something really compelling to get me to pay for it."
Will probably watch a friend's BluRay when that drops.
That said, despite being the book office winner for last weekend, it is underperforming in terms of expectation (about 55% of what was anticipated prior to the OGL stupidity for opening weekend). The most positive review I've heard said, "Not quite as good as the original Conan movie".
If this was to be the start of a profitable franchise, that first Conan movie was the minimal bar. The real bar was probably much higher. That and probably not making money until foreign release (you start making money at about twice the budget for the actual film is a good rule of thumb) mean even with these numbers it's a failure.
Quote from: Festus on April 04, 2023, 04:36:59 PM
Quote from: Zalman on April 04, 2023, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 03:49:06 PM
it has like a total of like a $200,000 budget
I think you're missing a few zeros there!
The movie cost $151 million to make. Grossed $38 million on its opening weekend, which puts it on track to lose big money. So by industry standards it's a commercial flop. No idea what percentage of that opening weekend audience were gamers vs. general public.
I'm betting more general public.
Last night at trivia we had a question "what box office winning movie this weekend is based on a game."
We missed it. I said the new Tetris movie. Why? I have seen ads for it constantly but not a one to remind me the D&D movie had come out. You'd think given my internet history targeted ads pushing D&D would be all over my browsing, but no.
That tells me no real effort was made to advertise to the game's fanbase. I think long term that will cost them.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 04, 2023, 04:46:14 PM
I'm still boycotting WotC and I'm not going to the movie, but they are only tangentially related. Because I wouldn't go to the movie anyway. I probably won't even watch it 5 years from now when it's long been on the Blu-Ray bargain rack, but who knows. I might end up sitting in a room when it's on, and end up not leaving for some reason.
Not the best person to ask, since I pretty much hate everything that Hollywood does now. :D
While I will probably watch the BluRay I might not. I have never watched the other one.
Quote from: Effete on April 04, 2023, 05:38:26 PM
Quote from: Festus on April 04, 2023, 04:36:59 PM
Quote from: Zalman on April 04, 2023, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 03:49:06 PM
it has like a total of like a $200,000 budget
I think you're missing a few zeros there!
The movie cost $151 million to make. Grossed $38 million on its opening weekend, which puts it on track to lose big money. So by industry standards it's a commercial flop. No idea what percentage of that opening weekend audience were gamers vs. general public.
The $38M is domestic (US & Canada) sales, which was on the high end of the studio's projected $30-40M opening box office. The film made over $70M worldwide opening weekend, and is now projected to double that by next week based on the favorable reception. At the very least the film will break even.
The estimates now. Go into the archives 2-3 months and the projections were twice that.
The preview was so cringeworthy & stupid I knew there was no reason to watch it. Lame jokes at every turn. Dialogue written for 6 year olds. Hamfisted Forgotten Realms lore insertions. Something designed for elementary school intellects like J. Scott Garibay to enjoy. And what was up with the Led Zeppelin music? Even if you were going to use Zeppelin, why that particular song as opposed to stuff inspired by Tolkien?
Quote from: Batjon on April 04, 2023, 03:36:18 PM
Are the gaming community members just a bunch of suckers, beholden to WotC/Hasbro and the D&D product overall?
For the most part, yes
If they weren't, they would have learned their lesson from DnD 4e and how WotC handled that.
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 05, 2023, 12:11:44 PM
Quote from: Batjon on April 04, 2023, 03:36:18 PM
Are the gaming community members just a bunch of suckers, beholden to WotC/Hasbro and the D&D product overall?
For the most part, yes
If they weren't, they would have learned their lesson from DnD 4e and how WotC handled that.
Theyd have learned from the whole existence of wotc.
But of course they did not. And never will.
I told you they would get distracted by the next bright shiny and wotc played them well with releasing the OSR and now oooh look movie! We have to see the movie because its totally not wotc! And oooh look they are planning to defile Planescape next! Isnt wotc great!
Quote from: Persimmon on April 05, 2023, 12:09:04 PM
The preview was so cringeworthy & stupid I knew there was no reason to watch it. Lame jokes at every turn. Dialogue written for 6 year olds. Hamfisted Forgotten Realms lore insertions. Something designed for elementary school intellects like J. Scott Garibay to enjoy. And what was up with the Led Zeppelin music? Even if you were going to use Zeppelin, why that particular song as opposed to stuff inspired by Tolkien?
Greetings!
"...elementary school intellects like J. Scott Garibay to enjoy". *LAUGHING* My friend, I am relaxing, enjoying a pipe and some good coffee, and this just made me howl with laughter!
I think the same way about the D&D movie. From the beginning, it looked, sounded, and felt like total garbage.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Persimmon on April 05, 2023, 12:09:04 PM
The preview was so cringeworthy & stupid I knew there was no reason to watch it. Lame jokes at every turn. Dialogue written for 6 year olds. Hamfisted Forgotten Realms lore insertions. Something designed for elementary school intellects like J. Scott Garibay to enjoy. And what was up with the Led Zeppelin music? Even if you were going to use Zeppelin, why that particular song as opposed to stuff inspired by Tolkien?
I agree. When I saw that I wondered if I was watching the trailer from the original D&D movie. Just Campy crap.
I might watch it if it's on free TV, but certainly won't go out to the theatre to see it.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 05, 2023, 01:36:47 PM
I agree. When I saw that I wondered if I was watching the trailer from the original D&D movie. Just Campy crap.
Every trailer I saw for the new movie gave me flashbacks to the old one. But then, I made the mistake of seeing the 2000 film in the theater...
I'm not seeing it, and due to the OGL asshattery I deliberately will never buy a WOTC product again. Everyone in my group feels the same way. I had already decided to stop buying WOTC's rpg products shortly after Tasha's cauldron came out, but I was open to the idea of going to see the D&D movie. Others in my group were still buying the occasional WOTC product, but that has ground to a permanent halt.
Saw it Tuesday. It was alright. Very faithful to WoTC D&D I thought (eg the spells, the monsters, & all the black people in the far north of Faerun ;D). It wasn't nearly as hostile to the male characters as you'd expect from the director/writer comments.
The only thing that really bugged me was how fake the city & castle looked; there was no sense at all of lived-in-ness. Very much the opposite of Star Wars, or the original Milius Conan film. Also they kept saying sh*t purely to bump the age rating up (to 12 in UK), it was extremely inoffensive, really a PG film, tops. That fits with WoTC D&D. The lack of gayness was striking though, the film had a lot of heterosexual marriage(!) in PC backstories, the two PCs who hadn't been married were explicitly straight, and fatherhood was a major theme. Very not-JC (Jeremy Crawford). Given how campy the film was otherwise, that was just as well. I don't know if this was for the Chinese market, but it was nice to see.
Quote from: S'mon on April 06, 2023, 02:16:25 AMIt wasn't nearly as hostile to the male characters as you'd expect from the director/writer comments.
Not hostile at all. Maybe they did a bit of editing after the reaction to those comments. Or maybe those guys were just telling the interviewers what they thought they wanted to hear. I understand that happens a lot.
Quote from: S'mon on April 06, 2023, 02:16:25 AM
Saw it Tuesday. It was alright. Very faithful to WoTC D&D I thought (eg the spells, the monsters, & all the black people in the far north of Faerun ;D). It wasn't nearly as hostile to the male characters as you'd expect from the director/writer comments.
The only thing that really bugged me was how fake the city & castle looked; there was no sense at all of lived-in-ness. Very much the opposite of Star Wars, or the original Milius Conan film. Also they kept saying sh*t purely to bump the age rating up (to 12 in UK), it was extremely inoffensive, really a PG film, tops. That fits with WoTC D&D. The lack of gayness was striking though, the film had a lot of heterosexual marriage(!) in PC backstories, the two PCs who hadn't been married were explicitly straight, and fatherhood was a major theme. Very not-JC (Jeremy Crawford). Given how campy the film was otherwise, that was just as well. I don't know if this was for the Chinese market, but it was nice to see.
I enjoyed the subtleness of taking jabs at the paladin class (and over role playing) and the group pounding speak with the dead into the ground until they got what they wanted. There were quite a few Easter eggs that did not derail the overall experience for people who wouldn't get them.
Between the bad JC, the OGL fiasco, etc. I will never buy or run a WotC product until there are massive changes. Changes I doubt will ever happen.
But, and this is in general, with nothing to do with what I quoted from S'mon...
This is a hobby. Something I carve out for fun in my life. I've had hundreds of hours playing this game with my family. This fall, my first leaves the house for college. And last weekend, I was able to see him laugh several times out loud rooted in something we have done together for the last decade plus on the big screen.
Quote from: S'mon on April 06, 2023, 02:16:25 AMfatherhood was a major theme
Fatherhood is the theme of the movie. The main character is a father trying to get his family back from another character envious of his family. It's a well put together story and leaves the main character with a classic D&D dilemma at the end.
Aaawww CMON Man! It's Michelle Rodriguez - big-nosed chics are hot AF!!
The funny HAT was #1 its opening week!! Take THAT everybody-who-wants-to-be-WOTC-but-can't!! Take THAT Simon Gruber!! Next on the docket --- DRAGONLANCE!!! (and we're gender-swappin' EVERYBODY!!!)
To me the vibe and the execution was "Fantasy Guardians of the Galaxy" and IMHO they largely pulled it off, maybe at an A- or B+ grade if you assume a reference point of GoG being an "A" (obviously, Guardians of the Galaxy isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think that is the comparison). If you dislike the Marvel movies and especially the humorous side of those movies, then D&D movie is not something you will like, which is perfectly fair.
The movie is not, and obviously was not, intended to be "serious" in the vein of the first D&D movie, Conan the Barbarian (original or remake), or many other fantasy movies. For what it is, I think it is pretty good. Frankly, most fantasy/sword & sorcery movies, classic or modern, feature laughable acting, underwhelming special effects, and extremely questionable plot sequences. I think we view many classic movies in the genre with enormous amounts of unacknowledged nostalgia.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on April 05, 2023, 08:45:00 PM
Every trailer I saw for the new movie gave me flashbacks to the old one. But then, I made the mistake of seeing the 2000 film in the theater...
I didnt see it in the theater and after seeing I am glad I didnt.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 11:28:44 PM
Plus they put in a lot for advertising. Not sure if the number is correct but I heard $100 million for ads. Still has a way to go before it breaks even.
The industry standard calculation is that marketing basically doubles the budget (except for Disney, who often spend one and half times the budget for marketing purposes), and then you have to account for the cut from the cinema chains, which comes to between 20 and 30% of the gross take (Disney tends to get better numbers here, theaters know Disney movies tend to be bankable so they only charge 15-20% of the gross).
A 151 million budget means this movie cost about 300 million to make and market, and whatever comes in as the total gross (domestic and international) needs to be cut to about 75% in order to get the actual return.
Figure about 500 million needed to turn a profit, to be safe.
P.S.: In the not-so-distant past there were also massive distribution costs that needed to be accounted for, but these have been cut substantially due to digital copies becoming more prevalent. Film rolls are fucking expensive.
Quote from: S'mon on April 06, 2023, 02:16:25 AMI don't know if this was for the Chinese market, but it was nice to see.
If it had been made with the Chinese in mind, there would have been a lot fewer black people in it.
Looks like $150-200 million for budget, unknown marketing budget. $80 million worldwide so far in ticket sales.
The thing is, WotC aren't looking for break even, or a small profit; they're expecting marvel blockbuster money, and the start of a juggernaut movie franchise.
Absolutely delusional, but suits surrounded by Yes-Zem can be very detached from reality.
Quote from: GamerforHire on April 06, 2023, 08:50:41 AM
To me the vibe and the execution was "Fantasy Guardians of the Galaxy" and IMHO they largely pulled it off, maybe at an A- or B+ grade if you assume a reference point of GoG being an "A" (obviously, Guardians of the Galaxy isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think that is the comparison). If you dislike the Marvel movies and especially the humorous side of those movies, then D&D movie is not something you will like, which is perfectly fair.
The movie is not, and obviously was not, intended to be "serious" in the vein of the first D&D movie, Conan the Barbarian (original or remake), or many other fantasy movies. For what it is, I think it is pretty good. Frankly, most fantasy/sword & sorcery movies, classic or modern, feature laughable acting, underwhelming special effects, and extremely questionable plot sequences. I think we view many classic movies in the genre with enormous amounts of unacknowledged nostalgia.
I absolutely agree with this. It would be a shame if HAT tanks and puts a damper on anybody else producing fantasy movies.
Quote from: BronzeDragon on April 06, 2023, 10:41:35 AM
The industry standard calculation is that marketing basically doubles the budget (except for Disney, who often spend one and half times the budget for marketing purposes), and then you have to account for the cut from the cinema chains, which comes to between 20 and 30% of the gross take (Disney tends to get better numbers here, theaters know Disney movies tend to be bankable so they only charge 15-20% of the gross).
A 151 million budget means this movie cost about 300 million to make and market, and whatever comes in as the total gross (domestic and international) needs to be cut to about 75% in order to get the actual return.
Figure about 500 million needed to turn a profit, to be safe.
P.S.: In the not-so-distant past there were also massive distribution costs that needed to be accounted for, but these have been cut substantially due to digital copies becoming more prevalent. Film rolls are fucking expensive.
Well actually now movies are digital not film so thats even cheaper for the studios. But when they use known actors, they have to pay higher salaries plus CGI.
I agree with you about the cost making about breaking even and they have a long way to go before getting there.
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 06, 2023, 11:05:41 AM
The thing is, WotC aren't looking for break even, or a small profit; they're expecting marvel blockbuster money, and the start of a juggernaut movie franchise.
Absolutely delusional, but suits surrounded by Yes-Zem can be very detached from reality.
You are right about that. People don't want woke BS movies, they want actual fantasy movies without the WOKE BS.
I wouldn't watch this movie for two main reasons.
One) I detest Ha$bro and Wotc.
Two) It looks like a mawkish fucking kids film.
Quote from: S'mon on April 06, 2023, 02:16:25 AM
Saw it Tuesday. It was alright. Very faithful to WoTC D&D I thought (eg the spells, the monsters, & all the black people in the far north of Faerun ;D). It wasn't nearly as hostile to the male characters as you'd expect from the director/writer comments.
The only thing that really bugged me was how fake the city & castle looked; there was no sense at all of lived-in-ness. Very much the opposite of Star Wars, or the original Milius Conan film.
Quote from: GamerforHire on April 06, 2023, 08:50:41 AM
To me the vibe and the execution was "Fantasy Guardians of the Galaxy" and IMHO they largely pulled it off, maybe at an A- or B+ grade if you assume a reference point of GoG being an "A" (obviously, Guardians of the Galaxy isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think that is the comparison). If you dislike the Marvel movies and especially the humorous side of those movies, then D&D movie is not something you will like, which is perfectly fair.
OK, I've seen it now too - and I'd largely agree with both of these. It didn't do a good job at world-building, but I thought it captured well the vibe of D&D players trying to get their way through a module - including some really clever bits (like the cart robbery) as well as some humorous blunders. The bad guys were serious and deadly, but the main cast had a lot of quips and jokes when fighting them.
To me, that vibe fit well with my D&D experience going back to the 1980s. For me, most D&D games weren't a deeply serious immersive exploration of a truly lived-in place. There are weird monsters and unexplained parts of the dungeon ("Why would anyone build this?!"). Serious deep world-building was more for games like Harn or RuneQuest in Glorantha. D&D has more often been a chance to kick back, roll some dice, drink Mountain Dew, and slay some dragons.
The less old-school parts was stuff like the theme of fatherhood, and characters having families they connect with - but that didn't seem particularly woke to me.
It's definitely a kids film. But then it's based on a kids game.
Quote from: mightybrain on April 06, 2023, 01:55:52 PM
It's definitely a kids film. But then it's based on a kids game.
(https://media.tenor.com/j9c6Lv5h9EcAAAAC/tony-stark-rolling-eyes.gif)
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 06, 2023, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: mightybrain on April 06, 2023, 01:55:52 PM
It's definitely a kids film. But then it's based on a kids game.
(https://media.tenor.com/j9c6Lv5h9EcAAAAC/tony-stark-rolling-eyes.gif)
Must be why the movie is rated PG13 right? It's a kids movie right? That's what PG13 means right?
Quote from: mightybrain on April 06, 2023, 01:55:52 PM
It's definitely a kids film. But then it's based on a kids game.
Probably not a smart comment to make since there are a lot of us playing that "kids" game.
Learn to read a room.
I'm getting two sets of reviews.
1. Gamers with a predisposition to hate WotC for nerfing their hardcore RPG, getting VERY greedy and tried to "I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it further." Aka the OGL fiasco. And the WotC leadership just don't seem like gamers, but more like clueless corporate businessmen only pretending to be gamers. #NotOneOfUs. The movie is doomed from the start. Too much drama has already tainted it.
2. Normies, who don't know any behind the scenes greed stories, are watching the movie and like it. Not love it, but they liked it.
I'm not going to see it, but I'm also never been a fan in the first place.
Now, if we could get Jerry Bruckheimer off the couch and make that Palladium Rifts movie they optioned off of Palladium Books years ago, then I'll get interested. Right now they're just squatters with the rights to make a movie. And I know that's almost always what happens, but it still sucks to never get a movie of your favorite IP's like Rifts, or many other IP's.
For D&D the publishers' recommended age is 12 and up. They are many games that very definitely aren't aimed at kids, but D&D explicitly is.
Well this isn't my D&D which I run at my table.
And I'm not giving money to WotC. So I don't care if it *were* the form of D&D I run, with an all-star cast of badass actors from the Time Before. I still wouldn't pay money to see it.
One thing I noticed is that the film characters (for the most part) seem to fit together better as a party, than any 5e D&D game equivalents you can create. Neither the bard character, nor the druid character, appear to have or use any spells at all in the film. But this only serves to leave that role clear for the sorcerer. 5e definitely bloats most of the classes and races with way too many magic powers in the game. It's interesting that the screenwriters noticed this where the game designers didn't. But I guess the game designers were trying to emulate genre heroes with each class separately rather than thinking about them in terms of their role within a group.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 06, 2023, 05:47:26 PMNow, if we could get Jerry Bruckheimer off the couch and make that Palladium Rifts movie they optioned off of Palladium Books years ago, then I'll get interested. Right now they're just squatters with the rights to make a movie. And I know that's almost always what happens, but it still sucks to never get a movie of your favorite IP's like Rifts, or many other IP's.
I for one think the moviegoing public is finally ready for a movie where the good guys wear skulls all over, use weapons covered in skulls, and pilot skull-shaped vehicles to and from their skull-citadels.
So, a Warhammer movie?
Ah well, I did a bit of an elevator pitch for a D&D movie earlier this year:
Well, for myself I'd want it set in Greyhawk.
We start with an establishing scene of the classic map by Darlene on a table with a skull candle, dagger, and maybe the wand of orcus. In the background two people are making out, we pan into the shadow and it's Iuz and Zugtmoy making out and giggling. We shift frame through a glowing crimson pentacle on the wall into the nine Hells, Asmodeus and Dispatcher are explaining their plan to invade and seize the Flannesses region at long last. A cringing, grovelling Dretch limps away with the drink tray after a bit of mean spirited abuse and prays "Saint Cuthbert, one such as I has no right to gaze upwards at the heavens but grant thine fallen servant's prayer and warn them." The camera follows into a tear in his eye and spins out into a beautiful, immaculate glass cathedral where a scarred and beaten man kneels before an altar to Pelor, his hand resting on a battered cudgel. He raises an eye to the sungod's image in the stained glass and we pan back to a dark stone cathedral where a young priest in armour kneels before the altar his hand resting on a mace. He rises, looks into the ajoining chamber where fat priests are drinking and laughing and making sneering comments about their parishoners. The young priest sighs, shakes his head, and walks away out the side door. He walks down the street and a cloud passes overhead, casting the scene in shadow. A beautiful girl in tan leathers is leaning in a doorway hefting a sack of coins. She turns to the young priest and smiles and comes over, asks why he's looking so serious, after all, it's not the end of the world and he looks her right in they eye and says, "but it is, it really is." The scene shifts to a quiet tavern, there's a dwarf in plate armor, an ugly, female, half - orc in scale mail, the priest, the girl from the doorway, and a gnome in an elaborate robe talking and looking at a crudely drawn map on the table. We cut to them travelling up a mountain path in the rain. Their guide takes payment, pointing them to an ill used rocky path over looked by a skeleton nailed up on a post. The guide turns and leads the pack mules away and we follow the path up, passing the heroes as they march single file, and there is a disturbing cave, like the collapsed entrance of a forgotten temple ahead of them.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 06, 2023, 05:47:26 PM
Now, if we could get Jerry Bruckheimer off the couch and make that Palladium Rifts movie they optioned off of Palladium Books years ago, then I'll get interested. Right now they're just squatters with the rights to make a movie. And I know that's almost always what happens, but it still sucks to never get a movie of your favorite IP's like Rifts, or many other IP's.
I wonder if he still has the rights to it or have the expired. Depending on the contract he still may have them or not. If he sat on them and let them expire that that's stupid and just gave Kevin free money (though I am not sure how much he would have gotten for it).
Correct me if I am wrong but I heard Kevin S. was submitting ideas for the movie and I "think" he even wanted to write it. I could be wrong.
The new Transformers movie is due out soon, and the commercials for it made me think, "What if the D&D movie was made by Michael Bay, as in all-in move by Hasbro to cash in on the D&D intellectual property?" A Bay-led movie on D&D is really funny to think about, if you let your mind wander.
Add to this the new WotC controversy of removing half-races from the game because they are "problematic." Bye bye Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, etc.
Quote from: GamerforHire on April 07, 2023, 09:12:31 AM
The new Transformers movie is due out soon, and the commercials for it made me think, "What if the D&D movie was made by Michael Bay, as in all-in move by Hasbro to cash in on the D&D intellectual property?" A Bay-led movie on D&D is really funny to think about, if you let your mind wander.
I'm somehow imagining in my head Christopher Walken saying "Guess what! I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more EXPLOSIONS!"
Quote from: Batjon on April 07, 2023, 10:46:04 AM
Add to this the new WotC controversy of removing half-races from the game because they are "problematic." Bye bye Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, etc.
It's weird that they said it's "Racist". Do they explain how it is racist? Did I missing something?
Quote from: mightybrain on April 06, 2023, 07:59:01 PM
One thing I noticed is that the film characters (for the most part) seem to fit together better as a party, than any 5e D&D game equivalents you can create. Neither the bard character, nor the druid character, appear to have or use any spells at all in the film. But this only serves to leave that role clear for the sorcerer. <snip> It's interesting that the screenwriters noticed this where the game designers didn't. But I guess the game designers were trying to emulate genre heroes with each class separately rather than thinking about them in terms of their role within a group.
When designing classes for an RPG, it is important that none of the character classes become mandatory. So each class will often be able to replicate another class on a limited basis (Paladins heal, wizards can magically unlock things). But when making a movie, it is more important to have clearly defined characters so this isn't a benefit. Plus, in a movie the entire adventure is written specifically for the characters in the movie so any limitations in the party line up just turn into plot points.
One doesn't want Bruckheimer or Bay for a D&D movie, one wants John Boorman or John Milius. Imagine a D&D movie that looked like the art plates from AD&D 2e.
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 07, 2023, 03:15:40 PM
One doesn't want Bruckheimer or Bay for a D&D movie, one wants John Boorman or John Milius. Imagine a D&D movie that looked like the art plates from AD&D 2e.
Nah, you want Miguel Galindo + Jaime Jimenez Pons https://www.filmaffinity.com/mx/film781977.html (https://www.filmaffinity.com/mx/film781977.html)
Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 04, 2023, 08:06:26 PM
I followed the OGL outrage fairly closely, and the number I heard being stated was that 70,000 people were mad enough to cancel their D&D Beyond membership. If those people had all bought tickets to the movie, that would have been $700,000 in box office.
Yeah, but it's not just 70,000 right? That's 70k people and the people they didn't bring with them, and the family & friends they told to stay away from the movie.
That still might not add up to the 100's of millions that movie needs to make money, but it's not nothing.
Quote from: Thor's Nads on April 07, 2023, 11:30:21 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 04, 2023, 08:06:26 PM
I followed the OGL outrage fairly closely, and the number I heard being stated was that 70,000 people were mad enough to cancel their D&D Beyond membership. If those people had all bought tickets to the movie, that would have been $700,000 in box office.
Yeah, but it's not just 70,000 right? That's 70k people and the people they didn't bring with them, and the family & friends they told to stay away from the movie.
That still might not add up to the 100's of millions that movie needs to make money, but it's not nothing.
It's also not like every person who was thinking about seeing the movie has a D&D Beyond subscription to cancel in the first place. I know dozens of people who have seen this movie who have never heard of D&D Beyond.