Quote from: Arminius;882336Saw this in the QuickStart and now in the example:

Do I understand correctly that it's easier for an Elite warrior to sneak up on a position when accompanied by a mob than when operating all alone?

Yeah, stealth is problematic with the "more is better" rule.

I also saw something bizarre in the ambush rule (I think) but the latter seems so obviously mangled that I would hope it will be fixed in the next revision of the QS.

Not quite.

The GM would decide how easy it is for a single warrior to sneak up on someone (Difficulty 1, depending on circumstances) versus a group attempting the same task (Difficulty 3, 4, or even 5 based on circumstances).

Quote from: Jason D;882412Not quite.

The GM would decide how easy it is for a single warrior to sneak up on someone (Difficulty 1, depending on circumstances) versus a group attempting the same task (Difficulty 3, 4, or even 5 based on circumstances).

Sweet, problem solved on that one.  

Part of the issue I think is we don't have all the rules yet, so we're seeing specific examples of things and extrapolating broader application without seeing all the rules that apply those broader applications.  To be fair, though, the example doesn't use that, just declaring "As this is a normal Struggle, all tests are Simple D0".

At this point though, to save Jason's sanity, I'll shut my fucking piehole until I play the thing tonight. :cool:

Quote from: Akrasia;882307This would be great. I very likely would pick up any such systemless books.

Quote from: Teodrik;882312This would be fantastic.

Yeah, I kinda had a feeling we might get such reactions:).

Jason, is there any chance for that happening;)?

Quote from: CRKrueger;882273Cimmerians and Picts are age-old enemies.  If you're the Soviet Union, your main adversary isn't Lichtenstein.  The Cimmerians are one of the strongest, most barbaric races in Hyboria (and in Howard's world, barbarian means better).  Their age old enemy isn't a race of Mooks, it's a race that despite their smaller size and primitive technology, is even more barbaric and savage.

Think of how well the native Americans fought with bows and hatchets against rifles.  Now take away the rifles and fight them.

The Picts are a race that once they get steel, are destined to conquer most of the West.

1) All people are mooks. Some earn not to be.
2) The results likely wouldn't change, as the conquistadors have shown. The Aztecs and the Mayans weren't any worse as warriors than other Native Americans. They didn't lose to guns, despite the myth, they lost to their enemies being groups of PCs with military training and superior military organisation.
3) They get steel and military training and experience by becoming mercenaries for the people they're planning to conquer. It's called "military know-how" for a reason:D.

So yeah, Picts being mooks doesn't bother me any more than Azguli or Nemedians being mooks.

Quote from: nDervish;8822402) My image of Conan is all about kicking ass and taking names, not running around, looking for things he can dodge behind and whittle down the peons one by one.  As AsenRG said, "He avoided facing skilled enemies in numbers, whenever possible. The rabble, he just slew."

That's not what "outmanoeuvre" is. You can do it that way, but it would just as often be "jumping so your enemies are in a line and/or can't reach you". Read the fight against the locals in "Xutal of the Dusk/The Slithering Shadow". He's attacking all the time, and yet's he's using Outmanoeuvre, speaking in RQ6 mechanics.
And he's definitely facing not just mooks, but mooks who are out of practice and just woke up from drug-induced dreams.
I guess Howard was going easy on his character, knowing the big fight with the demon god is approaching:D!

QuoteOutmaneuver would definitely be the proper approach to handling a five-on-one in a realistic campaign or Conan vs. five skilled enemies, but the Rabble rule feels more appropriate to me for Conan vs. five lesser foes.  But YCMV, of course.

You can achieve the same result by giving them low skills, and introducing the following:
"You can pick whether to defend after you see the enemy's roll", and "You can use the Special Effect "Outmanouevre", allowing you to roll an Outmaneuvre action". You can trigger the Special Effect on both attack and defence;).

Just thought I would post this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/modiphius/robert-e-howards-conan-roleplaying-game/posts/1507416

Quote from: Jason D;882750Just thought I would post this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/modiphius/robert-e-howards-conan-roleplaying-game/posts/1507416

Now that is something I might pick up for the fluff.

Quote from: AsenRG;8824701) All people are mooks. Some earn not to be.

Picts and Cimmerians earned that right by surviving to adulthood in the harshest and most brutal environments and cultures in the world.  

Quote from: AsenRG;882470So yeah, Picts being mooks doesn't bother me any more than Azguli or Nemedians being mooks.

That's only because you've completely missed the entire point of Howard's "Barbarian vs. Civilization" theme, which is only present in...oh, most of Conan and Kull.

A young savage or barbarian, on his very first warparty, that's maybe a minion.  The default Pict, or default Cimmerian, you may as well say the default Spartan is a minion, it's equally inane.

Elites are more than enough to make them still "Dramatically a lesser form of being to keep narrative structure" if you, for some reason, seem hell bent on having it.

Quote from: CRKrueger;882762Picts and Cimmerians earned that right by surviving to adulthood in the harshest and most brutal environments and cultures in the world.  

That's only because you've completely missed the entire point of Howard's "Barbarian vs. Civilization" theme, which is only present in...oh, most of Conan and Kull.

A young savage or barbarian, on his very first warparty, that's maybe a minion.  The default Pict, or default Cimmerian, you may as well say the default Spartan is a minion, it's equally inane.

So then how did a young Bossonian woodsman with no kills to his name take out at least nine of these guys? Did Slasher do all the work?

Quote from: Jason D;882750Just thought I would post this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/modiphius/robert-e-howards-conan-roleplaying-game/posts/1507416

Valka!

Kull, Brule the Spear Slayer and Thulsa Doom...and slithering in the shadows the Snakes-that-Speak...

Ka nama kaa lajerama!

Jesus Wept, that was a score, what else do you guys have hiding, Solomon Kane?

Quote from: CRKrueger;882767Valka!

Kull, Brule the Spear Slayer and Thulsa Doom...and slithering in the shadows the Snakes-that-Speak...

Ka nama kaa lajerama!

Jesus Wept, that was a score, what else do you guys have hiding, Solomon Kane?

Nope. Solomon Kane is still (as far as I can imagine) at home with Pinnacle.

We were asked by fans about Bran Mak Morn, which would be interesting, but also isn't on our schedule.

Quote from: Jason D;882764So then how did a young Bossonian woodsman with no kills to his name take out at least nine of these guys? Did Slasher do all the work?

1. You'd have to show me where Howard says Balthus has no kills to his name before he entered Conajohara, because I sure can't find it.
2. He wasn't unblooded at that final battle, since he had killed Picts with Conan earlier.
3. If we're assuming 9, Slasher did kill 3 of those 9 by himself before the fight started, so we're back to 2 vs. 6 (but by the time the fight was at the end, more Picts had probably arrived from Tuscelan).
4. Slasher and Balthus were working together with their backs to a stand of logs.
5. Of course the most important thing is this:

Your contention is that Picts as minions or even worse, a Mob of minions accurately models Beyond the Black River, but in Nathan's own combat example here's the comparison...

Beyond the Black River - 2 kill 6 and both die.
Combat Example using Minions - 3 kill 8 without a scratch.

Now, I'm not exactly sure I would call that a satisfying representation, would you...really?

Pretty sure you could make all the Picts in the combat example Elites and the PCs would still win, but it would be a tough fight, and something straight out of Beyond the Black River.  The Mob of Minions works for sailors in a bar, or street thugs in the Maul, not for a more savage and barbaric level of foe.

Yeah I hate Mooks, but I'm looking at the system for what it's trying to do. I'm not saying don't use them, I'm not even saying don't use them narratively, I'm saying that when you use them narratively, you still have to use them properly and not have the standard go-to fight in this game be PCs vs. Mobs of Minions, no matter what type of foe it is.

You have to discriminate, and keep true to the tales.  Your system does not model Picts out of BtBR if you treat them as Mobs of minions, as your combat example itself shows.

I know it's a Quickstart and a Combat Example, and the rules aren't all there, and you're not looking as closely as you will for the final adventures.

But the assumption that every human in the world that doesn't have a name is a Minion is a major failing of other systems that do use Mook rules.

Quote from: Jason D;882769Nope. Solomon Kane is still (as far as I can imagine) at home with Pinnacle.

We were asked by fans about Bran Mak Morn, which would be interesting, but also isn't on our schedule.

Interesting.  Since Pinnacle usually does a "few books and out" approach, I figured they wouldn't have gotten such a long license.

Just for the hell of it, I'm going to run the Combat Example three ways, one with each group of Picts having an...

• Elite, with a 3 Minion Mob
• Elite, with 3 Minions unmobbed
• 4 Elites

Will post the results.

Quote from: CRKrueger;882772Interesting.  Since Pinnacle usually does a "few books and out" approach, I figured they wouldn't have gotten such a long license.

I assume they've still got the license, as the books are still available through their webstore.