Well, this is good news for 4e players.
The new web-based character builder will launch with support for Essentials and the long awaited and terribly overdue material for Dark Sun.
And Mac users will be able to play now, since it is web-based.
Hopefully, it will be good upon launch and won't be buggy as hell.
Note that we're losing the ability to export characters, which is a pretty significant loss. I believe them when they say they're adding it back in soon, but the longer the delay there the sadder I am.
The cloud stuff is also a tradeoff, in that you need an Internet connection to use it. I do know a couple of people who bring netbooks to a non-Wifi enabled gaming store to play. So you win some, you lose some. On the whole I'm rather pleased, though.
Why does it have to be so much fucking trouble though?
Because this is WotC? I mean seriously...
I'm surprised it is coming out so quickly.
I guess the integration issues were less trouble than I had previously thought.
Mea Culpa.
Well it's easier to integrate something when it's effectively brand new. :P
May give this a looky since im looking for more essentials type stuff for my upcomng campaign and assassin looks fun.
This sucks. It's web-only, which means I can only access it when I have Internet access and it's based on Silverlight, an already dying platform that won't run on my iPad or my older laptop. A win all around.
I agree with Anthony. I have a hard time seeing any of this as a good thing beyond the short term "Dark Sun and Essentials will be available in builder-format now."
Quote from: Benoist;413428I agree with Anthony. I have a hard time seeing any of this as a good thing beyond the short term "Dark Sun and Essentials will be available in builder-format now."
I'm going to wait and see how it functions. I'm not so concerned with Internet access as much as I am printing out, saving, and creating characters. If it's harder, then...grrr.
For example, some of the changes they made to the Monster Builder actually made it more difficult to modify and create your own monster. It was an awesome tool, now it's just a good one.
Seanchai
Why the heck would they make it tougher to make your own monster? Back when it was clear the MM1 monsters were all wrong, I pretty much made every monster in the game.
Quote from: AnthonyRoberson;413427This sucks. It's web-only, which means I can only access it when I have Internet access and it's based on Silverlight, an already dying platform that won't run on my iPad or my older laptop. A win all around.
It could be worse- it could be in flash.
Is this another case of:
"The customer can fuck off, because they can't do anything about it! Ha Ha Ha !!!"
?
:banghead: :rolleyes:
Quote from: mhensley;413470It could be worse- it could be in flash.
Even if it was done in flash, eventually somebody will find ways to circumvent and defeat it.
Some feedback from users on the WotC boards:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/26182237/November_16th_Release_for_Web-based_Character_Builder_-_Discussion
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/26182565/So_Paolo_lied_to_everybody
Quote from: PaladinCA;413342And Mac users will be able to play now, since it is web-based.
/doubletake
Wait, what? Obviously, I'm not keeping up with all this new stuff, but I gotta know... the current/old DDI stuff wasn't Mac-friendly?
Wonder if this will lead to tons of DDI cancellations, and significantly reduced online revenue. :rolleyes:
The aftermath could be more heads being rolled in the IT and marketing divisions, in an early mid-2011 WotC layoffs season.
Maybe they don't care because design on 5th edition already started.
Quote from: ggroy;413485Wonder if this will lead to tons of DDI cancellations, and significantly reduced online revenue. :rolleyes:.
I'd guess that quite a large number of their "subscribers" were probably just signing up for a month, downloading everything and then unsubscribe. That's certainly what I would have done if I would have ever tried it. They'll probably lose the bulk of those accounts.
Quote from: Benoist;413486Maybe they don't care because design on 5th edition already started.
Let the countdown begin. :D
5E D&D announcement at Gencon 2012.
Quote from: mhensley;413487I'd guess that quite a large number of their "subscribers" were probably just signing up for a month, downloading everything and then unsubscribe. That's certainly what I would have done if I would have ever tried it. They'll probably lose the bulk of those accounts.
I knew several 4E players from my previous 4E games, who did exactly that.
Two of them mentioned to me they have absolutely no intention of using any 4E Essentials rulebooks, nor any future rulebooks which they think are too "Essentials"-like (whatever they mean by that). I would guess as far as they're concerned, Heinsoo 4E D&D is a "complete" system to them with a final DDI character builder up to August 2010 (excluding Dark Sun).
What if Dragon and Dungeon go "online only" as well?
Quote from: Benoist;413491What if Dragon and Dungeon go "online only" as well?
Hmmm ... As in restricting which particular issues can be accessed? (ie. Going away from a flat rate subscription).
Quote from: ggroy;413492Hmmm ... As in restricting which particular issues can be accessed? (ie. Going away from a flat rate subscription).
Like "no PDFs". Everything online. Has to be accessed with a live Internet connection, iPad, whatnot.
Quote from: Benoist;413495Like "no PDFs". Everything online. Has to be accessed with a live Internet connection, iPad, whatnot.
Good question.
If the web pages are not prevented from bring printable, in principle they can be copied. Albeit a tedious process.
If there are all kinds of DRM and other crap making it hard to copy or print directly, then it would involve fishing around a web browser's cache to get and save the content. Another messy process. It would be like trying to retrieve the flv video files off of youtube, if one wants to save them on disk.
Quote from: Benoist;413486Maybe they don't care because design on 5th edition already started.
Update your damn Gamma World Blog already. :D
Quote from: ggroy;413488Let the countdown begin. :D
5E D&D announcement at Gencon 2012.
Ha!! Try Gencon 2011. Essentials is pretty much the Windows Me of 4th edition.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;413502Ha!! Try Gencon 2011. Essentials is pretty much the Windows Me of 4th edition.
Or SunOS 4.1.4
The calm during the storm.
Quote from: CRKrueger;413501Update your damn Gamma World Blog already. :D
Let me get Election Night out of the way first. It's like watching the Superbowl, for me. :)
Well, I just sent out my email to my group saying that I will not allow any use of the new character builder to create or maintain characters for my campaign.
This is bullshit and I absolutely refuse to go along with WotC's crap on this.
Quote from: jgants;413507Well, I just sent out my email to my group saying that I will not allow any use of the new character builder to create or maintain characters for my campaign.
For most practical purposes, the old 4E DDI character builder is "complete" (short of Dark Sun).
With that being said, watch the web based DDI character builder being used as the basis for 5E D&D, where all the old Heinsoo 4E D&D stuff (ie. June 2008 -> August 2010 Psionic Power) is deleted on the day 5E is released.
Quote from: jgants;413507Well, I just sent out my email to my group saying that I will not allow any use of the new character builder to create or maintain characters for my campaign.
Do they normally send you the Character Builder files for their characters? I'm struggling to understand why it would matter how they build their characters as long as they're complete, appropriate for the game, and legal...
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;413509Do they normally send you the Character Builder files for their characters? I'm struggling to understand why it would matter how they build their characters as long as they're complete, appropriate for the game, and legal...
Back when I was DM'ing 4E, I didn't use the DDI character builder myself.
Though I allowed just about anything that was "legally" created by the DDI character builder, for the most part.
Doesnt bother me as I only like Essentials and if you cant make an Essentials character in under 20 minutes you shouldn't be playing ANY RPG period, especially not a detailed Braunstein game like this.
The only use of the chargen for Essentials is for having all your powers and shit typed out for you in case you cant fucking be bothered to carry a trade paperback sized book with you to the game.
Quote from: Captain Rufus;413515Doesnt bother me as I only like Essentials and if you cant make an Essentials character in under 20 minutes you shouldn't be playing ANY RPG period, especially not a detailed Braunstein game like this.
The only use of the chargen for Essentials is for having all your powers and shit typed out for you in case you cant fucking be bothered to carry a trade paperback sized book with you to the game.
This would be fine for a game using only the "Heroes of the Fallen Lands" book.
It may be a different story when players want to use subsequent 2011 4E books, such as "Heroes of Shadow", "Heroes of Sword and Spell", "Champions of Heroic Tier", etc ... I wouldn't be surprised by the time it is late 2012, the Mearls version of 4E D&D (ie. after 4E PHB3) becomes a huge bloated mess of feats, classes, powers, etc ...
Quote from: ggroy;413516It may be a different story when players want to use subsequent 2011 4E books, such as "Heroes of Shadow", "Heroes of Sword and Spell", "Champions of Heroic Tier", etc ... I wouldn't be surprised by the time it is late 2012, the Mearls version of 4E D&D (ie. after 4E PHB3) becomes a huge bloated mess of feats, classes, powers, etc ...
This is where, at some point, as a DM, you need to grow a pair, put on your Viking Hat and just say: "No. Fuck that. We are using this, this, and that book. Not anything after that. Got a problem with that? Run the game yourself."
Quote from: Benoist;413517This is where, at some point, as a DM, you need to grow a pair, put on your Viking Hat and just say: "No. Fuck that. We are using this, this, and that book. Not anything after that. Got a problem with that? Run the game yourself."
Yup.
At least this time around, there is one book with mainly the classic D&D classes and races.
Quote from: ggroy;413518Yup.
At least this time around, there is one book with mainly the classic D&D classes and races.
I agree. That's the positive aspect of the compartmentalization of the material in the Heroes books.
Quote from: Seanchai;413509Do they normally send you the Character Builder files for their characters? I'm struggling to understand why it would matter how they build their characters as long as they're complete, appropriate for the game, and legal...
In my case, yes, most of them do. At least half the group has me more or less manage their characters for them.
My reasoning for not allowing the new character builder is simple - I refuse to use and pay for it, and nothing I don't own is allowed in my campaign. I will not have some people using new rules and some people using old rules - either we're all using the same version of the rules or I'm not running the game.
So, my campaign will now run under whatever version of the rules I had the last time I updated. No more WotC rule updates will be honored. No more new book or DDI content will be allowed. Simple as that.
Quote from: Benoist;413517This is where, at some point, as a DM, you need to grow a pair, put on your Viking Hat and just say: "No. Fuck that. We are using this, this, and that book. Not anything after that. Got a problem with that? Run the game yourself."
This is exactly what I'm doing. I'm not running a game like this without a program to verify all of the math is correct. It's just not something I'm going to do.
Quote from: jgants;413529So, my campaign will now run under whatever version of the rules I had the last time I updated.
Can't you get the list of updates off the website?
Seanchai
WotC to non-web older DDI character builder users: drop dead.
Quote from: ggroy;413647WotC to non-web older DDI character builder users: drop dead.
I know! How dare they change their product to something that better suits them!
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;413678I know! How dare they change their product to something that better suits them!
Seanchai
How dare the consumer complain when the product does not better suit their interest?!