Quote from: CalithenaHere's what I'd do:

- No monster manual, and no rules for letting people make their own monsters at all.

- Instead, you buy prepainted plastics with monster cards to populate your dungeon...

- Which is made out of cheapo plastic versions of the dwarven forge type dungeons, that you also have to pay for, which is the only way to do traps, etc.

In other words, a Heroquest-type game with modular parts and long-term character development.

I think that would make WotC sales drop to the Underdark(pun intended).

Quote from: CalithenaHere's what I'd do:

- No monster manual, and no rules for letting people make their own monsters at all.

- Instead, you buy prepainted plastics with monster cards to populate your dungeon...

- Which is made out of cheapo plastic versions of the dwarven forge type dungeons, that you also have to pay for, which is the only way to do traps, etc.

In other words, a Heroquest-type game with modular parts and long-term character development.

Wizkids alreay tried a game like that with the Mage Knight Dungeons line.

It failed.  Badly.

Yeah, but Hasbro already has Heroscape. They can use their existing fabrication facilties. If they ramp that up a bit, add some dungeon dressing, they're in business. They'll have downloadable cards. Y'know--if you subscribe to that module of their online service. You could use the figures for either game.

D&D will be like Windows Vista. The printed core books will be analogous to your preloaded windows. Anything you actually want to use or go deep on will be available for a modest subscription, chunk by chunk. I'm not even sure that I'm cynical about this anymore. They need to market the game for the pacesetters of the now generation--and this might be the best, most consistent and efficient way to do it. Kids don't love print the way us old guys do.

Quote from: stu2000Yeah, but Hasbro already has Heroscape. They can use their existing fabrication facilties. If they ramp that up a bit, add some dungeon dressing, they're in business. They'll have downloadable cards. Y'know--if you subscribe to that module of their online service. You could use the figures for either game.

D&D will be like Windows Vista. The printed core books will be analogous to your preloaded windows. Anything you actually want to use or go deep on will be available for a modest subscription, chunk by chunk. I'm not even sure that I'm cynical about this anymore. They need to market the game for the pacesetters of the now generation--and this might be the best, most consistent and efficient way to do it. Kids don't love print the way us old guys do.

It won't work.  For the same reason that MKD didn't work:  Too many vectors of collectibility.

The more different types of components you need, the more the random grab bag approach and the collectible approach become a major hindrance to actually attempt to play the game.

You're talking about needing seperate miniatures for players, for monsters, tiles for dungeon layouts, traps, treasure, doors, rules cards.  

It's not practical, and Wizards isn't that stupid.

I agree that if it were a random grab-bag, it would be a nuisance. But I think they'll carefully plan releases in non-random 'waves,' similar to Heroscape. You subscribe to a campaign path on their site, you download the print materials, they mail you the plastic. It would feel like subscribing to an ongoing, networked boardgame. There will be epic rpga meta-plots and prizes.

They will find strategies to cross-purpose all their figure releases. They will be lauded for providing support to busy gamers, for a new and innovative means of streamlining their operation, and for letting the players and GMs who preferred to make up their own stuff just keep merrily on doing that. There's no percentage in continuing to support a product that never becomes obselete. There're unquestionably going to merge our ideas of role-playing, board games, and computer games. It will be a subscription model. I think it'll be great for the kids. I'll keep playing 1st ed/Arduin. But the kids will love it. It'll be fancy.

I think whatever direction they take prepainted figures will feature heavily. They're just too profitable to ignore.

Quote from: stu2000I agree that if it were a random grab-bag, it would be a nuisance. But I think they'll carefully plan releases in non-random 'waves,'

Which reminds me that Games Workshop once tried to tie the Warhammer FRP to their miniatures line. Back when WFRP was new there would be miniature releases based on RPG supplements, eg, monsters and npc's from "Shadows over Bögenhafen".

Didn't work out back then, and eventually GW discontinued WFRP.

But this plastic miniatues/online subscription model might work out in today's environment.
I wonder what impact this wound have upon the existing online communities like RPGnet/RPGsite/etc. As far as I have noticed there are masses of players with no interest in accessing the net for their RPG hobby. Most RPG players are perfectly happy playing in their basements, with only the GM visiting a store every other month for a module or a magazine. Most don't have contact to other groups and the whole blogosphere and discussions in forums like this one (let alone the Forge) are gibberish to them, bearing no relevance to their actual play.
I wonder what it would do to this fractured greater gamer "non-community" when they have to access the internet for their gaming materials...

People have been predicting this since day 1 of the Wizards purchase of TSR.

It has yet to happen.  

Some people, however, are absolutely determined to believe it, regardless of how ridiculous it sounds, and similarly determined to spread the rumor that it might, regardless of practicality, lack of evidence, or how wrong it's been every other time the accusation has been made over the past near-decade since Wizards bought the company.  

And they never seem to be D&D fans . . .

I'm a huge D&D fan, so you can't pin that one on me.

(I have more to say about this but no time right now - J Arcane is probably right but I think there are some interesting possibilities for Wizards along this line, I'll discuss in more detail when I can.)

Quote from: CalithenaHere's what I'd do:

- No monster manual, and no rules for letting people make their own monsters at all.

- Instead, you buy prepainted plastics with monster cards to populate your dungeon...

- Which is made out of cheapo plastic versions of the dwarven forge type dungeons, that you also have to pay for, which is the only way to do traps, etc.

In other words, a Heroquest-type game with modular parts and long-term character development.

"hi, here's my fantasy of how D&D could be screwed up so much that nobody would want to play it anymore!"

Quote from: CalithenaI'm a huge D&D fan, so you can't pin that one on me.

When you say D&D fan, you mean of previous editionss, right?

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiWhen you say D&D fan, you mean of previous editionss, right?

Seanchai

Damnit, you beat me to it.

Quote from: stu2000. I think it'll be great for the kids. I'll keep playing 1st ed/Arduin. But the kids will love it. It'll be fancy.

this is by and large why I don't think it will happen- there are no kids, not really, and WoTC still needs YOUR buck. I think it would be insane for them to desert their core audience.

I think the other thing that people aren't getting is that D&D already has it's collectibility vector, and it's the same one that's been in use by countless RPGs since, well, since D&D was first released:  The sourcebook.

The miniatures are by and large a side bet, and unnecessary for actual play, unlike the myriad components of Mage Knight Dungeons, for example.  The game can be played as is without them, or with other company's miniatures just fine, and similarly, the miniatures can be played by themselves as well.  The necessity of miniatures in D&D is widely overstated, and no more an issue with the present version than it has been with any prior edition of the game, despite the determination of the RC-fanatic types to distort the truth of the game's history.

Hee hee. I'm getting off this thread rather than getting devoured by you norkers. To respond briefly though:

- Yes, I prefer OD&D, Holmes Basic, and Mentzer Basic/Expert/etc. to the current edition. I did have some good times with 3e though.

- My original thought was totally not 'here's what I want' but 'here's a thought about how to suck the most money possible out of the public', which is what I take it is Ha$bro's goal with their product.

- That said, J Arcane is right that Mage Knight: Dungeons didn't work. However, the D&D name, the wide assortment of monsters, increased character customization, long-term play, etc. are all assets that MKD (and Descent, Heroquest, Dungeon, etc. etc.) don't have, and it seems that with the increased availability of cheap cool toys there might be a way to make a more profitable product there. Only way to know is to try.

- Since I don't want such a product myself, have no way to continue the discussion in terms of better information, and don't feel like fighting with all of you, that's all I've got to say. I'm having way more fun developing my next D&D campaign instead.