OK, lets assume that the (unproven) internet rumor that Star Wars Saga :est:  is a testing ground for new rules that are going to be in a 4th edition of D&D is true.:woop:

Lets assume that D&D 4th edition will be officially announced at this Gen Con for release at next years Gen Con (not  an unreasonable expectation...but not the point of this thread).

So I'm looking at the current line of D&D supplemental material, and, to be honest, it's a mess.  Tons and tons of books without any real rhyme or reason :idunno: .  Very daunting for the new player, or anyone, really, who hasn't been collecting every single book since day one.  Where does one go to get what they want?  Say you buy a book on a certain aspect you find interesting...BAM, you have as many pages on one subject as you do in the entire players handbook threatening to take over your game....but that isn't really the point of this thread either, but it does lead into it....

How could WotC improve the model they use for their supplement line when D&D 4th comes out, and they have a chance to start all over?:duh:

Myself, I would like to see them return to a more basic approach.  The Dungeon Crawl Classics line comes to mind, with each new adventure being numbered.  I wouldn't mind if every new adventure for D&D4th had a consistent appearance, and a sequential number like the DCC ones.  That way you always know what you have and what you don't at a glance.:hmm:

But why stop there?  They could do the same thing for their other supplement lines by simply subdividing them into a manageable number of categories.  Characters, Game Master, Forgotten Realms, Monsters, ect.  With each book having a consistent appearance (perhaps color coordinated) for its line, and a sequential number.

There would still be eventual bloat :fat:  (It's what WotC does to make money), but I think it would be much more manageable presented in this way.

Anyone have any other "brilliant" ideas? :emot-eng101:

P.S.  Yeah, I know, too much fun with the smileys! :boobs:

Quote from: grubmanLets assume that D&D 4th edition will be officially announced at this Gen Con for release at next years Gen Con (not  an unreasonable expectation...but not the point of this thread).

Yes, it is an unrealistic expectation, on many levels.
For starters, WoTC has already announced that they have planned their released up to 2009 and have NO plan to release 4th Edition before then.  The absolute earliest you could in theory even imagine a 4th edition of D&D will be 2010.

Second, WoTC has also said they are no longer making major announcements about D&D at Gencon.  They're doing such announcements at the "D&D Experience" con instead.

How could WotC improve the model they use for their supplement line when D&D 4th comes out, and they have a chance to start all over?:duh:

QuoteThere would still be eventual bloat :fat:  (It's what WotC does to make money), but I think it would be much more manageable presented in this way.

Anyone have any other "brilliant" ideas? :emot-eng101:

P.S.  Yeah, I know, too much fun with the smileys! :boobs:

Rules bloat is pretty much inevitable.  I for one would find it so much better if there was a lot more "random tables" bloat, ie. optional stuff and "flavour" rules rather than actual character mechanic bloat.

RPGPundit

QuoteThey could do the same thing for their other supplement lines by simply subdividing them into a manageable number of categories. Characters, Game Master, Forgotten Realms, Monsters, ect. With each book having a consistent appearance (perhaps color coordinated) for its line, and a sequential number.

Actually, that´s what it is like right now!
What´s your point:confused:

Well, they don't have those sequential numbers anymore. But apart from abbreviation, I really don't see a big advantage of "FR0815: Haberdashers of Faerun" vs. plain "Haberdashers of Faerun"...

Quote from: RPGPunditRules bloat is pretty much inevitable.  I for one would find it so much better if there was a lot more "random tables" bloat, ie. optional stuff and "flavour" rules rather than actual character mechanic bloat.

I'd like to see 'Options Bloat' divided into distinct strata, eg. 'Grim & Gritty,' 'Epic Powermongering' etc. Hopefully it'd ameliorate the kind of power creep that inevitably happens when a game reaches a certain supplement threshold.

Quote from: RPGPunditYes, it is an unrealistic expectation, on many levels.
For starters, WoTC has already announced that they have planned their released up to 2009 and have NO plan to release 4th Edition before then.  The absolute earliest you could in theory even imagine a 4th edition of D&D will be 2010.

Where did you get this from?  Unless they changed thier "official" stance, the last quote I read was that they had 3.5 products planned "through 2008".  Next Gen Con will be in the year 2008, so it's not really that far fetched.

Quote from: SettembriniActually, that´s what it is like right now!
What´s your point:confused:

Not really.  Lets say you want to play some goofy monster race, and want a prestige class for such race?  Where do you look now without going on the internet to try and get the answers?  

However, if you knew right to go to the "characters" line, it would be as simple as looking down an index in the back of each book.  Characters #35:  Monster characters and prestige classes.

It's just one mans opinion.  The supplement system of D&D right now is a mess, worse by far than 2nd edition...and that edition seems to recieve more complaints (for some reason).

But, if someone has a better Idea, I'd love to hear it...that's what the thread is about.

?Huh?
The books are colour coded.
There is a characters line.
It´s the brown ones, frex.

AD&D2 doesn't get much flack for it's supplements. AD&D2 gets flack because it was awful.

For D&D3.5, I guess I still don't see the issue. There's a certain amount of "Hey, what book is that feat/spell/prestige class in?" but they also publish the Consolidated List right here -->

 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/lists

That will tell you where every feat, spell, monster, invocation, prestige class,
and base class is by book and page number. It gets updated everytime there's a new release.

A numbering system similar to the one you describe is being used for RPGA adventures, though.

Quote from: RPGPunditYes, it is an unrealistic expectation, on many levels.
For starters, WoTC has already announced that they have planned their released up to 2009 and have NO plan to release 4th Edition before then.  The absolute earliest you could in theory even imagine a 4th edition of D&D will be 2010.

True, on the other hand I seem to remember that they didn't suddenly stop making new 2nd Edition supplements while 3E was being designed and playtested. A - woefully underplaytested - 4th Edition could conceivably appear at any point in time where the current 3E release timetable runs out of products.

Hence, of course, the perpetual rumours: there's always a timetable you can point to and say "here, where the 3E products stop appearing, is where we'll see 4th Edition".

Quote from: Settembrini?Huh?
The books are colour coded.
There is a characters line.
It´s the brown ones, frex.

I never noticed that.  Now I feel stupid.  Vielen Dank.

However, I think grubman means that it should be consistent through lines as well.  Are the Forgotten Realms character books brown?  I only buy core stuff.

Color-coded...I'm such a maroon!

Quote from: joewolzAre the Forgotten Realms character books brown?  I only buy core stuff.

Color-coded...I'm such a maroon!

No, FR books are Ivory.
Eberron is purpleish.

huh.

It's something I noticed, but never thought about. So so true Sett! Maybe you just didn't notice how organized things are Grub.

Quote from: joewolzI never noticed that.  Now I feel stupid.  Viel Danken.

However, I think grubman means that it should be consistent through lines as well.  Are the Forgotten Realms character books brown?  I only buy core stuff.

Color-coded...I'm such a maroon!

Forgotten Realms books are white/grey.

Eberron books are black.

Books meant for DM's are blue.

"Content" books are green. Sandstorm, frostburn, dungeonscape.. etc.

There is a line I think of as the "boutique" books which have unique covers. So Libris Mortis, Draconomicon, Tome of Magic.. all have wrap-around paintings for their covers.

Quote from: WarthurTrue, on the other hand I seem to remember that they didn't suddenly stop making new 2nd Edition supplements while 3E was being designed and playtested. A - woefully underplaytested - 4th Edition could conceivably appear at any point in time where the current 3E release timetable runs out of products.

Hence, of course, the perpetual rumours: there's always a timetable you can point to and say "here, where the 3E products stop appearing, is where we'll see 4th Edition".

The Diablo books for D&D were released with 2e rules right as 3e was coming out, damn near anyway.

Here's what I'd do:

- No monster manual, and no rules for letting people make their own monsters at all.

- Instead, you buy prepainted plastics with monster cards to populate your dungeon...

- Which is made out of cheapo plastic versions of the dwarven forge type dungeons, that you also have to pay for, which is the only way to do traps, etc.

In other words, a Heroquest-type game with modular parts and long-term character development.