By itself, it's not a horrible idea. I actually like (and have used) the concept of letting characters gain unique powers/spells/equipment from taking a pilgrimage to some famous temple, learning from a legendary teacher, gazing too deep into the abyss, or what have you. It is a great way to motivate players and make them feel cool because it is special and rare and it is theirs alone, and By God They Have Earned It. It has also been around since Runequest, and possibly even Empire of the Petal Throne, mainly for spells and spell-like abilities, but if a system has feats, prestige classes or 4e-like powers, well, they are fair game too.

The problem is not the raw idea, it is that it is tied to a distasteful part of the already disagreeable Forgotten Realms canon, and presented in an extra-cheesy style.

Or I may be missing something deeper.

Quote from: Melan;474694By itself, it's not a horrible idea. I actually like (and have used) the concept of letting characters gain unique powers/spells/equipment from taking a pilgrimage to some famous temple, learning from a legendary teacher, gazing too deep into the abyss, or what have you. It is a great way to motivate players and make them feel cool because it is special and rare and it is theirs alone, and By God They Have Earned It. It has also been around since Runequest, and possibly even Empire of the Petal Throne, mainly for spells and spell-like abilities, but if a system has feats, prestige classes or 4e-like powers, well, they are fair game too.

The problem is not the raw idea, it is that it is tied to a distasteful part of the already disagreeable Forgotten Realms canon, and presented in an extra-cheesy style.

Or I may be missing something deeper.

nah, i think you're spot-on with that.  poor choice of terms, IMO--"unlock" is just too videogamey.  perhaps simply "can learn" or something else would be much better.

Well, love FR or hate it, Drizz't (sp)? is at least a recognizable part of FR.
 
I can see why the 'special move unlock' thing is hateable though: its a peculiar marriage of plot and mechanics that leads the game to dubious places.
Min/maxers out there are already probably already lining up for quests to find Driz'zt and replotting out feat chains to exploit synergy between Driz'zts Kick and the 'I Crush Your Face' feat, or alternatively have consigned it to the bin as less good that the 'Greater Stunlock XV' power.
 
If it is more powerful that usual powers, as an 'uncommon' power, it may count as marketing the book through power creep, though that's nothing new. And I imagine that to keep game balance they would probably use the retraining rules, so that after you learn Driz'zts kick you forget something else

QuoteI'm currently running an FRCG Loudwater campaign, the reason it is going well is that it gave me a clear intro point with the Loudwater stuff beginning with Raid on Loudwater, a linear intro scenario, two more single-encounter adventures (great idea, worked brilliant in play), and ideas for further adventures.

Raid on Loudwater has the stopping power of a 120mm M1A2's round fired at point-blank. I have this clear recollection of me, vacationing in  Washington D.C., enjoying the summer with a just bought copy of the FR 4E. I was physically stunned by the landscapes of stupidity opened by that (so called) adventure. It took the collapse of Lehman Brothers a few weeks later to beat that, and only barely.

There is a detailed analysis elsewhere, but basically the approach is that the players are morons who eat anything. Not the characters, but the actual players! - which, in all fairness, is the correct approach if you want to introduce people to 4E.

Quote from: beeber;474697nah, i think you're spot-on with that.  poor choice of terms, IMO--"unlock" is just too videogamey.  perhaps simply "can learn" or something else would be much better.

To be fair, "unlock" isn't a term the book uses, it's the one I used to describe the vibe it gave off at this point to me.

Zach's "letting the kids ride the panther" and Melan's "if the PCs have earned it" nail it though. Unlocking achievements is a really good mechanism, it should be propagated more widely. But when so propagated, it should be executed in style and wit.

Quote from: Windjammer;474743To be fair, "unlock" isn't a term the book uses, it's the one I used to describe the vibe it gave off at this point to me.

ah, thanks for the clarification

Hmm... Interesting: Gallant does seem to be a socialist and against foreign intervention... I guess that Western fundamentalist values changed a lot in the last 70 years

Quote from: Reckall;474746Hmm... Interesting: Gallant does seem to be a socialist and against foreign intervention... I guess that Western fundamentalist values changed a lot in the last 70 years

There is a significant departure from the basic moral values we teach our children in the US, and those espoused by the general political ideal of adults.  Indeed, I have seen this disconnect used at times to dismiss such basic values as childish.

Wonder what they will have in store for players who want to hang around Elminster (or his remains).  :rolleyes:

"Ride the panther" becomes "ride the beard". Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. :hatsoff:

Quote from: Windjammer;474743Zach's "letting the kids ride the panther" and Melan's "if the PCs have earned it" nail it though. Unlocking achievements is a really good mechanism, it should be propagated more widely. But when so propagated, it should be executed in style and wit.

I think that's more to the point. It isn't a horrible idea in and of itself; after all, few people would argue that characters should be able to gain new skills or abilities after investing the proper time with a master. It's just poor writing and cheesy presentation.

It also still gives that vibe that I really dislike in the Realms; NPCs A, B, and C are uniformly awesome and important, and if your character is very, very lucky, they might deign to notice them for a few minutes.

Hang on.  I thought that the whole idea of 4eRealms was to stop PCs from being overshadowed by NPCs?

Quote from: Koltar;473262Did they forget about Waterdeep?

I was going to suggest the City-State of the Invincible Overlord (Judges Guild, 1976) but yours is actually funnier since it's a TSR/WotC product!

There have been so many fucking city-books, and so many published by TSR, or even WoTC, that its not even funny.  This is the sort of stupid-ass shit someone desperately needs to be fired for.

RPGPundit

I can't believe they wrote a press release for their own book and somehow managed not to address the history of roleplaying. Don't they know what press releases are for?