Quote from: jeff37923;1112003It's OK, he got confused over my use of the word "majority" too, but he is a Corporate Attorney so I guess that goes along with the job description......

To be fair, only a majority of people did not understand you.  The other 66% knew exactly what you ment by majority.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111994You need to grab a dictionary and look up the word popular

You said this


Which is the exact definition of the word popular, hence a tautology.

Ah, I understand your mistake now. Things can be popular but not well liked. Popular meaning high sales. Based on marketing, quite a number of things hit the level of popularity but were not well liked. The Transformers movies. The Star Wars prequels. It's why I said some things are popular because they are liked, but the corollary is that some other things are popular despite not many people liking them. Popular, in economic terms, is sales.

5e is popular (sold a lot) because people like it. The Michael Bay movie Pearl Harbor was popular (sold a lot) but not because people liked it. Not a tautology. Things can be both popular but not well liked. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Quote from: jeff37923;1112003It's OK, he got confused over my use of the word "majority" too, but he is a Corporate Attorney so I guess that goes along with the job description......

Literally nobody here agreed that your definition of majority meant minority. Not one person agreed with you regardless of their background. You were confusing the concept of plurality and majority, many people pointed it out to you, you said maybe but everyone knew what you meant and that somehow meant you were correct instead of them interpreting your babble.

''Quote Originally Posted by BoxCrayonTales
Ironically, a lot of the current original works that languish in obscurity will probably develop cult followings down the line and receive massively successful sequels/remakes/reboots in twenty to forty years from now.''

I forsee this happening to the movie John Carter, reallly liked it and it bombed. Go figure.

As for rpgs reboots and new renditions do happen and its debatable if they bring anything new to the table(your mileage may vary). Its always good to have new reinterpretations of existing ideas but sequelitis can sour even the best nostalgia feel.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1111724There seems to be a trend of new projects trying to claim a connection with classic properties even when they have nothing to do with them. With this new Watchmen it sounds like there's an obvious heavy handed culture wars agenda going on, but I've seen it without that.

Arguably the most unapologetic version of this I've seen was the Master Of Orion III PC game where the devs slammed MOO2 hard. Fans got into an uproar and the MOO3 devs just doubled down. It got so bad the MOO2 devs just began asking "Why did you agree to work on this property if you hated it so much?"

Metacritic Scores:

MOO2 (User Score 9.0, Universal acclaim)
MOO3 (User Score 4.2, Generally unfavorable reviews)

Quote from: jeff37923;1112003It's OK, he got confused over my use of the word "majority" too, but he is a Corporate Attorney so I guess that goes along with the job description......

A corporate attorney...that explains a lot.

Quote from: Brad;1112058A corporate attorney...that explains a lot.

I run a graduation cap and gown manufacturing company but Jeff would like you to focus on the fact I am also an attorney who handles a few cases a year these days.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1111931A big problem with the current markets is that original works typically don't do well enough to justify making them. For every breakout success there are hundreds of failures that languish in obscurity. That is why sequels/remakes/reboots have been big business for the last decade. That is why creators have to hijack existing brand names.
.

And also because as the industry becomes more converged; the "creators" (all SJW's to some degree) just do not know how to create original stories with characters that normal people would actually like.

If you believe that half the countries voters are racist bigots for voting for Trump, and you feel that you have to push that agenda in everything that you do, how could you possibly write an original story that wouldn't alienate half of your potential audience?

So, they go with what has worked in the past... (and even then they can still fuck it up.)

There is also the larger issue that many SJW's have no cultural references pre-harry potter, they do not have an adequate grasp of historical myth, heroic archetypes, and human morality to create an interesting original story anyway.

Quote from: Mistwell;1111991LOL that had nothing to do with woke bitching on the Internet or ANY bitching on the Internet. I am not saying sales don't matter - of course they do. We're talking about a context where sales for 5e are astronomically high. A handful of guys complaining on message boards isn't touching that. OBVIOUSLY.

If the argument is, as you suggest, Voting with your money is irrelevant, pointless, valueless, accomplishing nothing or however you chose to phrase it, a counter example where voting with money actually works is relevant. WHY people voted with money is a side show.  You're trying to make a semantics argument that has nothing to do with anything.

Regarding the gangbusters sales of 5e, and a 'handful of guys complaining on message boards', again I'll refer to, as I already brought up, Star Wars, which I think I can safely assume is bigger than any single edition of D&D, or even all editions of D&D put together.

And Star Wars is fucking DYING. Becuase a handful of guys bitching on the internet are tired of Woke Shenannigans and, lo and behold... voted with their dollars.


Since you seem to be a bit slow on this topic... If a whole bunch of people don't buy the essentials kit, and it sells worse than the more non-woke products, then in all probability Hasbro will clamp down on the wokeness (contrast to Disney...), which would make voting with money effective. If not, the Spinachcats and Spikes of hte world haven't really lost anything. They (we) don't waste money on product that insults us, and that means we have money to give to products that we like.

Seriously: Do you even Real World?

Quote from: Spike;1112103Seriously: Do you even Real World?

You are asking this of a guy who by day is a mild mannered graduation cap and gown company manager, but by night he becomes Corporate Attorney and fights against the misuse of words on the mean streets of the internet!

Quote from: Snowman0147;1111930I agree with both RPGPundit and Spinachcat.  Why spend money on people that hate you and want to see you die?

Dont you know? You have to spend money on them or they will starve and their workers will starve! You Monster!

(no. I am not joking. in an old thread on this site people were arguing exactly this. That not buying product from a crooked company or designer was bad!)

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111986Welcome to tautology 101 : If it's popular, by definition people like it, and if enough people like it it's popular. Of course there's popularity among group X, like geek/nerd hobbies used to be : Popular among geeks/nerds.

But, here's the rub, that something is popular isn't a reason to get behind it, believe it, etc. That's called ad popolum fallacy.

Actually something can end up being popular because people dont like it. If group A says its bad. Sure enough group B will latch onto it because someone doesnt like it. Or even just to piss off group A. I have never seen something like that hit big time. But theres been far too many that didnt hit the limelight but have persisted sometimes decades. And this is not necessarily a bad thing. At least initially. But from experience these things tend to snowball.

Quote from: Warder;1112049I forsee this happening to the movie John Carter, reallly liked it and it bombed. Go figure.

As for rpgs reboots and new renditions do happen and its debatable if they bring anything new to the table(your mileage may vary). Its always good to have new reinterpretations of existing ideas but sequelitis can sour even the best nostalgia feel.

1: Off topic a moment. The movie bombed because of A: really horrible marketing. and B: deviating too far from the source

2: Actually edition treadmilling does alot of damage with each iteration unless the changes are relatively small. The more that is changed the more damage is done as you lose customers and arent making back that loss fast enough that the next iteration looses you even more. This on top of fractioning your fanbase and/or turning the fanbase against you.

Quote from: Omega;1112110Dont you know? You have to spend money on them or they will starve and their workers will starve! You Monster!

(no. I am not joking. in an old thread on this site people were arguing exactly this. That not buying product from a crooked company or designer was bad!)

Yelp rather be the monster then.  No seriously it is fucking stupid.  If Onyx Path had its way we all be buying Beast and support a SUPPOSED* pedo.  I mean do you really want to support that?  I sure has the holy light of God himself don't want to support that.

*: Saying supposed because I don't have evidence to support that writer is a pedo, or isn't a pedo.  Though I will admit he didn't help himself by suddenly disappearing and everyone cut contact with him.  If he is actually innocent I would feel bad if he didn't hate me so damn much.  I know that isn't a nice thing to say, but he is a sjw that hates Trump supporters which I am one.

Quote from: Spike;1112103Since you seem to be a bit slow on this topic... If a whole bunch of people don't buy the essentials kit

WoTC-Crawford seems to keep the Virtue Signalling/Magical Realm Gnay Gnomes stuff to a level where it is annoying but generally tolerable so far (though I hear Waterdeep Dragon Heist was bad). I think Paizo's Next-Level Wokeness really is hurting PF2, though.