Yeah.. I really know very little about video games (I never play them!) but my overall impression was that if anything, video game rpgs are becoming consistently MORE sandboxy and LESS railroady.  Is that mistaken?

Quote from: RPGPundit;754395Yeah.. I really know very little about video games (I never play them!) but my overall impression was that if anything, video game rpgs are becoming consistently MORE sandboxy and LESS railroady.  Is that mistaken?

Some games, like Fallout and Skyrim, have a center storyline but you can wander all over the place and go nuts with sidequests. See those mountains in the distance? You can walk over there and do stuff if you've got a mind to. It's not across the board though. Most newer games I've played lately... Bioshock and Tomb Raider, were still VERY linear, though trying to look a lot bigger. Tossing in little 'achievement' challenges doesn't count.
I don't really expect videogames to pull off the sandbox thing... except maybe MMOs... but I like it when you're given a number of choices about how to go about completing missions... like the original Deus Ex allowed. Even that still doesn't feel common.

Quote from: RPGPundit;754395Yeah.. I really know very little about video games (I never play them!) but my overall impression was that if anything, video game rpgs are becoming consistently MORE sandboxy and LESS railroady.  Is that mistaken?

You are not.

Some of the most successful video games in recent history have been open sandbox affairs with either semi-optional main storylines, or no storylines at all.

Critical opinion as well is starting to turn sharply against the big-budget railroad fests.

Seriously people, could you be any more old?

Quote from: J Arcane;754407or no storylines at all.

What are some of those?

QuoteSeriously people, could you be any more old?

There are a LOT of games out there... I'm about to buy the new Wolfenstein game... but that doesn't look to be very sandboxy at all.

Quote from: J Arcane;754407Seriously people, could you be any more old?

We could be dead? But I'm in the same boat as Pundit, I usually ask my sons or nephews about video games, since I don't have much interest in them.

Quote from: Simlasa;754408What are some of those?

Minecraft.
The computer RPG for the young generation (8+) is Minecraft, which you could say has a narrative but no crafted storylines except for the players own making. This game is far closer to a tabletop rpg in spirit than Skyrim/Fallout/Dragon Age, even if the appeal is baffling to most people over 20.

Quote from: Bilharzia;754420Minecraft.

Doh! I should have thought of that. Yep, no real mission except to thrive and survive. Well, and that dragon thing if you care to go after it.

Quoteeven if the appeal is baffling to most people over 20.

My friends and I have been playing lots of Minecraft... not sure what that says about us.

I'm not sure how much influence from Minecraft would make it into an TTRPG I ran... the terror of sudden floods... maybe the torches going out leaving you in total darkness with the sounds of skeletons nearby.

That's more about the traditional divide between American video game publishing, which has had a great resurgence in interest — compared to the waning days of life without Ultima or a good Might and Magic — over recent years, and Japanese (and sometimes Europe) video game publishing. American video games have a long history and strong favor towards open sandboxes. To see the hardware and software finally pick up the Japanese graphic and story flash to support the American (and sometimes Europe) go-anywhere sandbox has been an interesting cresting from its great trough 15-20 years ago.

What still needs improvement is the sloppy American AI difficulty level. Often programmers get lazy and either just say, fuck it go multiplayer, or just put the AI on cheat mode where it just moves faster, starts with more resources, or just outright colludes all factions like one hive mind. They could really learn from Japanese programmers on how to take simple components and have a refreshingly challenging AI.

Europe just needs to get over endlessly elegant integrated mechanics. You see it in their board games, their video game quests, et al. And once you figure its clockwork pattern it's sorta over and boring until you buy the next shiny, interlaced gizmo. Basically a lot of those games becomes who figured out the core driving resource first and can bluff/bully the table into not seeing it as well.

Oh, and I play, and played, a shitload of video games. Been one of my first loves. And I am quite the bitter grognard when it comes to it, as well.

Minecraft is huge, and from what I understand a very definite sandbox game.

(scratches his head)  Errr ... so if your players seem to have some basic expectations you find either weird, offputting or bound to lead them into trouble, instead of talking to us about it, why not talk to them?

Say, some phrases like:

"Not every item you find has great significance.  Some times things are just there because they're there, and they don't necessarily bear any relation or connection to anything else you find."

"Not everything out there is finite and/or vanishingly rare.  Those Phoenix's Blood vials you found?  That's a pretty basic healing elixir, and a lot of alchemists know how to make it.  It's not as if you'll never come across another one.  No need to hoard them like grim death."

"You're not necessarily going to have 'Boss Fights' every session.  Sometimes you might find yourself fighting a tough opponent, sure.  Sometimes you guys might find yourself taking on thirty soldiers at once, and maybe no single one would be much of a match for any of you, but all together, it'd be a tough battle.  But that's up to you.  You want to try to sneak past the fortified post instead of fighting that battle?  Your choice."

And so on.

What is Minecraft?

Quote from: Marleycat;754793What is Minecraft?

https://minecraft.net/

Big construction sandbox game with optional survival element.

Also the biggest game since World of Warcraft.

Quote from: J Arcane;754797Big construction sandbox game with optional survival element.

It's like the ultimate Lego set... and despite it's appearance it can get pretty scary... at least for me... down in a pit, in the dark, when a big spider drops on me and I scream and fall out of my chair.
And those damn Endermen... just the sounds of them creeps me out.
Makes me wonder if there's been such a thing as an audio bestiary for RPGs... I've had a few GMs play music during battles and such... but never anything to represent the weird sounds the monsters make... what you HEAR in the dungeon before you SEE it.

Quote from: Marleycat;754793What is Minecraft?

It is a game that looks like a late 80s early 90s pixel game except that it is true 3D. The basic idea is that the entire playing area is comprised of different types of blocks, about a 1 by 1 by 1 meter cube. The blocks are initially arranged by a random generator to looks like a landscape.

You can dig anywhere on the map including deep underground. Some blocks give resources which you can then used to craft other types of blocks. The crafting system has tiers where higher level and more useful blocks are created from lower level blocks.

With these blocks you can stack them into any shapes that can be made by large blocks. With the additional blocks that been introduced you can make sophisticated buildings, transport systems, and in-game automation. In fact some people were able to replicate a low power CPU using just the in-game blocks.

Added to the mix are spawns (creatures and random buildings), multiplayer and nearly unlimited works to explore.

The result is the ultimate sandbox that is playable on nearly everybody's computer.

Quote from: Simlasa;754408What are some of those?

Rust and other survival games in general. Basically they feature an expansive landscape, creatures populating said landscape, a crafting system, some allow for building houses, and unrestricted player interaction.

A Rust server can have up a 100 players, some degenerate into a Lord of the Flies hellhole, while on others players band together and carve out small towns.