At least this thread has got people arguing over something related to an RPG...

Quote from: dragoner;793876Equivalency, relativism, wishy washy-ness; that's your stance remember? Not mine.

Ah...well then to put it in sort of simple terms you can possibly understand.

Necromancy is good because it is not evil.

I think the consensus is also that animating the dead is very situational based on exactly how the heck the things being motivated.

magic powered robot = icky, but dependant on if anyone knows the things origins or cares. Also the function. Workers no ones likely to care about. Undead made from criminals some are likely to cheer. Using them to attack the town or raiding the cemetary and obvious relatives is likely to get the negative reaction.

soul animated thingy that was asked to = creepy, but theres good and bad undead so its case by case. Some may be heroic even.

enslaved soul that was forced to = usually seen as bad unless it is a criminal, and even with criminals likely seen as not a good idea but may be a last resort sort of maneuver.

Like the aformentioned create water spell.

Quote from: One Horse Town;793884At least this thread has got people arguing over something related to an RPG...

Dragoner was starting to make us doubt that...

Quote from: Bren;793885Ah...well then to put it in sort of simple terms you can possibly understand.

What, no more attacking my "funny" English? Your kung is no good ...

Quote from: One Horse Town;793884At least this thread has got people arguing over something related to an RPG...

I think that they have spent too much time in those threads, the abyss is staring back into them.

Quote from: dragoner;793644The reality check isn't a Ouija board, it is the idea of desecrating graves to perform "magic", which is an agreed upon "evil" according to society, to raising undead monsters, fantasy-wise; which would still fall under "evil".

So you totally missed the part where thats not what the word necromancy actually means? The ouija board IS necromancy by definition, the desecrating graves thing is not except as a specific setting redefines the word.

Quote from: LordVreeg;792790Well, it is all based on the cosmology of the setting, and then the different cultural 'reads' o that cosmology.  So it certainly can be evil.  Or it can be neutral, or even a tool for weal in the right setting and cultural.

Saying it is evil or good without those references is sort of baseless.

Quote from: LordVreeg;792799Well, the OP does not mention D&D, though it does mention alignment.  Probably why many people posted System answers.  And I understand alignment very, very well, well enough to know that it is, as mentioned, deilogically biased and cosmology biased, in that this concept of Patron Deity (one I dislike, but that is me) can be the one who judges whether a worshipper is cleaving to their alignment.

These are my favorite post here. It is correct in all the various anthropological, humanistic, religious, and RPG setting experience I have. Without a shared base perspective it all becomes petty bickering; in RPG hobby practice this foundation is tied to GM baseline setting, and the only means by which to answer OHT's question.

What happens if we take a bunch of dinosaur bones, lash them together, animate it and ride it around?


AWESOMENESS
(And hey, at that point you aren't desecrating sentient beings, so it comes down more into 'is this form of magic inherently evil? Why?')

Quote from: TristramEvans;793963... desecrating graves thing is not except as a specific setting redefines the word.

No, the desecration of graves, is from the part of raising the dead, so you actually don't know the total meaning if you think it's all about Ouija boards. It's not pertinent to the op anyways.

Except the OP didn't specify that he ONLY meant 'raising dead.'

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, he's free to weigh in.

But as written, it can be interpreted as 'raising dead is an example of what's really problematic about necromancy' or 'I only mean raise dead.'

Given 'necromancy' is very frequently used in a more general sense (in reality, fantasy novels, and games), it's fair to speculate.


So you are either being a troll or very stupid, Dragoner.

Bullshit. Fuck off you moron. Go play you hippy elf game like a wuss. Don't expect the rest of us to join you. I'm not falling all over myself to make excuses.

Quote from: dragoner;794014No, the desecration of graves, is from the part of raising the dead, so you actually don't know the total meaning if you think it's all about Ouija boards. It's not pertinent to the op anyways.

You are peddling an incredibly narrow campaign milieu.

Imagine a milieu where the souls of the dead do not go anywhere.  They flit around the natural world alongside the living.

Of course, nobody wants to be an incorporeal phantasm that cannot interact with anything; years of that will drive any soul mad. Commons practice among everyone with the means is to purchase an insurance product from the necromancer guild such that when you die, a necromancer stitches your soul back into your corpse.  Middle class folk can only afford the zombie policy; wealthier folk may be a mummy or vampire.  The poor, well, they sign on to the policy that brings them back as an indentured undead bound to the necromancer.  Even for the poor indentured undead, getting your soul stitched back in is considered a universal good in the milieu, so you can keep on keeping on.

Ah, so definitely a troll. Ok, no reason why the rest of us can't have a fun thread.

Old One Eye:
I had a setting idea I wanted to try out where the dead go to the 'land of the dead'... which, like in some ancient beliefs, was a literal place. Or perhaps multiple places.

I wasn't sure whether I wanted to make a big kingdom of the dead that undead priests came from to collect the dead and bring them back, or perhaps multiple necropoli guarded over by the undead to keep the bothersome living out of, or maybe a combination.

On another tack, I found the depiction of High Cromlech interesting, the land of the dead from China Mieville's 'The Scar.' Where undead dwell, and where vampires turn out to be the scrub underclass that the other undead consider filth.

Quote from: Will;794024Ah, so definitely a troll. Ok, no reason why the rest of us can't have a fun thread.

Old One Eye:
I had a setting idea I wanted to try out where the dead go to the 'land of the dead'... which, like in some ancient beliefs, was a literal place. Or perhaps multiple places.

I wasn't sure whether I wanted to make a big kingdom of the dead that undead priests came from to collect the dead and bring them back, or perhaps multiple necropoli guarded over by the undead to keep the bothersome living out of, or maybe a combination.

My DnD homebrew world explicitly has this.  The god who judges the dead (like most of my gods) lives on the prime material.  Souls of the dead flitter to him for judgment.  Of course he is just one dude even if a god, so there is a backlog.  Thusly, a kingdom-sized section of the world stocked to the brim with undead waiting their judgment.