This YouTube video is indirectly thanks to someone known as Vipergrrl :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4T1lrgtx2Y

QuoteENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Okay, Ron, what was with including Bob Dylan's ''All Along The Watchtower'' in the finale?

RONALD MOORE: I had always had this idea of using that particular song in the show as a marker that there were other things going on here. There was this idea developed early in the series, that one of the Colonial scriptures says, ''All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again,'' that certain elements and situations and even people repeat in a cycle of destruction and rebirth and exodus and chase, etc. One of the ideas I wanted to play was, okay, if you found a song that we, the audience, recognize, you realize that you have a connection to this world too, and suddenly other pieces start to fit. Well, why do they wear suits and ties? Why do they look so much like us? What is the connection between them and us? It would put in stark relief the idea that there is a connection between the people on Galatica and our experience on Earth.

That would be a good plot for an RPG campaiugn in general. You've got 6 to 7 players.  They are trying to discover "double agent" or spies during the course of the game.  You've got music CDs playing in the background. During the normal course of the game you pass  3 by 5 cards to 4 of the 7 players. On the cardsw it says when "X" song comes up on the music we've playing in the background , your original memories and personality re-awaken. You ARE one of the spies that you have been looking for .

If you and the players are already in the habit of passing notes this way - it could be a really cool way to shakeup the ongoing plot of a campaign.

- Ed C.

Quote from: WilIs they any incontrovertible truth that they actually are, or is it that they just believe that they are? People make assumptions too quickly with no evidence.

There is an interview with Ron Moore that pretty much confirms the 4 people in that room were cylons, but left open the question of the last cylon slot (The Evidence points to Starbuck of course). I will try and find it and post a link.

-Edit-

Found it

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm

Quote from: RockViperhttp://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm

QuoteR: When did you decide to make these four characters Cylons and how much did you have to go back and check to make sure that fit with things we already knew about these four characters?

RM: It was something I came up with this season as I worked toward the finale. The conceptual framework in which these guys are Cylons, it all sort of works once we laid down their individual back stories.

Gee, he made that decision "this season as I worked toward the finale".  Making it up as he goes?  It "all sort of works"?  Why doesn't that surprise me?

Quote from: John MorrowGee, he made that decision "this season as I worked toward the finale".  Making it up as he goes?  It "all sort of works"?  Why doesn't that surprise me?

It's obvious that's what he's doing, because in Season 1 or 2 he stated that characters that were well known to others (like Tigh and Kara) could not be sleeper Cylons.

I'll revise a little bit - I'm fairly certain that by being part of the "final Five" that Tyrol, Tigh, what's her face and Blanders are not "Cylons" in the same way that the other skin jobs are. Moore kind of alludes to that in the link.

Not that I'm watching the show (I don't watch TV, but I might pick up the DVD's one day...)

But it seems to me a very bad thing when the creator/writer of a show admits that he's making shit up as he goes along. Now... this might not be so bad in a purely episodic 'no continuity' type of show where you don't have long plot/subplot arcs but it's a killer for shows that DO have them.

See... I'm not adverse to the guy making the stuff up so much. Still think it's bad form, but if he pulls it off, great. But going out there and admitting you have no real creative vision that you are following? Blech...

I think I just lost any interest in trying to track this one.  


Especially if it's conspiracy driven.  ESPECIALLY then.

Quote from: SpikeNot that I'm watching the show (I don't watch TV, but I might pick up the DVD's one day...)

But it seems to me a very bad thing when the creator/writer of a show admits that he's making shit up as he goes along. Now... this might not be so bad in a purely episodic 'no continuity' type of show where you don't have long plot/subplot arcs but it's a killer for shows that DO have them.

See... I'm not adverse to the guy making the stuff up so much. Still think it's bad form, but if he pulls it off, great. But going out there and admitting you have no real creative vision that you are following? Blech...

I think I just lost any interest in trying to track this one.  


Especially if it's conspiracy driven.  ESPECIALLY then.

Stracynzski can tell you in loving detail the perils of trying to come up with a multi-year story, and then attempting to stick to it all the way through.  Things change, and as the story develops and you actually see it on-screen, some things that seemed like good ideas may need revising.  Or what if you get an idea that's better than what you had originally planned?

No,  I have no problems whatsoever with Ron making changes as he goes along.  Actually...I can't think of any show that tries to plot out an entire multi-season arc with no changes.  As far as I know, Babylon 5 is the only show to even attempt it.

It by no means implies a lack of creative vision, just the opposite, IMO.  And even though he may be changing and adding details, I have a feeling that he's known his destination from the very beginning.  He's just adjusting the route as he goes.

J. Micheal may have spoiled me, then...

Seriously, I don't need a story arc planned for the entire show in detail, but if you intend to have 'secret infiltrating super secret cylons who are really already cast members'...


... well, that is the sort of thing I'd expect you to plan in advance, and tightly.

I don't know what happened in Alias with the mcguffin peices they were looking for all through seasons one and two, but I damn well expect the writers to at least have a damn good idea what the hell they actually do... and if they don't, then they better not tell me that every episode that they showed up in doing wierd temporal shit was purely the imagination of the guy doing that episode and what ever drugs he had that morning.


As far as I can tell the popularity of LOST seriously tanked once people began figuring out that the writers had no more idea than anyone else did. Sure, some people stuck it out (it's still going, right?), but the serious interest dropped off quickly once the speculation that made it all so interesting turned out to be completely worthless.

That's the point I'm lamely trying to make here.  I guess it would help better if I actually watched TV, eh?:raise:

Quote from: Spike... well, that is the sort of thing I'd expect you to plan in advance, and tightly.

Just like RPGs...what happens if you plan for a character to be a crucial part of the show to be revealed two seasons down the road, and you tightly wind all of these plot threads and other things around them, and a year later the actor leaves? There's something to be said for playing it a little loose on the plotting.

Quote from: WilJust like RPGs...what happens if you plan for a character to be a crucial part of the show to be revealed two seasons down the road, and you tightly wind all of these plot threads and other things around them, and a year later the actor leaves? There's something to be said for playing it a little loose on the plotting.

 Which is the reason to discuss a show in the first place. A lot of gamers compare adventure scenarios to the plots of  action/adventure movies.  The closest thing to an ongoing  RPG campaign is basically an ongoing adventure drama thatr has story arcs.  (Like "LOST", "Babylon 5", "nBattlestar Galactica")

 The creator/producers of these kinds of shows of these shows have a lot of the came concerns and headaches that a GM has.

 This past seson on  "Lost"  - the actor who plays Mr. Ecko said he wanted to leave. The producers had planned on him being there the whole season in their outline for the year.  So, they had to write him out and give him a "death" episode , and they also had to  adjust the storylines of two other characters. Reminds me a lot of a Player suddenly saying they want to quit a campaign and the GM having to scamble to adjust all of the ongoing plots that might be in the works.

- Ed C.

Koltar you stupid piece of shit, it's no wonder players leave your games all the fucking time. They get sick of looking at a toady piece of shit.

No offense intended, and none of those thoughts are my own. Nox is sick today and asked me to cover his shift.

Quote from: James McMurrayKoltar you stupid piece of shit, it's no wonder players leave your games all the fucking time. They get sick of looking at a toady piece of shit.

No offense intended, and none of those thoughts are my own. Nox is sick today and asked me to cover his shift.

Y'know, I read this in passing and actually thought it WAS Nox until I came back to it. Once I read the whole thing I had to actually check who the poster was.

Spot on, James..


EDIT:::: Needs some random mispellings though...

Yeah. And I forgot to screw with his name. Calling him Kol-toad or something would have fit better.

Quote from: James McMurrayKoltar you stupid piece of shit, it's no wonder players leave your games all the fucking time. They get sick of looking at a toady piece of shit.

No offense intended, and none of those thoughts are my own. Nox is sick today and asked me to cover his shift.

 I thought I had him on ignore.... Oh wait its James M.

 Okay never mind.

- E.W.C.

Happy to be of service.

Quote from: Tom BNo,  I have no problems whatsoever with Ron making changes as he goes along.  Actually...I can't think of any show that tries to plot out an entire multi-season arc with no changes.  As far as I know, Babylon 5 is the only show to even attempt it.

Even in comics there's only three guys who've ever pulled it off: Alan Moore (Promethea), Garth Ennis (Preacher) and Neil Gaiman (Sandman) and even Neil lost his way during "Fables and Reflections".  And in comics you've got almost complete control over your characters