Native American RPG?

Omega · March 02, 2019, 05:39:13 AM

And of course there is that set of articles in Dragon way back.

L.W.Pickett · March 02, 2019, 09:24:44 AM

I'm not trying to appease anyone just showing my understanding of the culture is not from the inside, and that I will make my fair share of mistakes. I've seen to damn many times when instead of correction there is attack. I want correction if I make a mistake, I want to learn from them. Case in point, I want to get feed back on the concept of have skill and attribute advancement tied to how honorably or dishonorably the skill was used to gain the improvement. This tied to a concept that I have seen in a number of tales of people slowly descending into deformed or monstrous creatures as they gained dishonor.

Opaopajr · March 02, 2019, 11:22:39 AM

Just research these peoples as honestly as you can and make sure people are having fun at your table.

The self-righteous will forever be offended, high off their self-righteousness (the most addicting drug known to humankind. Yes, worse than cocaine, heroin, nicotine, adrenaline, and sugar,). You do you with positive intention in your heart and an openness to adjust from suggestions, with an eye to your own setting coherency.

North America has an enormous amount of diversity of indigenous traditions and adaptations to the environment. Biggest suggestion: Let the Land's Terrain Shape Who Is Present and Why. That way avoids making your Native American populations a monoculture pastiche of Great Plains culture.

Kiero · March 02, 2019, 11:56:25 AM

Quote from: Opaopajr;1077383North America has an enormous amount of diversity of indigenous traditions and adaptations to the environment. Biggest suggestion: Let the Land's Terrain Shape Who Is Present and Why. That way avoids making your Native American populations a monoculture pastiche of Great Plains culture.

Especially when Eastern Woodland Culture was far more interesting.

soltakss · March 02, 2019, 12:47:32 PM

Quote from: L.W.Pickett;1077230I realize that I am 13 years late to the party, but I am currently working on rules for a North American Pre-European TTRPG, I am, in respect to Native Americans, not using exact nations but nations inspired by the historical. Not being born into the culture I do not wish to cause insult anyone by any well meaning mistake. I would be happy to get feedback and share opinions on the subject.

That is the danger of writing about a culture that still exists. It is really possible to upset people.

Although I don't know a great deal about Native American cultures, what I do know is that they were incredibly varied and different. People from an East Coast culture would have very different beliefs and practices to people of the Great Plains or West Coast. Their deities are different, how they interact with those deities are different, whether they farm, fish or hunt is different, their languages are different and so on. It might be better to concentrate on one place and perhaps one or two Tribes/Nations/Peoples.

Zirunel · March 02, 2019, 01:18:09 PM

Is Poverty Point closer to your neck of the woods? (NE Louisiana). That would be a cool site to visit.

I must say, I have been fascinated by the woodland-period "interaction spheres" for a long time; Adena, Hopewell, "Mississippian," etc. No interest in them as rpgs per se, but I do understand the appeal.

If you really wanted to get into it, it might start getting a bit Tekumel-like, with clans and kinship and the whole social game. Not that that would be a downside from my point of view. Anyway, interesting idea, good luck with it!

jhkim · March 02, 2019, 03:12:19 PM

Quote from: L.W.Pickett;1077368I want correction if I make a mistake, I want to learn from them. Case in point, I want to get feed back on the concept of have skill and attribute advancement tied to how honorably or dishonorably the skill was used to gain the improvement. This tied to a concept that I have seen in a number of tales of people slowly descending into deformed or monstrous creatures as they gained dishonor.

This isn't about Native Americans per se, but I've never liked any of the honor systems that are I've seen for East Asian settings. Yes, honor is important in the stories of East Asian cultures - but honor and virtue are important in the stories of *all* cultures. I haven't seen this sort of thing for European cultures.

GnomeWorks · March 02, 2019, 04:19:10 PM

Quote from: jhkim;1077394I haven't seen this sort of thing for European cultures.

...this might sound weird, but I think that may be because most TTRPGs are made in the West, and there might be an implicit assumption regarding Western cultural values?

If you grew up in the US or Europe, you've probably been exposed to how medieval societies worked, at least in broad strokes. Given that most D&D games are set in that kind of setting, the European understanding of honor might be a foregone conclusion, so nobody felt the need to spell it out.

East Asian settings then get special treatment, because the expected readership probably has much less exposure to how that works, and it's sufficiently different from the European model that it warrants extra attention?

S'mon · March 02, 2019, 04:19:59 PM

Quote from: jhkim;1077394This isn't about Native Americans per se, but I've never liked any of the honor systems that are I've seen for East Asian settings. Yes, honor is important in the stories of East Asian cultures - but honor and virtue are important in the stories of *all* cultures. I haven't seen this sort of thing for European cultures.

Doesn't Pendragon have Glory points? But I agree, certainly when it comes to D&D type games I have no idea why east-Asian settings merit an Honour score and a Republican Rome or Saxon England setting does not.

S'mon · March 02, 2019, 04:26:05 PM

Quote from: GnomeWorks;1077406If you grew up in the US or Europe, you've probably been exposed to how medieval societies worked, at least in broad strokes. Given that most D&D games are set in that kind of setting, the European understanding of honor might be a foregone conclusion, so nobody felt the need to spell it out.

That doesn't feel exactly right. A US-written pseudo-medieval setting like Forgotten Realms seems culturally far closer to 20th-21st century USA (with a bit of the 19th century Old West) than to any part of medieval Europe. British stuff, while grittier, tends to a Monty Python & the Holy Grail 'JCR-Marxist' view of the Middle Ages, and is only very superficially more realistic. Neither show much internal aspect on the medieval mindset or even an early-modern mindset. And this doesn't bother anyone. I don't know why more settings don't take the typical Anime approach to fantasy Japan and do basically the same thing.

crkrueger · March 02, 2019, 04:35:05 PM

Better have a thick skin, man. Not being a Native American yourself, it doesn't matter if you were raised on the rez, married to the direct descendant of Chief Joseph and possessed by the spirit of Sitting Bull, you're going to have hordes of White Bred rich people screaming for your scalp, literally in this case.

Making it non-historical so as not to give offense, worst move ever.
1. You've already shown you're vulnerable to the charges they're going to level.
2. By not using real Tribes, you're erasing them, whitewashing our attempts at Genociding the Native Tribes and culturally appropriating them all at the same time.

Zirunel · March 02, 2019, 06:01:40 PM

Quote from: CRKrueger;1077411screaming for your scalp, literally in this case

Uh, literally? You do mean figuratively, right?

In any case, sure if you're looking to publish, best not to go there. I'll agree with that. But if you are inspired with some ideas for your home game, then yeah, why not?

crkrueger · March 02, 2019, 06:12:09 PM

Quote from: Zirunel;1077428Uh, literally? You do mean figuratively, right?

In any case, sure if you're looking to publish, best not to go there. I'll agree with that. But if you are inspired with some ideas for your home game, then yeah, why not?

No, considering the level of actual violence the Leftist Religious Fanatics are willing to commit lately in response to perceived "verbal violence", I meant that 100% literally...as in people may attempt to physically hurt him.

jhkim · March 02, 2019, 06:37:00 PM

Quote from: GnomeWorks;1077406East Asian settings then get special treatment, because the expected readership probably has much less exposure to how that works, and it's sufficiently different from the European model that it warrants extra attention?

I think it more serves to over-emphasize honor, as is done in a lot of media stereotypes. The vast majority of the honor mechanic systems in games like Bushido and Oriental Adventures could be applied directly to a European setting. I don't think the mechanical system does anything to make cultural differences more understandable - because even the standard honor things that are normal for Europeans become strange and clunky when put into a point system like this.

Zirunel · March 03, 2019, 01:22:50 PM

Quote from: CRKrueger;1077431No, considering the level of actual violence the Leftist Religious Fanatics are willing to commit lately in response to perceived "verbal violence", I meant that 100% literally...as in people may attempt to physically hurt him.

Violent leftist religious fanatics.....okay.

I have to say, I think your fears may be a little overblown, but maybe things are different where you live. And maybe where the OP lives, I dunno.