Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 28, 2022, 11:15:26 PM

Welcome to this wretched hive of scum and villainy, enjoy your stay.

Thanks. I've heard the best forum posters in the galaxy can be found here. I'll watch my step.

Earthdawn - it was my first NON DND game and to this day all games I run are tainted with its corrupting knowledge
Shadowrun - 1st and 2nd editions only didn't care for the other.   
Savage Worlds - recently gotten into this one not too long ago.
Pathfinder 2e - despite who made it and what other's think, it isn't half bad but the ones I've ran across that is playing it are very Lawful Neutral about the rule system.

For DnD my go to is Old School Essentials of late ( backed the boxed sets Kickstarter they just did even though I already own the tombs ).   Forgot how much fun a simple system could be

Quote from: Eric Diaz on March 28, 2022, 09:42:57 PM
Better for what?

(The cracked post is horrible)

Hipster lifestyle bloggers need to tell us how we are hobbying wrong and how to fix that by checking in with them for our new curated consumer interests or else we'll be sent back to the nerd wilderness or something by muckymucks and such.

Quote from: palaeomerus on March 29, 2022, 01:19:07 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on March 28, 2022, 09:42:57 PM
Better for what?

(The cracked post is horrible)

Hipster lifestyle bloggers need to tell us how we are hobbying wrong and how to fix that by checking in with them for our new curated consumer interests or else we'll be sent back to the nerd wilderness or something by muckymucks and such.

Is that a promise? They can't threaten me with a good time. I long for the days when my hobbies were seen as dirty nerd stuff.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 28, 2022, 11:28:19 AM
First off, you're linking to Cracked and you should feel bad about that. They haven't been funny or insightful for years now.

Secondly, that list is hilariously stupid. Traveller games can be just as deranged as D&D games. I've never even HEARD of Brindlewood Bay (and it sounds more like a craptastic ripoff of Clue, to be honest). Mork Borg has been covered before, and it ranges from excessively woke to excessively nihilistic. And Gloomhaven sounds more like a boardgame than an RPG -- why is it even on the list?

Oh, goody! I get to complain comment about Gloomhaven.

I got Jaws of the Lion (the cheaper kinda starter version) and it was a slog of cards an tokens and clunky rules. I really wanted to like it, I love the themes and some of the legacy game ideas, but the gameplay is ech.

And yes, it's a board game. Cracked are doing what they do best, make terrible lists that don't make sense.
If you go into a game of (say) Traveller, expecting it to be "D&D but BETTER", you're going to be sorely dissapointed.

WEG D6 Star Wars 1e is the only game I know that is obviously better designed & possibly more fun, with Mini Six as a Coda. I mostly play/GM various iterations of D&D and love the game. Call of Cthulu is a very good game for what it does.

Quote from: PencilBoy99 on March 28, 2022, 08:39:27 PM

Quote from: tenbones on March 28, 2022, 05:47:15 PM
Any of them that has a good GM.

That's definitely the strangest thing about RPGs - which is regardless of mechanics (modern or traditional) a great engaged GM (assuming the game has one) and engaged players can make any RPG experience amazing (or vice versa). That's kind of weird.

Some of them you notice that while the experience is great, the system is crap. I've played a few games of HarnMaster (not sure which edition), with a good GM and a great group of players. Each game was fun. But it made it absolutely clear to me that the system isn't good at all - the GM was constantly compensating for the system.

Quote from: migo on March 29, 2022, 07:32:20 AM

Quote from: PencilBoy99 on March 28, 2022, 08:39:27 PM

Quote from: tenbones on March 28, 2022, 05:47:15 PM
Any of them that has a good GM.

That's definitely the strangest thing about RPGs - which is regardless of mechanics (modern or traditional) a great engaged GM (assuming the game has one) and engaged players can make any RPG experience amazing (or vice versa). That's kind of weird.

Some of them you notice that while the experience is great, the system is crap. I've played a few games of HarnMaster (not sure which edition), with a good GM and a great group of players. Each game was fun. But it made it absolutely clear to me that the system isn't good at all - the GM was constantly compensating for the system.

I am not going to minimize the value of good GM. That part of the point being made is solid.

However, for what is being said here to be true, D&D would literally have be to the worst system. A talented GM would elevate any system, with the ceiling being the system itself. I think that is what Migo is implying, which is closer to what I agree with.

But the idea that 5e D&D is literally the worst system is hyperbole. Head out to itch or Reddit to see countless shit examples of TTRPGs being "created" all the time.

Who the fuck cares what a hate site thinks is better?

Games I like as much as or more than D&D?
BX D&D: Gets the job done with fewer moving parts.
2e/r Gamma World: Great setting when you ignore the "ha-ha its funnyyyyyyy!" morons. Good system too. Though artifact figuring out isnt quite as good as other editions.
Beyond the Supernatural: DMed this alot way back. Pretty solid system and better than the 2nd ed by far.
Aberrant: WW does a suprisingly good supers RPG.
Star Frontiers: Personal favourite. Great semi hard-fiction setting and very solid rules.
Albedo: Interesting setting and 1st eds system I think was alot better than 2nd ed. Definltly played smoother and the combat is suitable lethal.
Dragon Storm of course since I designed 2 cards for it. Neat simple system that played very well. Least that was till the guild fucked things up.

There are others but those few come to mind right off.

Quote from: Bloody Malth on March 28, 2022, 09:34:11 PM

• Shadowrun, earlier editions when the rules made more sense and they hadn't leaned fully into the woke. I'm really dating myself in my first post.

I'm intrigued by this perspective because it's the exact opposite of my own -- I thought Shadowrun's rules were much easier to grasp after the 4e overhaul, particularly regarding magic and injury (if I never hear the word "staging" again in a ruleset it'll be too soon).  How did you find later editions less comprehensible than the earlier ones?

Shadowruns rules always sucked, and its setting did as well.  Its potential was always more impressive then reality.

Quote from: Thondor on March 28, 2022, 11:30:25 AM
The important question is better at/for what?

This. D&D is great at being D&D. Which means exploration and survival in closed spaces while facing monsters in tactical combat to varying degrees. The more you get away from that premise, the more other games become more attractive. I could cite a bazilion games that are better than D&D in their own premises.

About the article, I would say it's trying to shock more than provide an insightful content, even if the presented games seem good in their own way. I've only heard good things about them (even Brindlewood Bay) but I doubt they're better than D&D at doing D&D.

1. Dungeon Crawl Classics (currently playing)
2. Traveller Classic (played back in the late 70s/early 80s)
3. Harn (never played)
4. Ars Magica (never played)

Quote from: S'mon on March 29, 2022, 02:30:00 AM
WEG D6 Star Wars 1e is the only game I know that is obviously better designed & possibly more fun, with Mini Six as a Coda. I mostly play/GM various iterations of D&D and love the game. Call of Cthulu is a very good game for what it does.

Early D6 is a great and well thought out system.

In my opinion, it would have had a greater impact and longer legs within the hobby if it was properly converted to a count success die-pool system as opposed to adding dice values.

I think such a d6 system like that introduced pre Shadowrun/Vampire could have become very prevalent. But such is 20/20 hindsight.

1) WFRP 1e/2e
2) VtM (when playing the Sabbat).
3) Beyond the Wall & Through Sunken Lands.
4) Anything by SNP.
5) C&C

Truth be told for me at least D&D would be waaay down the pile.