Exactly what the title says. How do you create mighty, sentient magic swords with their own goals, in Mythras?
I want to tie it strongly to the Passions system, too.
Regarding sentience, I've been thinking of having the swords give you a bonus or penalty to some passions (this part was admittedly inspired by Bloodlust). If your actions were keeping them happy, they would give you a roll on the modified passion - with the roll determining how much Magic Points you gain to spend on the swords' powers. (So yes, you could gain a roll mid-battle, with a blood-thirsty sword).
I've also been thinking of giving them powers the wielder can unlock, as long as the sword is happy with him or her. What to base those powers on, however?
I was thinking about an Adept school, with the sword being the adept, but rolling with his controlling Passions instead of skills.
Ideas?
Quote from: AsenRG;953458Ideas?
Describe what it is you want naturally as if you were explaining it to somebody in the setting. Then we can see what mechanics in Mythras will fit what it is you are trying to do. Trying to think of mechanics first and making the concept from that will lead to something clunky.
Also keep in mind that sentient swords are pretty much NPCs in their own right and work best when described as such.
Do you mean like Stormbringer?
Here's my take on it:
Simple route is have a spirit bound to it. But that spirit needs to be given the means to perceive or interact with the world so that it's actually sentient and integrated with the object rather than just the bound to it and then released if it's to do anything. It may be that certain spirits have the necessary traits (look through the spirit and the creature traits), or a specific means of enchanting the blade will bestow that ability on the binding. Of course if it's a divine artefact, you can handwave the creation mechanics...
Depending on the spirit or the magic enchanted into the binding and the enchantment conditions applied it may have magical or spell-like abilities. A sorcery spell enchantment of perceive (sense) may deal with the perception issue. It may have a telepathy spell enchantment, targeted at whoever grasps the hilt. It may Tap (per sorcery spell) people who get killed by it, and then you can think of interesting things it might want to do with those magic points. It may have folk magic capabilities. Bladesharp, obviously - but also Polish, Shock, Repair, Light, Ignite - and a whole load more if the effect is placed on the wielder rather than the sword itself.
In Thennla (Shores of Korantia, Taskan Empire) it's possible to 'awaken' an inaminate object by sacrificing some piece of your own soul to do so, in effect creating a new spirit which is the creator's familiar. This is how the Iron Simulacrum was made by the God Emperor Zygas Taga. Each point of INT, POW or CHA donated will yield an attribute score in the awakened object based on the Intensity of the enchantment. Once you have awoken something this way you can teach it stuff, including spells. It does not have to have all three stats unless you want it to be fully sentient and conscious, and able to interact with other entities.
On my phone now, so I'll be short, but I just wanted to note that yes, those weapons are meant to be NPCs!
http://storiescharactersandsystemsinrpgs.blogspot.bg/2017/03/farseer-lord-of-glorious-battle-and.html
I agree with AsenRG. Stormbringer and Mournblade aren't really bound demons; they're supernatural forces of destiny forged into the shape of swords by a long-dead people to slay a race of gods from an earlier cycle of time. As such, they're plot devices and beyond the standard magic found in roleplaying systems. The first editions of the Stormbringer RPG tried to describe both runeswords in game terms, and even extend the game rules so that binding demons into things became a bog-standard practice in many, if not most, Stormbringer campaigns.
In the books, magic is rare, corrupting, and used sparingly. Those who can use magic usually have distinct pacts, or barter their very souls in exchange for dubious powers. And none of the sorcerers actually go about binding demons or elementals into weapons or other items.
So to create a weapon such as Stormbringer in Mythras, treat it like an NPC. Give it stats like any other NPC, and appropriate passions, powers and abilities. But don't be constrained by the sorcery or animism rules for such items: they are unique and should be treated as such.
Well, seems like I was on the right track, then:D!
Though I had Mysticism effects in mind...mostly;). But a continuous Blades harp might be a better damage effect!
It's no relation to Mythras/BRP but you might want to take a look at Wield, which is John Wick's homage to Bloodlust (though he swears he knows nothing about Bloodlust).
Like Bloodlust the PCs play as the god-items (Vatcha) themselves, with a different Player running each item's wielder... though not all the items are weapons they're all very powerful in unique ways.
It's a small rules-lite storygame that I'd probably never run, but it's got some nifty ideas.
I've got Wield, but it didn't impress me - what ideas do you find nifty?
Quote from: AsenRG;953619I've got Wield, but it didn't impress me - what ideas do you find nifty?
Oh, I liked the basic setup, like Bloodlust, of having other Players play the Vatcha/wielder. The creation process where you come up with the motivations and relationships and doom of the various Vatcha characters... and that the Vatcha could be all sorts of things, besides just weapons. I've got enough ideas from it for use in my own Magic World game that I thought it was a worthwhile purchase... along with the Companion, which has a various settings and additional material (IIRC it's longer than the main book).
If you've already got Bloodlust, maybe it's just repetition? I haven't read Bloodlust, it being French, so not sure how much it differs.
Quote from: Simlasa;953620Oh, I liked the basic setup, like Bloodlust, of having other Players play the Vatcha/wielder. The creation process where you come up with the motivations and relationships and doom of the various Vatcha characters... and that the Vatcha could be all sorts of things, besides just weapons. I've got enough ideas from it for use in my own Magic World game that I thought it was a worthwhile purchase... along with the Companion, which has a various settings and additional material (IIRC it's longer than the main book).
If you've already got Bloodlust, maybe it's just repetition? I haven't read Bloodlust, it being French, so not sure how much it differs.
Yeah, Wield did seem like Bloodlust, except more narrative. And the narrative elements didn't seem to be there for a reason, which I dislike:).
I admit I haven't got the Companion, since I didn't like the first part;).
Quote from: AsenRG;953941Yeah, Wield did seem like Bloodlust, except more narrative. And the narrative elements didn't seem to be there for a reason, which I dislike:).
Oh, yeah... some of the mechanics, like the hand gesture combat declaration, are not my taste at all... and overall the main rulebook feels incomplete, a bit lazy even... like it's just a sketch of a game that was done on bar napkins, not really meant to be played.
Still, I think I found 5$ worth of inspiration in it.
The Companion has a bunch of stuff, like example settings, that probably could/should have been in the main rulebook.
Quote from: Loz;953531...
So to create a weapon such as Stormbringer in Mythras, treat it like an NPC. Give it stats like any other NPC, and appropriate passions, powers and abilities. But don't be constrained by the sorcery or animism rules for such items: they are unique and should be treated as such.
I'm considering starting a
Mythras campaign using the Young Kingdoms setting this summer (drawing on the MRQII books and
Elric! stuff). Introducing an NPC item like this (though probably not in the same league as Stormbringer or Mournblade) sounds like a great idea -- and plot hook!
Giving them a personality is one way to do it; but it shouldn't be too human of a personality. The other way to make them really epic is for a sword to have a kind of Destiny.
Quote from: RPGPundit;954505Giving them a personality is one way to do it; but it shouldn't be too human of a personality.
Why not?
I find that an inhuman personality in what amounts to an object, weirds the players out even more:p!
QuoteThe other way to make them really epic is for a sword to have a kind of Destiny.
They do, though the players don't know it yet;).
Why not? Because magical objects don't have human personalities. Their personalities are radically different. They're archetypal personalities, which if a human had would seem kind of nuts.
Quote from: RPGPundit;954931Why not? Because magical objects don't have human personalities. Their personalities are radically different. They're archetypal personalities,
Says who?
And what does "archetypal personality" even
mean, given the sheer number of Archetypes out there?
Quotewhich if a human had would seem kind of nuts.
Being "nuts" is a very human-like quality;).
Quote from: RPGPundit;954931Why not? Because magical objects don't have human personalities. Their personalities are radically different. They're archetypal personalities,
Says who, given that we're talking about my setting:)?
And given the sheer number of Archetypes out there, "archetypal personality" might mean a number of things.
Quotewhich if a human had would seem kind of nuts.
Being "nuts" is a very human-like quality;).
Not a massive fan of humanlike sentience/sapient (?) weapons, too Disney for me.
I generally avoid them but on the occasions I have had them I model them on a singular focus and however they communicate it's always with that in mind.
So the sword of Justice is all about that to an obsessive level (it's why it was created) not just a funny looking NPC.
Quote from: HorusArisen;954999Not a massive fan of humanlike sentience/sapient (?) weapons, too Disney for me.
I generally avoid them but on the occasions I have had them I model them on a singular focus and however they communicate it's always with that in mind.
So the sword of Justice is all about that to an obsessive level (it's why it was created) not just a funny looking NPC.
I've certainly got those, too. And given my attitude towards Disney, I obviously don't find them related:).
It's just that I prefer NPCs that aren't single-purpose;).
Quote from: HorusArisen;953468Do you mean like Stormbringer?
Or better: the broken sword in The Broken Sword
Quote from: Trond;955037Or better: the broken sword in The Broken Sword
Absolutely killer book!
Quote from: AsenRG;954996Says who?
Personal experience.
Quote from: RPGPundit;956844Personal experience.
Well, my personal experience, focused on "what would be most fun", differs.
Magical objects with motivations you have to work at to understand are more interesting, and therefore more fun, than magic items that just act like they were people.
Quote from: RPGPundit;957645Magical objects with motivations you have to work at to understand are more interesting, and therefore more fun, than magic items that just act like they were people.
Sounds kinda like magic items in Earthdawn, except its magic items generally aren't overtly sentient... but the involved process of learning about an item and unlocking its powers... forming a relationship with it... would be cool to apply to sentient items as well.
Quote from: RPGPundit;957645Magical objects with motivations you have to work at to understand are more interesting, and therefore more fun, than magic items that just act like they were people.
I see a presumption here that people's motivations are obvious:).
My games don't always confirm that presumption, magic items or not.
Quote from: Simlasa;957651Sounds kinda like magic items in Earthdawn, except its magic items generally aren't overtly sentient... but the involved process of learning about an item and unlocking its powers... forming a relationship with it... would be cool to apply to sentient items as well.
These were, quite explicitly, a source of inspiration;).
Quote from: AsenRG;953458Exactly what the title says. How do you create mighty, sentient magic swords with their own goals, in Mythras?
I want to tie it strongly to the Passions system, too.
Regarding sentience, I've been thinking of having the swords give you a bonus or penalty to some passions (this part was admittedly inspired by Bloodlust). If your actions were keeping them happy, they would give you a roll on the modified passion - with the roll determining how much Magic Points you gain to spend on the swords' powers. (So yes, you could gain a roll mid-battle, with a blood-thirsty sword).
I've also been thinking of giving them powers the wielder can unlock, as long as the sword is happy with him or her. What to base those powers on, however?
I was thinking about an Adept school, with the sword being the adept, but rolling with his controlling Passions instead of skills.
Are we talking rules mechanics to create the swords or abilities the swords might have?
Rules mechanics-wise, it is easy. Take some kind of raw spirit and bound it into the sword, but give the sword abilities by having the smith forge abilities into the sword. If it cannot be done using the rules as they are, then invent some divine magic, sorcery or enchantment that allows this. In Legend, I have a spell for some smiths that allows the smith to add a special effect to the sword per point of spell, these are normally the effects of good craftmanship but could easily be magical effects. The bound spirit could be enchanted in such a way that it is not just a bound spirit but becomes integral to the sword, giving it intelligence and powers.
Powers-wise, You could give the Sword itself a Passiona nd then use some kind of opposed skill mechanism to force the wielder to behave in a certain way, but this might set people off who don't like to lose control of their PC. Alternatively when the PC touches the sword at first, the sword could give a speech saying that it will only serve someone who behaves in such a way or helps to achieve such an end, PCs who help the sword can unlock more and more powers as the sword trusts them more and more, or could lose abilities as the sword decides they are not helping.
Mythras is a narrative game, in some ways, so you coukld just make up the abilities. It could allow you to cast a divine spell once per week.day.hour/whatever, it could give you a special ability or power, in Legend it could give a Legendary Ability but Mythras doesn't have those. Just make up what seems reasonable.
Quote from: soltakss;957663Are we talking rules mechanics to create the swords or abilities the swords might have?
Rules mechanics-wise, it is easy. Take some kind of raw spirit and bound it into the sword, but give the sword abilities by having the smith forge abilities into the sword. If it cannot be done using the rules as they are, then invent some divine magic, sorcery or enchantment that allows this. In Legend, I have a spell for some smiths that allows the smith to add a special effect to the sword per point of spell, these are normally the effects of good craftmanship but could easily be magical effects. The bound spirit could be enchanted in such a way that it is not just a bound spirit but becomes integral to the sword, giving it intelligence and powers.
Powers-wise, You could give the Sword itself a Passiona nd then use some kind of opposed skill mechanism to force the wielder to behave in a certain way, but this might set people off who don't like to lose control of their PC. Alternatively when the PC touches the sword at first, the sword could give a speech saying that it will only serve someone who behaves in such a way or helps to achieve such an end, PCs who help the sword can unlock more and more powers as the sword trusts them more and more, or could lose abilities as the sword decides they are not helping.
Mythras is a narrative game, in some ways, so you coukld just make up the abilities. It could allow you to cast a divine spell once per week.day.hour/whatever, it could give you a special ability or power, in Legend it could give a Legendary Ability but Mythras doesn't have those. Just make up what seems reasonable.
Thanks, we're playing with the mechanics mostly like you wrote:). Except the swords' spirits are actually Adepts of the Paths of Themselves, but the results might include effects from the other magical systems, too.
The swords started with a speech, and they have Passions for opposed rolls, if the need arises.
And I've got Legend, too;). So I can take the Legendary abilities from there. In fact, that might be a good idea for some, now that I think of it. Thanks for the reminder!
IME, you don't need a game to be narrative to invent new things. It's especially easy in d100 games, I've found.
Admittedly, I don't know what makes you think that Mythras is "narrative" somehow. Anything but Luck points is IC, and even those are IC in some settings.
Quote from: soltakss;957663Powers-wise, You could give the Sword itself a Passiona nd then use some kind of opposed skill mechanism to force the wielder to behave in a certain way, but this might set people off who don't like to lose control of their PC.
Just treat it as an anti-augment. If the Passion wins the opposed check, give the player a penalty on all rolls opposing the Passion equal to 1/5 of the Passion's value. They're still free to act as they choose, but there's an incentive to go along with what the sword wants if they're not able to control it properly. (This is how I handle regular Passions, so also applying it in this instance seems natural to me.)
Quote from: soltakss;957663in Legend it could give a Legendary Ability but Mythras doesn't have those.
Aren't Mythras "Gifts" (p.201-202) basically the same as Legendary Abilities?