ZeFRS (http://www.midcoast.com/~ricekrwc/zefrs/) really is a cool system.
I think it captures the flavor of Sword and Sorcery better than most systems out there.
In its original inception as the engine for the TSR Conan RPG, it was one of the first games that asked questions like; where did you come from? What did your father do? What is your story? Right after your characters name and your name, is the word STORY in big bold caps. The character sheet doesn't even deal with stats until after you have written a bit about your character. The stats had their place, but right off the top the game wanted you to start thinking of a background and a concept for your character. In a way, it was a story telling game before "story telling" games were cool.
Mark K and a bunch of the guys over at the ZeFRS board put a lot of hard work in taking the game, dusting it off and making it available for everyone (all this with the blessing of the author Dave "Zeb" Cook, no less).
Alas, the forum (http://zefrs.proboards101.com/index.cgi) has gone a bit cold (my fault as much as anyone's). But despite the lack of posts, I've noticed that whenever someone on any of the various RPG boards I haunt mentions a need for a good S&S game, ZeFRS is right up there at the top of the list of recommendations.
I keep telling myself that I have to do something with this game- Create a world, write an adventure, try to add something to the efforts of the ZeFRS crew. But there is always something pressing at my free time- Legends of Steel, Broadsword expansions, a hard drive crash, the list goes on. But I'm resolved to do something this year with it.
Is there a book or series that would benefit from a ZeFRS treatment? Conan's been done, Thongor's been done, Lankhmar? Done. What else? Sinbad (Harryhausen's style Sinbad)? "Jack of all Trades"? Gor? I'm not sure, but ZeFRS definitely deserves some more love.
Any ideas out there?
I love the rules for wizards obsession and magical weakness - a lass I know used ZeFRS to do a grimey Pirates of Darkwater scenario
Quote from: The Evil DMAny ideas out there?
I am a big fan of ZeFRS, too and try to spread the good S&S love when I can. I just read a message from Mark K (which I didn't notice until now, doh!) mentioning the possibility of a ZeFRS Companion. I know that there was a newsletter planned, but perhaps it would be good to start with helping him put together a Companion with optional rules, maybe a setting, an adventure, etc.
TGA
Quote from: The Good AssyrianI am a big fan of ZeFRS, too and try to spread the good S&S love when I can. I just read a message from Mark K (which I didn't notice until now, doh!) mentioning the possibility of a ZeFRS Companion. I know that there was a newsletter planned, but perhaps it would be good to start with helping him put together a Companion with optional rules, maybe a setting, an adventure, etc.
TGA
more stuff is always cool. but I think a setting would be fun as well
Quote from: The Evil DMmore stuff is always cool. but I think a setting would be fun as well
Oh, I agree! My only point is that the chances of the Scrolls of the Red Brotherhood becoming reality are kinda distant from what I can tell, and a ZeFRS Companion might spark some more interest while being an easier, one-shot project. And I think that ZeFRS could use some clarifications, optional rules, and a full beastiary, all of which would be on my short list for inclusion in a Companion.
As for settings, do you have a home brew in mind? I remember some talk of an Ancient Mesopotamian-esque setting that someone (or more than one person) was working on. Was that you, EvilDM? As for established S&S settings that could use a ZeFRS treatment, it would be hard to find one that hasn't already been done, but would appeal to more than a tiny audience. My only suggestion off the top of my head might be Howard's "Bran Mak Morn" stories, which were well served by the new Del Ray collection. Primeval Picts vs. Romans might have some potential.
Let me think about that one some more...
TGA
QuotePrimeval Picts vs. Romans might have some potential.
How about mad druids and a gog magog-stylee giant. Sacrifices, standing stones, animism.
Quote from: The Good AssyrianOh, I agree! My only point is that the chances of the Scrolls of the Red Brotherhood becoming reality are kinda distant from what I can tell, and a ZeFRS Companion might spark some more interest while being an easier, one-shot project. And I think that ZeFRS could use some clarifications, optional rules, and a full beastiary, all of which would be on my short list for inclusion in a Companion.
As for settings, do you have a home brew in mind? I remember some talk of an Ancient Mesopotamian-esque setting that someone (or more than one person) was working on. Was that you, EvilDM? As for established S&S settings that could use a ZeFRS treatment, it would be hard to find one that hasn't already been done, but would appeal to more than a tiny audience. My only suggestion off the top of my head might be Howard's "Bran Mak Morn" stories, which were well served by the new Del Ray collection. Primeval Picts vs. Romans might have some potential.
Let me think about that one some more...
TGA
I wasnt in on the meso/ ancient world setting. Doc Rotwang wrote on his blog about writing something forthe sinbad movies, though that was for another system, still the idea is great, and worth stealing (hah!)
Another thing your post made me think of was when you mentioned ancient world. Remember Man, Myth, and Magic from Yaquinto games? and more recently Testament (I have two copies since the great green Ronin blowout), maybe an ancient world setting would be the ticket? a little Talbot Mundy and Harold Lamb?
Havent seen a treatment of the Tros of Samothrace characters...
Quote from: SeanHow about mad druids and a gog magog-stylee giant. Sacrifices, standing stones, animism.
I like! :D
TGA
Quote from: The Evil DMAnother thing your post made me think of was when you mentioned ancient world. Remember Man, Myth, and Magic from Yaquinto games? and more recently Testament (I have two copies since the great green Ronin blowout), maybe an ancient world setting would be the ticket? a little Talbot Mundy and Harold Lamb?
Havent seen a treatment of the Tros of Samothrace characters...
I vaguely remember Man, Myth, and Magic and I think that there is great potential for a S&S setting based on the darker corners of the ancient world. I've never read any Talbot Mundy, unfortunately, and I've enjoyed Lamb's nonfiction (particularly his biography of Genghis Khan), but haven't read his cossack novels although I've heard they are fantastic.
I think you may have hit on something with your mention of the Tros of Samothrace character as an inspiration. What about a S&S treatment of Roman Britain in general? You could easily embrace Tros, Bran Mak Morn, and straight Celtic myth in such a setting.
Dark, forbidding places inhabited by denizens of the world's earlier ages? Check!
Crazy druids whose pursuit of power threatens their very humanity? Check!
Struggle between civilization and howling barbarism? Check!
Weird ruins, places of mystery, creatures of myth and legend? Check!
That would be a cool place to wield a sword, man!
TGA
So, of the various settings I've considered, I like a Fantasy Earth "Dark Ages" setting the best (with a Thundarr setting running a very close second).
I say fantasy Earth, not in the way of elves and faeries (god no) but in the way that -Low magic is present, diabolical forces can and do manifest, and history is altered somewhat to give more opportunity for adventure and expression.
Primarily, Berber traders would have "discovered" the southeastern side of the Americas, Norsemen would colonize the northern half, and over on the west coast, Chinese traders would have mapped out Polynesia and begun colonies on the western side of the Americas.
That would open the whole world up with still plenty of mysterious places to explore. You could stay in the old world or take your chances in the new one. And this will be without the advantage of gunpowder. And of course magic will work, with a lot of effort and sacrifice, but it will work.
I'm looking at several sources such as TSR's AD&D sourcebook "Charlemagne's Paladins" and possibly some other Dark ages RPG sources.
And lest we forget it's a S&S game world we are trying to invoke, I'm also looking at gathering some issues of DC Comics; "Arak-Son of Thunder" which was a great series that dealt with the Carolingian empire as a backdrop to the heroes adventures.
I kept overlooking this thread because I forgot what "ZeFRS" was.
CLEARLY, I AM A MORON.
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Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I kept overlooking this thread because I forgot what "ZeFRS" was.
CLEARLY, I AM A MORON.
[/SIZE][/B]
And the fact that I authored the thread wasnt enough to make you wanna read it??
I is crushed. :confused:
Nothin' personal, dude. I didn't even notice who wrote it.
Quote from: The Evil DMSo, of the various settings I've considered, I like a Fantasy Earth "Dark Ages" setting the best (with a Thundarr setting running a very close second).
I say fantasy Earth, not in the way of elves and faeries (god no) but in the way that -Low magic is present, diabolical forces can and do manifest, and history is altered somewhat to give more opportunity for adventure and expression.
Primarily, Berber traders would have "discovered" the southeastern side of the Americas, Norsemen would colonize the northern half, and over on the west coast, Chinese traders would have mapped out Polynesia and begun colonies on the western side of the Americas.
That would open the whole world up with still plenty of mysterious places to explore. You could stay in the old world or take your chances in the new one. And this will be without the advantage of gunpowder. And of course magic will work, with a lot of effort and sacrifice, but it will work.
That sounds like a really neat setting idea! One thing to consider is maybe the Berbers are using subtle magic to make the transoceanic journeys way before the historical development of the proper navigation and shipbuilding techniques. That may be too overt, but it could be a simple as making a certain prayer at a certain place and a miraculously favorable wind blows the ship across the ocean.
The Norse in North America are a no-brainer as they don't need any divine assistance to travel their northern route, but a potential twist is that they may not have been the first Europeans to do so. Canadian author Farley Mowat argued in his book The Farfarers: Before the Norse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Farfarers:_Before_the_Norse) that there was an earlier wave of pre-Celtic peoples who may have colonized Northeastern Canada before the arrival of the Norse. The claim is *highly* speculative, but it could be a neat touch to such a setting. The Norse have to deal with not only the Native Americans, but also the "little people" driven out of Europe by centuries of Celtic, German, and finally Norse pressure. They should have a reputation as fearsome wizards and maybe have joined with the Native Americans to oppose the encroaching Norse colonizers.
Oh, and I think that Thundarr would rock too! :D
Quote from: The Evil DMAnd lest we forget it's a S&S game world we are trying to invoke, I'm also looking at gathering some issues of DC Comics; "Arak-Son of Thunder" which was a great series that dealt with the Carolingian empire as a backdrop to the heroes adventures.
Thanks for the tip-off. Never heard of Arak before, but I'm going to see if I can find some of the issues and check it out.
TGA
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I kept overlooking this thread because I forgot what "ZeFRS" was.
HAVE YOU SEEN THE LIGHT?
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:haw:
I am still kinda jazzed by the idea of S&S action in a dark version of Roman Britain. I read some Bran Mak Morn stories last night to get in the mood. Maybe I'll pitch it to my players as we are getting ready to organize a new Sunday game...
What do you think would be the best setup for such a game? PCs as barbaric outsiders (Picts) fighting civilization and the encroaching doom of their race, which has the advantage of being very Howardian? Or would you go with PCs are mainly Roman/Romano-Gauls fighting to keep the darkness represented by howling Pictish headhunters led by crazed, animalistic shamans from swallowing civilization whole?
TGA
Quote from: The Good AssyrianHAVE YOU SEEN THE LIGHT?
[/SIZE][/B]
:haw:
Well, I've seen
Xanadu. And there are plenty of lights in that.
I mean, seriously -- crap lights up
for no good reason in that movie. I like that, actually, but it still doesn't seem to serve a purpose other than, you know, to be the movie where stuff lights up for --
-- wait, what...?
Quote from: The Good AssyrianI am still kinda jazzed by the idea of S&S action in a dark version of Roman Britain. I read some Bran Mak Morn stories last night to get in the mood. Maybe I'll pitch it to my players as we are getting ready to organize a new Sunday game...
What do you think would be the best setup for such a game? PCs as barbaric outsiders (Picts) fighting civilization and the encroaching doom of their race, which has the advantage of being very Howardian? Or would you go with PCs are mainly Roman/Romano-Gauls fighting to keep the darkness represented by howling Pictish headhunters led by crazed, animalistic shamans from swallowing civilization whole?
TGA
I started reading the Bran Mak Morn stories as well...I would go with Romans or Romano Ex Legionairies. stranded or trying to stake a claim in a Briton that Rome has just abandoned. By that time Rome was using every thing from Nubians to Scythians in their army.
Barsoom? Post-apoc fantasy/gonzo?
ENCOUNTER CRITICAL?!
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Barsoom? Post-apoc fantasy/gonzo?
ENCOUNTER CRITICAL?!
[Kosh Voice]Yes[/Kosh Voice]
TGA
Quote from: The Evil DMI started reading the Bran Mak Morn stories as well...I would go with Romans or Romano Ex Legionairies. stranded or trying to stake a claim in a Briton that Rome has just abandoned. By that time Rome was using every thing from Nubians to Scythians in their army.
Thanks for the advice. I think you are right about that. Setting it at the end of Roman rule would add Saxons, etc into the mix. I was originally thinking about setting it earlier (say 1st Century AD) to have a stronger Gallic flavor, but the Romano-British stand against the howling darkness of invading Germans on one hand and degenerate Picts just waiting for their revenge on the other has some real merit...
TGA
Quote from: The Good AssyrianThanks for the advice. I think you are right about that. Setting it at the end of Roman rule would add Saxons, etc into the mix. I was originally thinking about setting it earlier (say 1st Century AD) to have a stronger Gallic flavor, but the Romano-British stand against the howling darkness of invading Germans on one hand and degenerate Picts just waiting for their revenge on the other has some real merit...
TGA
for some flavor and scenery you might look at the movie
King Arthur with Clive Owen
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0349683/
old issues of the crossgen comic Brath.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brath_%28comics%29\
or even episodes of Roar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roar_%28television_series%29
Ach!
I'm sad to say that too let other things step in front of sweet, simple ZEFRS!
Oh Zeb, forgive meeeeeee!!!
Having said that, the Gor stuff always sounded like fun (but I'm going on hazy memories of my early teens when all manner of manly-fictional-fodder graced my greasy hands such as The Executioner et al, and all manner of fantasy drek).
I still have my copy of that old original Conan RPG - and the three modules made for it - and this thread is making me wanna drag it out and read it again.
I did so with mine, Col.
I just discovered the ZeFRS system. I actually still own the original TSR Conan Boxed Set. That was a great system and definitely a whole lot better than AD&D back in the days. My buddies had a great time playing Conan. When we left off 20 years ago they had planned a trip that would take them across the continent. Alas, life happened and we couldn't continue - new jobs, marriages, school, etc.
I've just gotten into D&D 4.0. It's not bad. I just joined this group because I miss the rpg days of my youth and am trying to re-live them.
Anyhow, I found my way to the ZeFRS website. I am excited that there are people out there who are interested in this system. I think it could be fleshed out more, but I like that fact that it is a rules-lite system, but provides enough detail in combat to make it exciting (calling shots, specific wounds, etc). Also, I love that the game is skill-based and not cookie-cutter class-based characters (cleric, paladin, etc.)
What I would like to see in ZeFRS is how the combat system can be used with miniatures. I don't remember if this is covered in the rules. I like Gurps for the combat-realism, but all the possible maneuvers/actions and modifiers did slow things down. ZeFRS is a good balance between Gurps combat and D&D. D&D 4.0 still doesn't satisfy me like Gurps combat, but at least they added different maneuvers and what-not. D&D 4.0 plays like a MMORPG.
Could the ZeFRS system work well with a sci-fi based campaign world ie. Blade Runner? I've played Gurps Cyperpunk, but I've been waiting for a Blade Runner rpg.
Anyhow, I'm looking forward to further updates to the ZeFRS system. Keep up the good work.
Gerald
Welcome to the site, bladerunner0427!