Quote from: Sacrosanct;560345.  But I didn't dwell on it either.  I noticed we paid more attention to the flavor of our characters rather than keeping track of who was better in what situation.

Impossible.

RPGs are all about competing with the other players and making sure nobody ever, in any way forced to not be the center of the universe for so much as a second.

If anyone ever has a bigger game-penis than you, you must whine until WOTC wrecks the game so that your feelings aren't hurt.

Quote from: Piestrio;560561Impossible.

RPGs are all about competing with the other players and making sure nobody ever, in any way forced to not be the center of the universe for so much as a second.

If anyone ever has a bigger game-penis than you must while until WOTC wrecks the game so that your feelings aren't hurt.

Piestro,  nice seeing you again.  Please drop by whenever you can. You and I will have tea and discuss Wotc ....

Quote from: Marleycat;560545Sacrosanct is going to be so pissed at me. Talking about Northwest beers and he lives in my hometown.

Your hometown is Beaverton?  You can talk about beers all you want and I won't get pissed.  Best beer I ever had was when I lived in Germany.  Now I know Portland has more microbreweries per capital than any other US City, and I'm sure there are some great beers, but my beer drinking days are long gone.  After Germany, I haven't really had the desire or taste for beer.

Quote from: Marleycat;560392To be fair 3.0 is far faster than 3.5. I never knew anybody to run 3.5 gridless tell me how it works out.

Everloss, takes me around 30 minutes but that's because I mostly play wizards, sorcerers, clerics, and gish concepts like Pathfinder's Magus.

I was under the impression that 3.5 was just mini's rules tacked on to 3.0. I don't know though, as I haven't played either. I would, but I don't know anyone who plays them. That goes for Pathfinder, as well.

I tried to make some sort of fire elf wizard guy, that I totally didn't want to play, but the DM stated that the party needed a new magic user, who had to be a fire elf, and had to have these particular spells and abilities and whatnot.

fuck that.

That was a couple years ago at one of the local game stores; I haven't been back since.

Quote from: everloss;560588I was under the impression that 3.5 was just mini's rules tacked on to 3.0. I don't know though, as I haven't played either. I would, but I don't know anyone who plays them. That goes for Pathfinder, as well.

I tried to make some sort of fire elf wizard guy, that I totally didn't want to play, but the DM stated that the party needed a new magic user, who had to be a fire elf, and had to have these particular spells and abilities and whatnot.

fuck that.

That was a couple years ago at one of the local game stores; I haven't been back since.

Sounds like a dick DM. They are out there in every game system.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;560586Your hometown is Beaverton?  You can talk about beers all you want and I won't get pissed.  Best beer I ever had was when I lived in Germany.  Now I know Portland has more microbreweries per capital than any other US City, and I'm sure there are some great beers, but my beer drinking days are long gone.  After Germany, I haven't really had the desire or taste for beer.

Olympia WA. How's that for a beer name? I also did the Germany and Spain thing.  I love German beers.  The Spanish can't brew a decent one if it meant their life.  Very sad.

Quote from: jeff37923;560590Sounds like a dick DM. They are out there in every game system.

Yep. If we were FtF I could help you do a non-magic girl in 10 minutes max whatever you wanted. Or a sorcerer in 20 minutes.  The important thing is her/his theme.

Quote from: Piestrio;560561Impossible.

RPGs are all about competing with the other players and making sure nobody ever, in any way forced to not be the center of the universe for so much as a second.

If anyone ever has a bigger game-penis than you, you must whine until WOTC wrecks the game so that your feelings aren't hurt.

Well if the idea is to let the game support a broad range of play-styles (a supposed goal of 3e) and make it so that work to suit a particular playstyle is minimal then it's not like having a balanced baseline is going to hurt the people who don't care about balance in the first place.

Peregrine, I like you and you have a set yes you do.  But I disagree with you.

Quote from: Marleycat;560392To be fair 3.0 is far faster than 3.5. I never knew anybody to run 3.5 gridless tell me how it works out.

That sounds incredibly unlikely. The two combat systems are completely identical except for cover (which is simpler in 3.5).

Quote from: Peregrin;560502The thing you have to be careful about is AoOs and other positioning-triggered abilities.

In order to resolve an AoO you need to know two things:

(1) Can character X be hit by character Y?
(2) What is character X doing?

If you can't answer those questions without using miniatures, then you can't run combat in any system without using miniatures.

Quote from: jeff37923;560401Yup, that is a drawback. 3.x/Pathfinder is slower than earlier versions. I cannot deny that.

Based on extensive, recorded experience with both OD&D and 3.X I would say that this is objectively and categorically not true in terms of actual resolution time.

OD&D combats are occasionally shorter overall due to the existence of more "instantly end the encounter abilities" (most of which were already in the process of being phased out in AD&D), but any encounter that plays out to its a non-preemptive conclusion has a virtually identical run-time.

Quote from: Reckall;560515C - As much as it was fun (and it *was* fun) "winging it" simply allows for much more vivid battles and set-pieces (and, I could add, descriptions in a general sense) than the miniatures/grid approach. I remember how in one of our last 3.5E battles an Abyssal Drake crash landed on the players' flying ship, I said "The ship waves badly... everybody, make a Reflex check with DC 20 or lose balance... and everybody just SAW the scene in his mind. Having me saying: "K, now everybody rolls initiative, to see who regains balance first - Abyssal Drake included" only added to the already high cinematic tension of the scene.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;560626Based on extensive, recorded experience with both OD&D and 3.X I would say that this is objectively and categorically not true in terms of actual resolution time ... any encounter that plays out to its a non-preemptive conclusion has a virtually identical run-time.

This is fascinating (assuming your numbers are reliable, of course), because the perception is clearly that this is not the case. Which must mean that the mechanics in 3.5 make combats seem longer (and therefore more tactical), while the mechanics in OD&D and AD&D make combats seem faster (and therefore more dramatic), even though this isn't actually the case.  It's interesting how the mechanics used can have such a profound effect on how a game feels to play.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;560626That sounds incredibly unlikely. The two combat systems are completely identical except for cover (which is simpler in 3.5).
In order to resolve an AoO you need to know two things:

(1) Can character X be hit by character Y?
(2) What is character X doing?

If you can't answer those questions without using miniatures, then you can't run combat in any system without using miniatures.

Based on extensive, recorded experience with both OD&D and 3.X I would say that this is objectively and categorically not true in terms of actual resolution time.

OD&D combats are occasionally shorter overall due to the existence of more "instantly end the encounter abilities" (most of which were already in the process of being phased out in AD&D), but any encounter that plays out to its a non-preemptive conclusion has a virtually identical run-time.

WTF! Come play at my table.

Justin,  you're not wrong or right but you're completely over thinking it. Come plày the rules are fluid. What matters is are you having fun? It's a game right?

Quote from: Piestrio;560561Impossible.

RPGs are all about competing with the other players and making sure nobody ever, in any way forced to not be the center of the universe for so much as a second.

If anyone ever has a bigger game-penis than you, you must whine until WOTC wrecks the game so that your feelings aren't hurt.

This is actually a MMOG-culture thing.  It's when WotC brought MMOGs to the tabletop that we got this kind of influence.

Quote from: Piestrio;560561RPGs are all about competing with the other players and making sure nobody ever, in any way forced to not be the center of the universe for so much as a second.

If anyone ever has a bigger game-penis than you, you must whine until WOTC wrecks the game so that your feelings aren't hurt.

No, you're thinking of Strawman: the Nerdrage-ening. Just play D&D and you'll be fine. As long as you play it right.