It's a bit of a cult hit and 3e seems quite popular.
I get that its gonzo. I like that.
But it always came across as just the wrong side of gonzo; juvenile and shallow.
What am I missing?
Quote from: Biscuitician;972799It's a bit of a cult hit and 3e seems quite popular.
I get that its gonzo. I like that.
But it always came across as just the wrong side of gonzo; juvenile and shallow.
What am I missing?
Just out of curiosity what makes you think it's juvenile? Which parts?
I've not read the 3rd edition - Just the 2e from the 90s. But I don't remember it being too kiddy. One or two concepts seemed a bit predictable given the cosmology. But I liked the background overall.
Never heard of it. Maybe people enjoy it. Or maybe the people that don't care for it have other things to discuss rather than raging against a game they don't have to play.
Well, there's a lot of potential for social satire. Mutant Chronicles is more like our world than 40k. There are nationalist stereotypes shooting each other over scraps of land while the Dark Legion advances. It's a bit of over the top pulp heroics and a bit of big men and big monsters with big guns (as Paul Bonner once put it). Honestly I'm a bit mixed on third edition. It's more thematically unified but it's lost some of the darker elements like the Brotherhood being as bad or worse than the Dark Legion and Cybertronic being less nebulous and more defined. At one point Cybertronic did all of its recruiting with mind control drugs and brainwashing, now that's just a rumor started by people who hate Cybertronic. The sourcebooks add a lot of depth to the factions that might not quite show in the core book. Among the human factions there are no bad guys and no good guys, just people rammed into idealized societies that were created when their founders abandoned earth and are imposed on them by the elite upper classes.
Anyhow, I would have preferred the tone of the first edition rpg which was more noir and morally ambiguous. I always liked the piece of short fiction featuring a young school teacher's life of quiet desperation and the illustration of the mother and child looking for the father's name on the base of a heroic, larger than life statue.
But you may be right, in that the stereotypes and societies are a bit offensive by modern standards. I think it's mitigated by them all being equally obnoxious in their own ways. One theme is common among all the corporations, the rich and the powerful reap the benefits and rule from on high while the common scramble to survive. Nobody ever claims that these societies are right or that one is better than the others. They're all toxic and loosing a war against a cartoonishly evil force because they can't stop squabbling. It begs the question of whether we'd do any better today.
Quote from: The Exploited.;972804Just out of curiosity what makes you think it's juvenile? Which parts?
I've not read the 3rd edition - Just the 2e from the 90s. But I don't remember it being too kiddy. One or two concepts seemed a bit predictable given the cosmology. But I liked the background overall.
it comes across as a not very subtle 40k style dystopia, and not in a particularly clever way.
I could be wrong, i've never had the chance to read it and would happily be corrected.
Quote from: Biscuitician;972816it comes across as a not very subtle 40k style dystopia, and not in a particularly clever way.
I could be wrong, i've never had the chance to read it and would happily be corrected.
That's true. It's definitely not a subtle game or intended to be in fairness... It reminds me of Starship Troopers, in the way it's pretty satirical and in your face. But it also takes the piss out of corporations as well at the military. I can't really speak for the third edition to be fair, but original was pretty dark. I'm certainly not bothered by the stereotypes as I think that's it's interwoven into the fabric of the game. But I suppose that could offend some poeple...
While I love WFRP I'm not really a fan of 40k.
I did love the visuals of the original Mutant Chronicles though, as most of it was done by Paul 'the god' Bonner as David has already mentioned. I believe he's not too involved (if at all with the 3rd version). Shame, if it's true...
I never played it or even ever met anyone who ever played it. It was alway one of those games that was just always "Around" shops and cons without anyone actually playing or owning it.
I would give it a chance if someone around here ran it. It looked like goofball fun in the spirit of cheapo 90's big-guns & musclemen dystopias like the Marvel 2099 line or the Stallone Judge Dredd.
Quote from: Biscuitician;972816it comes across as a not very subtle 40k style dystopia, and not in a particularly clever way.
I could be wrong, i've never had the chance to read it and would happily be corrected.
(emphasis mine)
So... you dislike something you know only by hearsay?
Okay, I'll play along.
Here's the kicker: Warhammer 40,000 is the more diverse and encompassing setting. Everything MC does, W40k could do and more. -But- whereas W40k is broader in setting, MC has more -focus-. The trick is in knowing how to focus it. See, both MC and Dark Heresy are about people in a horrible future, dealing with even worse nightmare-fueled cults. There's a ton of thematic overlap there, and the distinction between the supernatural horrors of one game and the other can seem like window dressing. So we have to consider where the two differ, and that's where things take off.
W40k is essentially about a giant megalithic united human empire fighting all sorts of foes. Mutant Chronicles is about a bunch of feuding human factions fighting each other through armies, espionage, and cultural warfare efforts... and then "space demons"* show up. There's three different time periods you can set your game in, with some different feel to each. But really, the game falls flat when it tries to be a Warhammer 40,000 heart breaker (and it does!) and rises when it instead embraces a kind of 80's era crime noir low-tech-cyberpunk vibe (which it does as well!). It really helps to think of it in terms of "Kult in Space" too, drawing more heavily on things like Hellraiser or (the later) Event Horizon or Pandorum, but with a strong Blade Runner or maybe Dredd vibe as well**.
And there's some interesting little side-bits, like how the Dark Apostles are statted up so players can kill them (temporarily at least), the different human factions feel and play differently, and a cosmology I won't spoil but has way more hope than W40k ever offered. Again, there's nothing here that wouldn't work in 40k, but 40k instead tends to focus on other stuff.
(*there's actually some interesting setting stuff for why the Dark Legions look so... weird. Turns out they're remnants of races that the Dark Symmetry has already defeated and added to it's forces through corruption and damnation.)
(**I won't mention the Mutant Chronicles movie because, while I enjoyed it... it's a pretty bad movie that's only useful for exploring the idea of Necromutant manufacture perhaps. Fun cast though!)
Quote from: san dee jota;972833(emphasis mine)
So... you dislike something you know only by hearsay?
Okay, I'll play along.
Here's the kicker: Warhammer 40,000 is the more diverse and encompassing setting. Everything MC does, W40k could do and more. -But- whereas W40k is broader in setting, MC has more -focus-. The trick is in knowing how to focus it. See, both MC and Dark Heresy are about people in a horrible future, dealing with even worse nightmare-fueled cults. There's a ton of thematic overlap there, and the distinction between the supernatural horrors of one game and the other can seem like window dressing. So we have to consider where the two differ, and that's where things take off.
W40k is essentially about a giant megalithic united human empire fighting all sorts of foes. Mutant Chronicles is about a bunch of feuding human factions fighting each other through armies, espionage, and cultural warfare efforts... and then "space demons"* show up. There's three different time periods you can set your game in, with some different feel to each. But really, the game falls flat when it tries to be a Warhammer 40,000 heart breaker (and it does!) and rises when it instead embraces a kind of 80's era crime noir low-tech-cyberpunk vibe (which it does as well!). It really helps to think of it in terms of "Kult in Space" too, drawing more heavily on things like Hellraiser or (the later) Event Horizon or Pandorum, but with a strong Blade Runner or maybe Dredd vibe as well**.
And there's some interesting little side-bits, like how the Dark Apostles are statted up so players can kill them (temporarily at least), the different human factions feel and play differently, and a cosmology I won't spoil but has way more hope than W40k ever offered. Again, there's nothing here that wouldn't work in 40k, but 40k instead tends to focus on other stuff.
(*there's actually some interesting setting stuff for why the Dark Legions look so... weird. Turns out they're remnants of races that the Dark Symmetry has already defeated and added to it's forces through corruption and damnation.)
(**I won't mention the Mutant Chronicles movie because, while I enjoyed it... it's a pretty bad movie that's only useful for exploring the idea of Necromutant manufacture perhaps. Fun cast though!)
I don't
hate it. I just don't think it looks very good.
People form opinions and make judgements, welcome to life!
One thing to keep in mind about Mutant Chronicles and 40k is that MC was largely created by ex-GW employees like Paul Bonner and Mark Copplestone who sculpted the original space marine miniatures. It's not so much a rip-off as a response. Back in the day there was a lot of bitterness lurking beneath the surface. It's not a coincidence that it's a setting of horrible corporations and doomed warriors fighting their way into citadels full of mindless zombies. Their magazines certainly weren't above the occasional cheap shot back in the day.
I often describe the setting as Buck Rogers verses Hell Raiser. The inner planets of the setting are pure pulp. Jungles and dinosaurs on Venus. Red deserts on Mars. Jungle tunnels on Mercury. Oh, some attempt has been made to rationalize it. Before the Dark Legion came, the corporations were pretty good at gravity manipulation. Really, the legion is the weakest part of the setting. If it didn't give PCs from different corporations a common enemy to shoot at I'd probably just ignore it.
It's certainly a rule of cool / drive the tank closer I want to hit them with my sword, kind of setting. The current version of the rpg certainly makes epic stuff possible. I had an Ashigaru pc who was unstoppable with a sword and even cut an attack helicopter out of the sky at one point. I have mixed feelings about the rpg. It has some pretty good legacy features from the original and actually works okay in play if you don't look at the resource rules too closely. It really ties the characters into the setting but making 4 career characters takes quite a while. It's good that there's an inexpensive player's book that covers character creation. You need multiple books for this game.
I'd have done a lot of things differently but many of my favorite games do that. I can write a game that does what I'd do just fine. The discussion of range bands is the best I've ever found and pretty much redeemed the concept in my eyes.
But I think part of the appeal is that Mutant Chronicles has been around since the early nineties and it gets some credit for doing things early on, if not first. While the 40k universe and MC universe would probably integrate into each other quite easily. Each corporation could exist as a world government on an industrial world in 40k with pretty much no conflict. Put them on the same world and they'd be shooting at each other so much that the Inquisition would eventually destroy the planet just to shut them up. But it's the human level of the setting and the easily recognizable societies and tropes that make MC great for roleplaying. People who don't know 40k generally have trouble playing to the setting and don't really get Space Marines and Eldar. Elitist Germans and corrupt Americans and popculture obsessed samurai and belligerent Brits and inscrutable cyberpunks are, on the other hand very easy to pick up and play.
Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;972829I never played it or even ever met anyone who ever played it. It was alway one of those games that was just always "Around" shops and cons without anyone actually playing or owning it.
I would give it a chance if someone around here ran it. It looked like goofball fun in the spirit of cheapo 90's big-guns & musclemen dystopias like the Marvel 2099 line or the Stallone Judge Dredd.
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If it helps, I dislike the 3rd edition very much?
Google "mutantpedia" and look the original if you haven't already. It is flawed in more ways than one, but gloriously so.
Quote from: baragei;972868If it helps, I dislike the 3rd edition very much?
Google "mutantpedia" and look the original if you haven't already. It is flawed in more ways than one, but gloriously so.
what's wrong with 3e?
Quote from: Biscuitician;972799It's a bit of a cult hit and 3e seems quite popular.
I get that its gonzo. I like that.
But it always came across as just the wrong side of gonzo; juvenile and shallow.
What am I missing?
You say "juvenile" and "shallow" as if they were bad things.
I love the gonzo corporations, the Imperial Trencher miniatures looked fantastic, and the recent-but-widely-despised RPG hits the fun button for me hugely.
I know mostly the board game and a little of the Wargame. To date never seen the RPG. But doesnt surprise me that one edition or another was hit or miss. That is par for the course really.
Isnt Mutant Chronicles an outgrowth of the even older Mutant RPG?
Funfact. I did a a whole mod pack for Alien Assault to re-create the board game. AA was formerly Space Hulk. :cool:
Sadly seems like the site is gone??? :(
The setting is interesting, and oddly enough to me it has more of a Battletech feel to it of warring inner factions and an outer threat.
Two words: Jay Little.
Glue some questionable editorial decisions on his creative ..something, and you got MC3. It doesn't really look too bad at first glance, but reads like an etruscan text, and plays only marginally better.
Quote from: baragei;972890Two words: Jay Little.
I don't follow RPG creators so I have no idea who that is or if that is supposed be a good thing or a bad thing.
I've played a decent amount of 1st and 2nd and would like to run 3rd. The system for 3rd looks like fun, though I wish it were a little less clunky-crunchy.
I don't care about its "derivative" setting and I certainly am not bothered by the stereotypes (actually, I kind of love them). I played it as a film noir Blade Runner setting and it was OK. I've played much more of Starship Troopers-style military games and we have had a blast with it (even though the rules got in the way).
I do wish the new rules gave more explicit support for military games. I think "Buck Rogers meet Hellraiser" is a pretty awesome description. When I get a chance to run 3rd, I want to do "Band of Brothers meets Hellraiser with a side of Roughnecks and Kult."
Quote from: AaronBrown99;972879I love the gonzo corporations, the Imperial Trencher miniatures looked fantastic, and the recent-but-widely-despised RPG hits the fun button for me hugely.
Why do you say widely, got any evidence for that?
I've savaged the 3e here a few times, so maybe that's what he's referencing. I'm a fan of the setting and the first edition RPG (adn the second, though I only ever found a PDF file for it.... no book.), the third was an... unwelcome direction... for the rules... never mind the half naked russian air-motorcycle chicks they added are silly. Russia is cold*, its sorta famous for it.
*actually, much of Russia is quite pleasant, the Crimea region for example is a vacation spot on par with the Cote d'Azure... but when we talk about 'Russia' in just about any non-vacation conversation we think of Father Winter, Ice Palaces, Tundra and were-yeti... not half naked bikini chicks working on their tan on the Black Sea beaches. Well... maybe we should...
Quote from: Spike;972983I've savaged the 3e here a few times, so maybe that's what he's referencing. I'm a fan of the setting and the first edition RPG (adn the second, though I only ever found a PDF file for it.... no book.), the third was an... unwelcome direction... for the rules... never mind the half naked russian air-motorcycle chicks they added are silly. Russia is cold*, its sorta famous for it.
*actually, much of Russia is quite pleasant, the Crimea region for example is a vacation spot on par with the Cote d'Azure... but when we talk about 'Russia' in just about any non-vacation conversation we think of Father Winter, Ice Palaces, Tundra and were-yeti... not half naked bikini chicks working on their tan on the Black Sea beaches. Well... maybe we should...
I haven't seen this in Whitestar yet. Tried looking for images but couldn't find any. This sounds like exactly the kind of silliness I approve of and would play totally straight in my game.
Dunno about 3rd edition. I've played 1st and 2nd. It's a fun game. Rules are meh but serviceable. World is cool in that Noir meets 40k way.
And the IP produced one of my favorite board games, Siege of the Citadel.
The other option if the rules are a bit 'meh'. Is to go for the Savage World's version of 3e.
Then toss out the new stuff of the 3e setting and go back to the vibe of 1st or 2nd. Although, that's assuming people actually like Savage Worlds - Which I do.
Quote from: The Exploited.;973283The other option if the rules are a bit 'meh'. Is to go for the Savage World's version of 3e.
Then toss out the new stuff of the 3e setting and go back to the vibe of 1st or 2nd. Although, that's assuming people actually like Savage Worlds - Which I do.
There is a Savage Worlds book called "Necropolis something" that seems to share a lot of the Mutant Chronicles vibe. I can't be sure as I've not played either game, my only exposure to Mutant Chronicles is via the criminally underrated Ron Perlman movie, critics be damned.
Quote from: Soylent Green;973303There is a Savage Worlds book called "Necropolis something" that seems to share a lot of the Mutant Chronicles vibe. I can't be sure as I've not played either game, my only exposure to Mutant Chronicles is via the criminally underrated Ron Perlman movie, critics be damned.
That's a good one too. Personally, I liked that one because the religious background was explicitly Catholic, which I appreciated...but the "Catholic Church" they described was pretty far from reality. But it was still pretty cool.
Okay, 2d20 basics, I should save this I keep redoing it :D
Character creation is stage limited life path with big 2d20 event tables. Essentially you can add 1 to each skill expertise, skill focus, and attribute for each life stage, starting in adolescence. It's okay but slow and not too exciting. There are also talent trees.
Money is handled in 'Resources' that represent a couple thousand dollars. The character makes an appropriate skill roll to find what they're looking for and then rolls their earnings damage dice (seriously) to see how much they can scrounge up without dipping into their savings. This is okay if you hand out lots of Resources but the petty cash won't let Donald Trump buy a car or anything. My patch would be to allow PCs to roll for savings every month and add them to their Resources. It's not a very popular rule.
Actions are resolved by rolling one or more d20s. Mooks roll 1d20 and heroes roll two d20 (you don't add them up so it's not 2d20 whatever the name of the game may be). If you roll under attribute (average is 8) + skill expertise (1-5) you get one success. If you roll under skill focus (1-5) you get two successes. If you roll a 20 the other side gets a plot point. GM plot points can be used to jam guns inflict dread etc. I actually love the dread mechanic, the more points you accumulate the more plot points you give to the GM with it capping out a 16 - 20. People under stress make more mistakes in this game. Difficulty is represented by requiring a number of successes, so a basic difficulty of 1 requires one success.
The game gives out chronicle points which can be spent to put down a roll of 1 on a d20 or buy features and events in the game. There are also momentum points which can be used for extra damage or to help other PCs by buying more dice. There are also Dark Symmetry Points which the GM uses to activate the bad guy's heavy weapons and special powers. This mechanic is very adversarial and often feels like having your hands tied behind your back. Still, players tend to enjoy the power it gives them. It's only stated in one place I can find but the GM gets 1 DSP for every Chronicle point the pcs have. This is the part that people hate most, I'm thinking.
Range bands give a penalty for being closer and further. I like this, it's efficient and makes a pistol better than a heavy machine gun at close quarters.
For damage you roll special d6s and add so a gun might do 2 + 2devil. Essentially 1 & 2 = +1 & 2 damage, 3 - 5 = squat, 6 = weapon special effect. You have hit points per location after which you have serious and critical wound points.
Quote from: Biscuitician;972799It's a bit of a cult hit and 3e seems quite popular.
I get that its gonzo. I like that.
But it always came across as just the wrong side of gonzo; juvenile and shallow.
What am I missing?
To my knowledge, nothing. But to answer your thread title "(Why Isn't This Hated?"), why
would it be hated? What you've described is a game that is excessively mediocre.
mediocre isn't hated.
mediocre is ignored.
Things with lots of potential that seems squandered those are hated. Things that everyone (it seems) loves and you don't know why, those are hated. Things that try to hard to tell you how much you are supposed to like them, those are hated. mediocre. mediocre just keeps on keeping on.
Quote from: Soylent Green;972878You say "juvenile" and "shallow" as if they were bad things.
I'll never understand where the correct amount of seriousnesses and adulthood is supposed to be for the average gamer. It seems to be some fictional neverwhere that cannot be achieved.
Quote from: Biscuitician;972956Why do you say widely, got any evidence for that?
I say widely reflecting on this forum, where the designer's name is almost a swear word. On EnWorld, any thread about a 2d20 game will bring out the threadcrappers eventually.
No, I don't provide evidence when I'm expressing what I've observed in my own experience, it's purely anecdotal.
Quote from: Soylent Green;973303There is a Savage Worlds book called "Necropolis something" that seems to share a lot of the Mutant Chronicles vibe. I can't be sure as I've not played either game, my only exposure to Mutant Chronicles is via the criminally underrated Ron Perlman movie, critics be damned.
Oh god... Generally, I like Ron but that film was utter pig's swill.
Nice one! Actually, I forgot about Necropolis. That's probably a better option for SW...
Especially, if you like 40k. But the vibe is pretty similar to MC as well (the early editions at any rate, not a 'big'). I've not read that in a good while. I must dig it out... :)
Necropolis 2350. It's a solid little 40k-esque take on the last of humanity fighting off monstrous invaders. It's a very militaristic game with the way it handles things like the Ordos and the support you can call in during missions. But a good GM can easily flip things over to the corporations' side and run something more akin to Shadowrun. There are even some new PDFs coming out now that flesh out the different Ordos even more, though I think they're overpriced.
Maybe I'll throw a setting rundown out for people who aren't familiar with Mutant Chronicles.
In the late 21 and early 22 centuries a quartet of megacorporations get into a war with Earth's governments and due to ecological devastation and resource depletion opt for a scorched earth policy as they leave for the inner planets. Capitol is the largest megacorporation, an amalgamation of the major American businesses, takes control of Mars. Bauhaus, primarily German and has often come close to rivaling Capitol takes control of Venus. Mishima is a Japanese corporation which, forced to scramble for scraps settles for Mercury. Imperial, is a British corporation that comes together barely in time to get off the Earth and makes its home in the asteroid belt. The Earth's moon, Luna is settled by all four corporations and eventually is entirely covered with urban sprawl. The corporations take pride in their heritage trying to recreate and purify national stereotypes. The processes used to terraform the worlds and even asteroids leaves them very much like pulp science fiction would have them.
Minor wars and take overs slowly build into serious corporate war, ever hungry Imperial casts its gaze beyond Jupiter to Pluto where explorers discover a strange temple and a plaque and unleash the Dark Legion on humanity. The Dark Soul is a powerful spirit supported by powerful servants called the Dark Apostles. As each Apostle manifests, humanity encounters a new threat. Illian, mistress of the void's dark gates provide access for Semi, apostle of spite's heretics and fifth columns, Mujwajii apostle of insanity gnaws at the mind in dreams and increases the levels of violence and madness in human conflicts, Demnogonis apostle of disease spreads plagues among society, and finally Algeroth apostle of war's armies are ready to descend upon humanity and nearly wins until a spiritual movement called the Brotherhood lead by its Cardinal rally the corporations and slowly take back the inner worlds. Following the victories they build the great cathedrals on each of humanity's worlds, carving the chronicles of the war into the very stone to prevent corruption. The Cartel is founded in an attempt to keep the peace among the corporations. Over time knowledge of the Dark Legion is suppressed and the use of many advanced technologies are banned due to the Dark Legion's ability to corrupt them (by which I mean the computer gets up and tries to kill you with its cable not just a bit of hacking and data loss).
Over time the new status quo is disturbed by new wars. A new corporation, Cybertronic arises overnight as the result of treachery and stock market manipulation. Cybertronic's hardware seems strangely resistant to the power of the Dark Symmetry. The Brotherhood is suspicious of this newcomer. Imperial sees it as a target ripe for conquest. Capitol, Mishima, and Bauhaus find the new technology useful and choose to work with them when it is to their advantage.
Then, almost without warning the citadel of Saladin drops from the heavens on Mars. Elite special forces from each corporation are coopted by The Cartel and sent to investigate. They return with evidence that the Dark Legion has returned and the balance of power shifts once again.
Meanwhile, the abandoned tribes of Earth now known as Dark Eden look heavenward and shake their fists and await their day of vengeance.
I knew all that very well, but I read it again and still said, "yup, I think that's cool."
Vis-a-vis the thread title, I know it's kind of late to ask, but why would any RPG be hated? They're all fairly harmless, even the ones I know objectively are stupid, bad, and no fun and the people who think they enjoy them are obviously mistaken and living in a fool's paradise.
The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.
I am deleting my content.
I recommend you do the same.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;973322To my knowledge, nothing. But to answer your thread title "(Why Isn't This Hated?"), why would it be hated? What you've described is a game that is excessively mediocre.
The board game and wargame werent. In fact Heartbreaker MC wargame minis were equal or better quality that Games Workshop. Also good quality art overall.
Quote from: Omega;972886Isnt Mutant Chronicles an outgrowth of the even older Mutant RPG?
A little history:
First were the Mutant rpg, a swedish rpg with Mad Max/Road Warrior post civilization's downfall vibes, but also slight fantasy vibes, but using mutated humans and anthropomorphic animals instead of fantasy races to populate the world, along with a mutated animals. Psionics were around as well as radiation-high forbidden zones.
It Flourished.
But then, at the start of the 90's, the ones that had the rights to it decided they wanted to go full-on Cyberpunk on it, removing essentially all playable mutants, at most leaving psionics and mutated animals (no anthropomorphic ones).
It went .... not over very well.
Then, they made a foray into a space concept with an expansion called essentially "Mutant Space" where they mixed a few aspects of Kult into it as well.
This expansion was made for the mutant-less and cyberpunk'ed version of Mutant, and eventually its creators went even further into the "let's copy GW" and made Mutant Chronicles.
I was a long time very salty over the mutants having gotten ditched from a game named MUTANT ..... and used to call Mutant Chonicles by .... other names.
But, alas, since then, the original MUTANT rpg has returned, the cyberpunk version is forgotten or evolved into MC and .... well, I prefer the miniatures games and the Card Games based on the MC setting far more than the rpg.
I essentially bothers less.
The setting is interesting in itself, but with it's wannabe-WH40K-tendencies, it do seem to work best either in more strategical games, or by empathising the parts without those tendencies, as others have already said.
I'd argue that the only real GW wannabe parts are the big shoulder pads and guns. Well and Demnogonis who is very much a relative of Nurgle though without the redeeming / creepy loving uncle aspect and the weight problem. Actually it might be interesting to know who's uncle inspired GW to create Nurgle.
Quote from: Justin Alexander;973709GURPS killed my mother. I will never rest until it has paid for its crime.
Didn't Munchkin already slay that dragon?
Quote from: Soylent Green;973303There is a Savage Worlds book called "Necropolis something" that seems to share a lot of the Mutant Chronicles vibe.
Necropolis 2350.
Although I'd say it's less a "Mutant Chronicles heartbreaker", and more along the lines of "Doom the RPG, but with a strong religious costuming". MC has a weird kind of optimism to it; humanity is in a war for survival, but it feels winnable. Even the big bads are statted up so you can (temporarily) kill them. And then, if you dig really deep into the setting... it's still kind of weirdly optimistic. Which is what sets it apart from Necropolis and W40k.
Quote from: Soylent Green;973303I can't be sure as I've not played either game, my only exposure to Mutant Chronicles is via the criminally underrated Ron Perlman movie, critics be damned.
It's a B-movie set in a streamlined version of the MC universe. It's cheesy, dumb, and violent... which makes it kind of fun. (it also has a pretty solid, if underused, cast)
QuoteVis-a-vis the thread title, I know it's kind of late to ask, but why would any RPG be hated?
Nerdrage is a Hell of a drug.
Quote from: David Johansen;973667Then, almost without warning the citadel of Saladin drops from the heavens on Mars. Elite special forces from each corporation are coopted by The Cartel and sent to investigate.
This is the plot of the Siege of the Citadel boardgame. Easily my favorite minis boardgame. So damn fun.
Quote from: Spinachcat;973900This is the plot of the Siege of the Citadel boardgame. Easily my favorite minis boardgame. So damn fun.
Yep, they kickstarted a new edition last fall. I sure hope they don't screw it up by trying to fix the rules. I mean there are things that could be tweaked a bit and I'm happy to see things like a Brotherhood and Luna City expansion but man it would be easy to screw it up. The game was so elegant. Groundbreaking doesn't even begin to describe it. I can't figure out how FFG missed the ball and made that stupid and ugly collectable game with the recycled Doom boardgame mechanics instead.
Quote from: Dumarest;973775Didn't Munchkin already slay that dragon?
Ouch!
Quote from: David Johansen;973936I can't figure out how FFG missed the ball and made that stupid and ugly collectable game with the recycled Doom boardgame mechanics instead.
Which game is that? The Warzone collectible one?
Yeah, the 54mm one that they repackaged because the figures were so bad.
I bought a ton of it :D
Quote from: David Johansen;973940Yeah, the 54mm one that they repackaged because the figures were so bad.
I bought a ton of it :D
Good to know; I almost bought it today.
Just finished scenario 8 of Siege of the Citadel with my boys. We always do something wrong each time we play, so the campaign scores are whacked, but we're having fun.
The only thing I've ever heard hated about Mutant Chronicles was that the newest version uses Mophidius' system. Most of the locals are pretty meh on the setting, but those who like it, like it.
Really, as far as the setting goes people either seem to hate it because it is too much like Warhammer 40000 or because it isn't enough like Warhammer 40000. Really, it does look a lot like Warhammer 40000 to people who don't know the settings. The newer art in both cases reduces the degree to which that is true as Paul Boner gets further in the past for both games.
I don't hate it because I don't know enough about it to hate it. I had a copy of the Siege of the Citadel boardgame ages ago, but don't think I ever played it. I did mine some of the minis for 40K. That is the extent of my knowledge.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;973975The only thing I've ever heard hated about Mutant Chronicles was that the newest version uses Mophidius' system.
Even worse, it's the "1e" of Modiphius' system. The newer versions in Conan and Star Trek Adventures do a good job of refining it (although if you don't like the system, it's still not going to be all that appealing to you), but MC3e still using an ugly, warty version of it.
A big part of that is that they were implementing a lot of legacy mechanics like the stat block while trying to merge it with their own preferences. I got two ceramic dishes, a white one for momentum and a black one for Dark Symmetry Points. There's just something about that tinkling sound as points go in the pot.
I expect they'll do a cleaned up edition eventually. It's not terrible, it's just all over the place and often has confusing explanations or ones that only appear in one place. I do think they need to disengage the narrativist stuff like DSP and Momentum from the core of the game. Make it optional. Give a cash conversion system or even just hand out cash. Make damage straight d6s. The cool dice are only cool if you can get ahold of them.