In film and TV, we have a few Muslim characters that may be considered or could have conceivably been a character in a roleplaying game.

In the movie The 13th Warrior, Antonio Banderas plays the character of Ahmed Ibn Al Abbas Ibn Rashid Ibn Hamad. (In some ways that move reminds me of both the Dirty Dozen and the Magnificent Seven. )

 On the TV series "Lost" , the character of Sayid Jarrah  (played by Naveen Andrews) is portrayed as both a "hero" and a reverent muslim.

With examples like that in mind, could a scenario or even a whole campaign be bulit around a group of Muslim  "heroes" ?

 In the BANESTORM setting ?

  SHADOWRUN?

The TRAVELLER universe?

 A STAR TREK setting?

 D20 MODERN?
 or even  the URBAN ARCANA setting ?

- E.W.C.

I've often thought about it, but then most of the players I know fall into the two extremes - relatively ignorant, or relatively liberal. The ignorant ones will play a Moslem character as a mad fanatic, sort of like a Viking beserker with "Allah" on his lips, and the liberal ones will try so hard not to be like the ignorant one, the Moslem character will be pretty bland and lifeless. Just as when you have male players playing female characters, often they're just males with boobs, so too when you get Christian-background players playing Moslems.

Neither of those extremes is very interesting and fun, so I tend to just have them roleplay whatever occurs to them, rather than suggesting someone very different, such as a Moslem woman.

Same goes for gay characters, too. Or Chinese, or...

That's the experience I've had with players roleplaying characters of very different backgrounds to themselves, so that's why I've never encouraged the whole group to try it.

These sorts of issues I tend to leave to the players to decide. To me, the character in Thirteenth Warrior was Muslim but firs the was a hero. As a GM I feel it is my role to set up a setting that the players can play what they wish but I should not be forcing them to play any particular type.

That said, I have laid out suggestions and even made entire pregenerated groups. My approach is again, more about making heroes than making Muslim/Christian/Judaic/bhuddist heroes. Sometimes, it is an important element top a character but that is invariably the decision of the player. Making someone run a Muslim character when they have no interest in religion means they will invariably play what they know. If that is Christianity, then you will have a very Christian Muslim.

Of course, just my take on it.

Bill

Wasn't thinking of "making" anyone do anything.

 Just thinking out loud here about encouraging that kind of thing  . Thats all.

 A little "thinking outside the Box" never hurt a player or GM.

 I'm pretty sure I've got two players who could handle that background  with a character.

- E.W.C.

I don't think there's anything so special about being a Muslim that would make this any different from a character of any other faith.

If the character wasn't practising, I doubt it would even come up much.

I don't think religion (real world religions that is), is relevent in many games. Even in historical games I don't think it comes up. Maybe it does, but mostly it's just an unspoken thing. I mean in modern/contemporary games religion -any religion - is not exactly noted on the character sheet. I suppose if you were playing in a setting where religion was an important part of the campaign - let's say a game based on the Crusades - than religion would be important - Christianity and Islam .

I have only gamed with one player who incorporated religion in all his characters. "Religion is important to me in real life, and I want it to be important to my fictional characters" He's a devout Muslim, but in all his games, religion although not a characteristic that overtly shapes his characters is always present.

In UA he played a Hindu. In 2020 he is a lapsed Muslim - only because the campaign is based in the Mid East and I'm using stuff from When Gravity Fails - in In Harms Way he's a Christian with an interest in Arabic culture and in Islam in particular. The sme goes for fantasy/sf religions. Religions either made or real are part of his characters.

I suppose a lot of this depends on what ethnic group the characters belong to, but that's a converstaion for another time.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: BalbinusI don't think there's anything so special about being a Muslim that would make this any different from a character of any other faith.

If the character wasn't practising, I doubt it would even come up much.

So you're the kind of player who, as a male, plays a female character as a man with boobs?

Why is your assumption that the character won't be practicing their faith? Why is that the first idea that pops into your head? Could it be that you're saying to yourself, "dunno how to play the guy... so I'll just make them non-practicing, and then their faith won't matter... just like when I played that woman character, I made her totally asexual and a bit butch, so that it didn't matter that she was a woman"?

I say that even people who are secular and non-practicing, their religious background influences their worldview. There are a few cliches here, Catholic guilt, Protestant work ethic, Jewish debating, and so on. They're cliches because there's an element of truth in them; and for every big thing like that, there are a dozen small things. There are small differences in worldviews between people of different faiths, however devout they are or aren't about it all.

Playing someone with an entirely different worldview is often difficult, but the differences are so great that the contrast can actually help us play them; but playing someone with a slightly different worldview is harder, still. The monotheistic faiths are all very similar, but the small differences are very significant to the people involved; those small differences are quite difficult to roleplay.

That's why gamers so often go for the stereotypes and cliches, the Loner Badarse, the lesbianstripperninja, the aggressive werewolf, the Warrior Woman Who Is Basically A Man With Boobs, and so on. It's bloody hard to roleplay someone with a different worldview, and even harder if it's just a little bit different. I know - I've failed at it a heap of times! And I'm not the only one, it seems...

I dunno. Allison played a female character that was kind of asexual and butch. Maybe women aren't so different after all.

Quote from: JimBobOzSo you're the kind of player who, as a male, plays a female character as a man with boobs?

Why is your assumption that the character won't be practicing their faith? Why is that the first idea that pops into your head? Could it be that you're saying to yourself, "dunno how to play the guy... so I'll just make them non-practicing, and then their faith won't matter... just like when I played that woman character, I made her totally asexual and a bit butch, so that it didn't matter that she was a woman"?

It wasn't, my first para talked about a character with faith, my second about one who wasn't practicising.

That said, no it's nothing to do with not knowing how to play one, it's about the fact that the vast majority of the muslims I have known as friends or colleagues (and there have been quite a few) and the nominally Muslim woman I lived with for several years weren't practising.  Simple as that, it's because that's how most muslims I tend to meet are.

The ones I have worked with who were practising were not so different to the practising Christians I have worked with, it wasn't much of a big deal.

In other words, I'm basing my comments on extensive real world experience that it doesn't make much of a difference to anything.

Quote from: David RI don't think religion (real world religions that is), is relevent in many games. Even in historical games I don't think it comes up. Maybe it does, but mostly it's just an unspoken thing. I mean in modern/contemporary games religion -any religion - is not exactly noted on the character sheet.

As a GM, whenever I've created character sheets for players, I always put,
   Name
Race/Sex
Origin
Demeanour
Philosophy
Likes
Dislikes
Habits
Hobbies
Ambitions
The last five I ask for two of each. Most players fill out about half the stuff only, but this is usually enough to have some interesting roleplaying. I don't bother with it in systems with a more "literary" feel, like Fate, because they already give you plenty to work with - but I've found it very useful for the old-style systems where the only things the system talks about are what the character can do, and never who they are.

I've long asked for "philosophies", or worldviews - often these are a religion, but with some twist. A Protestant Capitalist is a different kind of person to an Apocalytic Protestant, or a Messianic Empirical Scientist. And of course I put that stuff in d4-d4. That's the whole point of writing an rpg, so you can promote your own idea of what is good roleplaying

Quote from: David RI suppose if you were playing in a setting where religion was an important part of the campaign - let's say a game based on the Crusades - than religion would be important - Christianity and Islam .

It can be important in all sorts of games - again, I'm talking "philosophy" rather than "religion" solely; it's a rare person whose religion is "pure", not mixed somewhat with capitalism, cynicism, empirical science, or whatever. It's the person's worldview, it's the filter through which the person understands the world.

For example, a person has a long illness, and is told they've six months to live; they pray to Jesus, and live on, recovering fully.

The empirical scientist will call this a "spontaneous remission," and perhaps think it'd be good to study the hormonal effects of prayer, and whether those hormones promote natural antibodies, and...

Whereas the charismatic Christian will say, "it's a miracle." The same event is thus interpreted differently by different philosophies. In all philosophies, people tend to look for evidence to support their point of view: the empirical scientist sees "facts" everywhere, while the charismatic Christian sees "miracles" everywhere. Of course, there are different degrees of philosophy. It should be up to the player how they roleplay their character's philosophy.

Quote from: David RI have only gamed with one player who incorporated religion in all his characters.[...]

In UA he played a Hindu. In 2020 he is a lapsed Muslim - only because the campaign is based in the Mid East and I'm using stuff from When Gravity Fails - in In Harms Way he's a Christian with an interest in Arabic culture and in Islam in particular. The sme goes for fantasy/sf religions. Religions either made or real are part of his characters.

Mate, I envy you this player. Can I have him after you're finished with him?

Quote from: David RI suppose a lot of this depends on what ethnic group the characters belong to, but that's a converstaion for another time.

My experience is that there's a certain kind of white Anglo-background middle-classed male who denies that religion could ever possibly be a significant part of any sane person's life... "Only science and money make sense, if you believe in anything else you must be crazy."

Quote from: JimBobOzPlaying someone with an entirely different worldview is often difficult, but the differences are so great that the contrast can actually help us play them; but playing someone with a slightly different worldview is harder, still. The monotheistic faiths are all very similar, but the small differences are very significant to the people involved; those small differences are quite difficult to roleplay.

In my experience the worldviews are rarely that different, the common influences of Western culture and the massive variations between people just by nature of character massively outweigh these factors.  The small differences often aren't that important to people, and are certainly not more important than say one having a taste for indie music and another for beach rave hits.

I have found that many people assume that particular traits are to do with someone's faith, rather than just to do with them being them.

I remember my then girlfriend when asked if it was a problem her being a Muslim and me a Catholic used to reply "you know, it doesn't really make much difference that we don't believe in different things".  She had a point, the difference in backgrounds mattered mostly in other people's perceptions of us than in anything intrinsic to us.

The other thing I'd add is that in my experience gamer perceptions of how women differ from men often owe more to rather sexist presumptions than to anything in reality.  This is particularly becoming an issue in America from what I see, where ideas of hardcoded gender identities have become very popular again but lack much by way of scientific basis.

Quote from: BalbinusThat said, no it's nothing to do with not knowing how to play one, it's about the fact that the vast majority of the muslims I have known as friends or colleagues (and there have been quite a few) and the nominally Muslim woman I lived with for several years weren't practising.  Simple as that, it's because that's how most muslims I tend to meet are.

Here's an amusing story: my Malay stepsister came over to Perth to study in about '91. Her mother visited very soon after and brought her a prayer mat and a woman's praying outfit (I forget the Malay name). The stuff got left at my flat. Three years later it was still there....

I think there's a lot of 'social religion' in Malaysia. It's a bit like the way people used to go to church in Australia or Britain; it was just something you did because everybody else did. Again, my father lived in Australia for about twenty years and didn't bother to pray once that I recall. Now he's back in Malaysia he goes to mosque every day (in his nicest outfit).

Quote from: droogHere's an amusing story: my Malay stepsister came over to Perth to study in about '91. Her mother visited very soon after and brought her a prayer mat and a woman's praying outfit (I forget the Malay name). The stuff got left at my flat. Three years later it was still there....

I think there's a lot of 'social religion' in Malaysia. It's a bit like the way people used to go to church in Australia or Britain; it was just something you did because everybody else did. Again, my father lived in Australia for about twenty years and didn't bother to pray once that I recall. Now he's back in Malaysia he goes to mosque every day (in his nicest outfit).

I think that's quite common, like I quoted, often it doesn't matter all that much which god you happen not to believe in.

Also, a lot of religious people I encounter are kind of soft religious as it were, they have a degree of faith but worry little about whether they are in line with orthodox dogma of that faith.  I've met plenty of Christians who figured god would reward anyone basically good and gave it little thought in terms of what their church said on the topic (my grandmother, a devout Catholic, takes basically this view) and tons of Muslims who thought Allah wouldn't mind the occasional drink as long as you didn't overdo it.

These folk considered themselves Christians, Muslims, whatever, but again it didn't vastly change their behaviour.  They just figured god or allah was a bit easier going than their churches said.

Quote from: droogI think there's a lot of 'social religion' in Malaysia. It's a bit like the way people used to go to church in Australia or Britain; it was just something you did because everybody else did. Again, my father lived in Australia for about twenty years and didn't bother to pray once that I recall. Now he's back in Malaysia he goes to mosque every day (in his nicest outfit).

Very true. Don't mean to derail this thread, but in many urban areas going to the mosque esp for Friday prayers is a social event. There's a lot of hanging around talking after the prays going on and said talk is not really about the imam's sermon.

Regards,
David R