Quote from: Skywalker;583371I think argument for Star Wars WEG1e (or at least as I have seen it) is that there isn't much examples of things in the book. You get four ships IIRC and a handful of antagonists.

Contrast that to 2e RE and I think you might begin to understand the criticism.

A Star Wars game isn't just any old 'make it up as you go' science fiction thing.  There are preconceived notions about a lot of the characters, vehicles, etc, which are inherent to the setting.  If you're running the game for casual fans, okay fine.  If you're running the game for people who know as much or more than you do about the setting, having "that's what the book says" to fall back on is a HUGE time saver.

Quote from: GrimGent;583416Generally, each nWoD supplement expects familiarity with the main book of its respective line as well as the core rules. So for example, one supplement for Changeling: The Lost doesn't require reading another, let alone Vampire: The Requiem. There are some books which are meant for use with practically any line, though.

Right. What Im talking about is a book titled:

World of Darkness Slashers

This is not a book for World of Darkness only, but for Hunter the Vigil. Much of the book requires that you have Hunter the Vigil because it builds on the rules that are only available in Hunter the Vigil.

I also have World of Darkness Second Sight. That works with the World of Darkness only book and builds only on that book (with some small reference to the other themed books).

Poor decision making or false advertising? WW engaged in one of them.

Quote from: Lynn;583449What Im talking about is a book titled:

World of Darkness Slashers

Oh, it's the title that you found confusing. True, I don't really see the reasoning behind adding in that "WoD", since even in advance everyone kept talking about it as a Hunter supplement. Second Sight is obviously one of the "blue books" for the core line: no ambiguity there.

Quote from: mcbobbo;583439Contrast that to 2e RE and I think you might begin to understand the criticism.

I think its a valid criticism of an RPG. But I just don't think its valid to call Star Wars WEG 1e incomplete.

Quote from: Skywalker;583525I think its a valid criticism of an RPG. But I just don't think its valid to call Star Wars WEG 1e incomplete.

I concur.  Just because you don't have official stats for every piece of technolgy and every race that made an appearance in the movies doesn't mean you can't play a "complete" game of Star Wars.

Quote from: Technomancer;583529I concur.  Just because you don't have official stats for every piece of technolgy and every race that made an appearance in the movies doesn't mean you can't play a "complete" game of Star Wars.

That seems like a bit of a gap between what was in the book and what I remember expecting to have.

Quote from: GrimGent;583416You can't seriously be claiming that, say, any campaign of exorcising ghosts or investigating conspiracies, using only the basic game, isn't complete without also adding in Vampire: The Requiem, Werewolf: The Forsaken, Mage: The Awakening, etc.?

Nope, never claimed anything of the sort. I brought up the nWoD, which includes all the gamelines mentioned. And then I clarified that was what I was talking about. If you want to talk about Wod: Mortals as an individual game, that simply has nothing to do with anything I said.

Quote from: Skywalker;583525I think its a valid criticism of an RPG. But I just don't think its valid to call Star Wars WEG 1e incomplete.

It's a game about a specific setting that breaks the information on that game into one book covering the rules, and one book covering the setting. It's not necessary to have both books to play the game, but they are both core products of the original WEG Star Wars gameline.

Quote from: TristramEvans;583540I brought up the nWoD, which includes all the gamelines mentioned.

Right: the new WoD is, obviously, the default setting in which all the games take place. (As Autumn Nightmares puts it: "The World of Darkness is a horror setting, but Changeling: The Lost is not solely a horror game.") But then, the same applies to every line in the old WoD, as well, with only the difference that it didn't feature a single core book for the basic rules.

Quote from: Skywalker;583342But you can buy WFRP3e in a single product. I guess an argument could be said that the fact the 3 D&D corebooks can be purchased in a slip case is the same as this, but I think this just goes toward the fact that its really hard to define multiple "core" products.

Let's try this again. You could buy a boxed set with enough rules to get you started playing D&D. These have been offered with every edition of the game so far, except when BD&D and AD&D first made the split:







or you can buy the PG, DMG, and MM as separate books. These books contain a vast amount of info not available in the boxed sets.

With WHFRP3E, you can buy the boxed set with enough rules to get you started playing, or you can buy the PG, GMG, and MM as separate books. These books contain a vast amount of info not available in the boxed set.

I'm not seeing any difference here.

QuoteIn any case, if the OP considers BECMI to be a game with multiple "core" books, then I agree that Dragon Age is of similar nature. I just don't think this is the kind of split the OP was getting at.

Fair enough, that also is a slightly different approach, one spearheaded by D&D when it first became "Basic".

QuoteAs above, would you argue that Dragon Age requires multiple core products solely on the basis it has two books in the box set?

QuoteI see the approach of SilCore, nWoD, True20, Savage Worlds, GURPS etc as distinct from D&D's 3 core book approach.

I agree the approach is different. In this case, the gamelines revolve around 1rules-set (although in GURPs case, it's still 2 core products). So, if we're going to strictly define it not as games that require more than one book, rather games that specifically follow the path of D&D where there is a seperate player's guide with the core rules for the game and chargen, a GM's guide with the rules for running the game, that can be purchased seperately, even if they are, like D&D, often also offered together in one boxed set (I have only seen 2 RPGs making use of slipcases in the last 30 years, so I'd just as soon see those as variations on a boxed set).

It is a different approach, however, and of the ones mentioned so far in the post WH3E is the only one that exactly mirrors D&D's approach. There are a few other games, but it tends to be something identified with D&D-like fantasy gamelines specifically. The rather dreadful Fantasy Heartbreaker Imagine RPG did it, as did many of the awful d20 variations.

Quote from: TristramEvans;583541It's a game about a specific setting that breaks the information on that game into one book covering the rules, and one book covering the setting. It's not necessary to have both books to play the game, but they are both core products of the original WEG Star Wars gameline.

Again, are you referring to the Star Wars Sourcebook? If so, I don't think that book was intended to be used the way you have suggested. It was an expansion of the Star Wars WEG1e rulebook with more examples. It was not a setting book for Star Wars IMO

Quote from: TristramEvans;583548Let's try this again. You could buy a boxed set with enough rules to get you started playing D&D.

Good point on the Black Box set shown. That came out at the same time as the initial three books and had PC creation rules IIRC. If that is right then I think it is analagous, though the fact that WFRP3e released the box set a year or so in advance of the books is still a significant factor.

In terms of the other two, the material presented in them differed from the three core books as they lacked the PC creation rules from the RPG, so I don't think they are analogous to the WFRP3e's approach. They are intended to provide a preview and not a complete RPG.

Quote from: TristramEvans;583548With WHFRP3E, you can buy the boxed set with enough rules to get you started playing, or you can buy the PG, GMG, and MM as separate books. These books contain a vast amount of info not available in the boxed set.

I disagree with your assessment here. The box set for WFRP3e contained all the substantial rules for play that were found in those books. The books, which were released years after, added material, such as new careers, subsystems, monster etc, which are not needed to play the game.

Quote from: TristramEvans;583548So, if we're going to strictly define it not as games that require more than one book, rather games that specifically follow the path of D&D where there is a seperate player's guide with the core rules for the game and chargen, a GM's guide with the rules for running the game, that can be purchased seperately, even if they are, like D&D, often also offered together in one boxed set (I have only seen 2 RPGs making use of slipcases in the last 30 years, so I'd just as soon see those as variations on a boxed set).

It seems the OP has bailed on clarifying his question

Quote from: Skywalker;583550Again, are you referring to the Star Wars Sourcebook? If so, I don't think that book was intended to be used the way you have suggested. It was an expansion of the Star Wars WEG1e rulebook with more examples. It was not a setting book for Star Wars IMO

Which one had stats for all the major characters in the setting?

Quote from: TristramEvans;583553Which one had stats for all the major characters in the setting?

You don't need stats of major characters to play the Star Wars RPG.

Quote from: Skywalker;583554You don't need stats of major characters to play the Star Wars RPG.

You also don't need the DMG or M&M to play D&D. So what the OP meant was obviously not limited to just the book with the basic or enough rules to play if you're willing to make up the rest.