Is there a point? Specifically, for arcane casters -- can anyone think of a reason for a Wiz/Sor multiclasser?
I can come up with reasons for a Favoured Soul/Cleric multiclass, because they're different enough in flavour -- in fact, I find myself inspired by the idea to play a character who's favoured by one deity but actually worships another.
But I can't for the life of me think of why one would play a Wiz/Sor, which sounds like a challenge to me. :)
It's a lot of paperwork for no benefit, as far as I can see.
Quote from: Name LipsIt's a lot of paperwork for no benefit, as far as I can see.
Yes, that's what I think, too. I could understand it if you wanted to have twice as many lower-level spells, but that's about it. Unless there's a feat that lets your caster levels stack, or a way to make a specialist wizard and then take spells from the forbidden school(s) as a Sorceror without being penalized...
But I don't think there are.
Why can't the Sorcerer level be used to choose a type of spell that isn't allowed by the Wizard level due to school restrictions? I wasn't aware of such a rule.
You can take spells from forbidden schools as a sorcerer. No, it's not explicitly stated, but there is nothing that says you can't. I don't think a DM would stop you from taking cleric necromancy spells if that was one of your banned wizard school. Sorcery is an equivalent situation -- they share the same spell list, but they aren't the same class.
The reason to take a level of sorceror is to allow you to use spell-trigger items from your prohibited schools, or to allow you to qualify for a prestige class. Marginal benefits, but possible concerns nonetheless.
Quote from: JamieIs there a point? Specifically, for arcane casters -- can anyone think of a reason for a Wiz/Sor multiclasser?
I can come up with reasons for a Favoured Soul/Cleric multiclass, because they're different enough in flavour -- in fact, I find myself inspired by the idea to play a character who's favoured by one deity but actually worships another.
Elric?
Quote from: blakkieWhy can't the Sorcerer level be used to choose a type of spell that isn't allowed by the Wizard level due to school restrictions? I wasn't aware of such a rule.
I didn't know if it was okay or not, but I kind of figured people would decry it. I guess it escapes claims of "minmaxing" because, well, it's not exactly powerful. It's more like maxminning. :)
At first blush it might seem a bit wierd. But once you realize that though both the classes cast Arcane spells their source for those spells are very, very different. So the Wiz/Sor still doesn't know how to memorize a forbidden school spell, but they can cast the "from the gut" version. Cyberzombie's analogy of multiclassing to Cleric instead of Sorcerer is dead on.
Quote from: JamieYes, that's what I think, too. I could understand it if you wanted to have twice as many lower-level spells, but that's about it. Unless there's a feat that lets your caster levels stack, or a way to make a specialist wizard and then take spells from the forbidden school(s) as a Sorceror without being penalized...
But I don't think there are.
No way to make wiz and sor levels stack.
OTOH, as a sorcerer, you definitely could take spells from the schools forbidden to you as a wizard... Those spells you crave enough to go to such lengths had better be low level, though, or you'd better reorient from wizard to sorcerer early in your career... because, seriously, multiclassing that way is... not very good...
Then again, I'm of the opinion that 3rd e definitely worsened the problems multiclass characters had in the previous versions. in 1st e, a character's equivalent level was about 2/3 the sum of his added levels in his various classes, now, his character level is the sum total of his levels, so he's mathematically of low level in every one of his classes... best incentive NOT to multiclass I can think of... has anybody made statistical studies, or enough experience of high level play, to know how multiclassing impacts your ability to face high level threats?
Quote from: Svartalfhas anybody made statistical studies, or enough experience of high level play, to know how multiclassing impacts your ability to face high level threats?
As a player of a Mystic Thurge, I can tell you that the lower caster level bites come time to go against SR. (and while it made sense for the pc, the Elemental Thurgery and whatever the feat is that lets you change cold/fire/elec/etc. into a diff form of damage, focusing on fire damage (Caster level normal spell 13, caster level fire spell 23 got even worse as the levels went up) doesn't work well as almost everything at high levels has fire resistance. (at least that we faced)
Quote from: cnath.rmAs a player of a Mystic Thurge, I can tell you that the lower caster level bites come time to go against SR. (and while it made sense for the pc, the Elemental Thurgery and whatever the feat is that lets you change cold/fire/elec/etc. into a diff form of damage, focusing on fire damage (Caster level normal spell 13, caster level fire spell 23 got even worse as the levels went up) doesn't work well as almost everything at high levels has fire resistance. (at least that we faced)
Elemental Theurge? you mean the elemental savant from Complete Arcane?
And I thought the spellcaster levels gained from those prestige classes DID add to your level for the spellcaster check needed to overcome SR after all, if it makes you proficient enough to know more spell and sling high level stuff, you must have the power to conquer spell resistance... if they do not work that way, those "prestige" classes get a lot suckier than they looked like.
One of my favorite characters in my campaign was a sorcerer/wizard/eldritch master PrC. I thought he was very cool.
Quote from: Droid101One of my favorite characters in my campaign was a sorcerer/wizard/eldritch master PrC. I thought he was very cool.
Eldritch master? what's that? where is that one from? I never heard of it.
Quote from: SvartalfEldritch master? what's that? where is that one from? I never heard of it.
Dragon Magazine. A Sorc PrC that gains some great abilities and additional spells known, but very few new spells cast.
QuoteNo way to make wiz and sor levels stack.
A couple of feats in the Surge of Theurgy article in Dragon 325 would let you do some of the things he mentioned, and I believe that is what he's talking about. It's one of the most viable ways to make multiclassed casters without sucking hard at later levels.
Okay, so there was stuff published that would allow it...
That's Dragon mag stuff, though... I don't know if it's official... and anyway, here in France, I just can't follow Dragon; I have trouble enough keeping a fairly complete collection of Wotc books, let alone magazines and stuff by other publishers.