The more I read MRQII, the more I think it would completely rock as the system for the Birthright setting. What do ya'all more experienced with MRQII think?

I can totally see the various churches as cults. I would let magicians use common magic, and restrict sorcery to blooded scions and elves. Spirit magic I'm still thinking about, maybe use that as elven magic. Empires gives rules sufficient as far as i can tell for running BR at the realm level. The heroic abilities could be used for Blood powers. It would just be a matter of deciding how to present Awnshelien... perhaps they could have little cults of their own or something, or each belong to various "Cult of Shadow" cells that have slightly different runes. Then there's dealing with the halflings and their Shadow World powers and connections... or not, it wouldn't hurt the setting much to leave them out honestly. I'm really kinda liking this line of thought...

Quote from: Sigmund;429047The more I read MRQII, the more I think it would completely rock as the system for the Birthright setting. What do ya'all more experienced with MRQII think?

I can totally see the various churches as cults. I would let magicians use common magic, and restrict sorcery to blooded scions and elves. Spirit magic I'm still thinking about, maybe use that as elven magic. Empires gives rules sufficient as far as i can tell for running BR at the realm level. The heroic abilities could be used for Blood powers. It would just be a matter of deciding how to present Awnshelien... perhaps they could have little cults of their own or something, or each belong to various "Cult of Shadow" cells that have slightly different runes. Then there's dealing with the halflings and their Shadow World powers and connections... or not, it wouldn't hurt the setting much to leave them out honestly. I'm really kinda liking this line of thought...

I'm loving MRQII and Birthright is one of my favorite settings.

I'm not sure how I'd handle bloodlines; it was the element I least liked from the original BR. I like my hero-kings to start as cunning adventures and claw their way from the mud to the throne, thank you very much.

When Reign came out, I did a mash-up of Reign's setting material with the Birthright setting, recasting high fantasy elements as gritty sword-and-sorcery hiding behind myth and folklore. For example, the Gorgon was rumored to be immortal, but actually a hereditary title. The shadow-manipulating sorcerers from one of the Reign Supplements, recast as an Azrai cult, with the Cold Rider as their leader. And so on, and so forth.

The Common Magic/magicians thing is spot-on, and Shamanism as elven magic has a lot of potential. Imagine Rhoubhe Manslayer calling on some really old, really badass spirits dwelling in the darker corners of Cerilia's forests...

Quote from: The Butcher;429048I'm loving MRQII and Birthright is one of my favorite settings.

I'm not sure how I'd handle bloodlines; it was the element I least liked from the original BR. I like my hero-kings to start as cunning adventures and claw their way from the mud to the throne, thank you very much.

When Reign came out, I did a mash-up of Reign's setting material with the Birthright setting, recasting high fantasy elements as gritty sword-and-sorcery hiding behind myth and folklore. For example, the Gorgon was rumored to be immortal, but actually a hereditary title. The shadow-manipulating sorcerers from one of the Reign Supplements, recast as an Azrai cult, with the Cold Rider as their leader. And so on, and so forth.

The Common Magic/magicians thing is spot-on, and Shamanism as elven magic has a lot of potential. Imagine Rhoubhe Manslayer calling on some really old, really badass spirits dwelling in the darker corners of Cerilia's forests...

Absolutely, I think that's the way to go. Elves use spirit magic, it would also go towards explaining their lack of religion.

I've played BR both using blooded scions and not using them and it's awesome either way. I think using MRQII's heroic abilities would simulate the blooded scions adequately but also tone them down a touch, as it's the ability to use true magic (sorcery) that would really set them apart from unblooded. MRQII's system would mean that all the rulers would be able, and most would be willing to learn and use at least a couple sorcery spells. Without "sources" in the game, it might be interesting to open up regency to unblooded folks, especially for guilds and churches. Maybe narrow regency down to just realm rulership and allow churches and guilds to be lead by anyone. Blood-theft is something to consider. I still want to use blooded scions, which explains the Awnshei, which means a mechanic for blood-theft needs to be devised since it's a favorite hobby of the Gorgon. I appreciate your idea of "Gorgon" as the title of that realm, but I like the idea of the Gorgon being THE Gorgon and a major Sauron-style villian. The Spider is another that we got miles of usage out of as we adventured alot in that part of Anuire in our lead-up to freeing Osoerde from the tyranny of the usurper Jason Rainech. I played an elven Ambassador to Osoerde from The Sielwode who pledged to help William Moergan regain his realm in return for aid against the Gorgon and his puppet states, all of which we accomplished, including throwing back an invasion force sent by the Gorgon and lead by a pretty dang big black dragon. It was some of the best gaming I've ever experienced Anyway, it leads me to want to preserve the "bigness" of the Awnshei. I'm totally running with this though. MRQII seems an even better system for BR than any edition of D&D.

Darn you for making me want MRQII even more.

I've always been on the lookout for a better system than AD&D2E for it (despite like AD&D2E for what it is--it just doesn't do Birthright well.)

From what I've read if you can put Birthright abilities there you could do a good job; just don't under power them too much, as bloodtheft is a part of the setting and they do get stronger as things happen.

Cerilia rocks!

And Reign and MRQ II are both very obvious choices and will work well....why didn't I ever see it

Cool stuff. Keep us updated on your ideas and progress, will you?!

Bloodlines are just personal cults. You get a myth and a runic association from the god you're descended from, and then you set some conditions for ascending in rank that're personal. "Rune Priest" just becomes "Full Scion" or whatever. The cult grants a unique spell list of divine spells.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;429111Bloodlines are just personal cults. You get a myth and a runic association from the god you're descended from, and then you set some conditions for ascending in rank that're personal. "Rune Priest" just becomes "Full Scion" or whatever. The cult grants a unique spell list of divine spells.

It would have to be limited though because only one character would belong to that particular cult, is that ok? Haven't read far enough in the rules yet, been alternating between the core rules and the Glorantha book.

Quote from: Silverlion;429068... bloodtheft is a part of the setting and they do get stronger as things happen.

This is the part I'm thinking might require the most tinkering, but given that just about everything else seemingly falls right into place I'm pretty optimistic that it will be a relatively simple matter to deal with.

P.S. Have to get home to read through the book to solidify some of these ideas some more.

Quote from: Sigmund;429116It would have to be limited though because only one character would belong to that particular cult, is that ok? Haven't read far enough in the rules yet, been alternating between the core rules and the Glorantha book.

Shouldn't break anything if they're personal instead of public. I'd just make the advancement conditions not rely on any external factors (like tithing or examinations), and have it be purely internal (skill levels, POW requirements, etc.).

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;429200and have it be purely internal (skill levels, POW requirements, etc.).

Bloodtheft (Part of absorbing more POW), Rulership of a realm related to your bloodline (after all the blood powers recognize connections--being a duke is awesome, ruling a magic school or tower with blood powers from the former god of magic? MORE AWESOME!

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;429200Shouldn't break anything if they're personal instead of public. I'd just make the advancement conditions not rely on any external factors (like tithing or examinations), and have it be purely internal (skill levels, POW requirements, etc.).

Very awesome. I'm definitely going to have to explore this further. Over the New Year break I'm going to try to finish the core rules and delve into the Empires book in more detail. I haven't been this excited about a new project in awhile. I'll do my best Anglachel

I see no reason why RuneQuest wouldn't work with Birthright.

Maybe it'd steal some of BR's original feel in that it was like AT LAST getting that D&D game totally focused on the Stronghold and Fief that kept being alluded to in previous versions of the game without that part of the game being fully fleshed out, but that would be replaced by RuneQuest's own feel. So you'd take some thunder away from BR, but you'd give some back to it by switching to RQ. It'd be different, but I guess could very well be awesome in its own right.

Quote from: Benoist;429226I see no reason why RuneQuest wouldn't work with Birthright.

Maybe it'd steal some of BR's original feel in that it was like AT LAST getting that D&D game totally focused on the Stronghold and Fief that kept being alluded to in previous versions of the game without that part of the game being fully fleshed out, but that would be replaced by RuneQuest's own feel. So you'd take some thunder away from BR, but you'd give some back to it by switching to RQ. It'd be different, but I guess could very well be awesome in its own right.

What it does do for BR is give it the gritty feeling it always seemed it should have, along with the feeling that the mechanics for the BR-specific things weren't just tacked on. MRQII already has almost all the subsystems in place to cover the unique facets of BR. In fact, I was thinking last night while reading that the Bloodline derivations could be cults of the dead gods, with all scions of that derivation automatically belonging, with the runes from that deity, and then lists of sorcery and even divine spells as well as heroic abilities that those scions could choose from to use. Also, any blooded scion can have the capacity to study and use sorcerous grimoires on top of their bloodline cult's spells. Then, unblooded folks can study and use common magic, and join and use magic from divine cults of the living gods. Bloodtheft itself I'm still thinking about, but perhaps it could be used to steal POW dedicated to the bloodline cult, still have lots of reading to do of the MRQII rules.

Edit: Oh, and i was thinking scions could get a bloodline bonus to their POW depending on their bloodline strength, which could be one of the things increased through bloodtheft.

I'd be very happy to play RQII in Birthright. But I also would not want to be a ruler, just an adventurer.

So how horrible would it be to set up a special bloodline POW score? I need a mechanism that would allow POW or some other form of magical strength to be stolen through bloodtheft.