Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 09:22:25 AM

Quote from: ronwisegamgee on April 03, 2023, 09:44:12 PM
Greetings, folks.

At what point does a TTRPG with the majority of rules focused on its combat system stop being a TTRPG?

To ask from the reverse perspective, at what point does a skirmish game become a TTRPG?

What games labeled as TTRPGs would you label as skirmish games that pay lip-service to tabletop roleplaying?

For me?

I would say D&D 3.0 and 3.5.  because while you can use theater of the mind, the stats lean towards using maps and miniatures.

D&D 4 was difficult (not impossible) to play without miniatures.

And for a non D&D entry and a game I am a fan of:  Savage Worlds can trend in some ones to the needing of miniatures for combat.  Again theater of the mind is possible, but can be difficult.

Sorry to nitpick - are you implying that it is easier to play 4e without minis than 3e? Because I'd say the opposite. 

The grid in 3e is a represntation, 4e PCs move in literal "squares".

Not necessarily an answer to the original question, but lately I've been taking a look at the Mork Borg RPG and Forbidden Psalm Miniatures game, which I feel is a pretty good example of blurring the lines.  They share the same background and general mechanics, and most products released for one can be used for the other.   

Quote from: ronwisegamgee on April 03, 2023, 09:44:12 PM
Greetings, folks.

At what point does a TTRPG with the majority of rules focused on its combat system stop being a TTRPG?

When you stop running roleplaying adventures and campaigns in favor wargaming scenarios and campaigns.

The difference is not a matter of mechanics but of focus. You can grab any set of rules that are useful for resolving what players do as their character and use it to adjudicate the action in a roleplaying campaign.

Which leads to what is a roleplaying campaign?

It is situation where

• I, the referee, describe a setting
• You and the other describe what kind of character you want to play in that setting.
• I describe the initial circumstance that the character are in
• You describe what you want to do
• I describe the result and the new circumstances
• We repeated #4 and #5 for the duration of the campaign even it is just one session

What we do describe character and how I figure out how to describe the result is immaterial to making this work. With the caveat that using the rules of a wargame generally make this way more fun and easier to run for most folks. And for most folks makes this doable in the time they have for a hobby.

Examples
Melee/Wizards vs. The Fantasy Trip
Battletech vs. Mechwarrior.

The only thing that separates the above example is the focus of the product. For one half it is about playing a bunch of scenarios and campaign focusing on achieving a set of victory conditions. For the other half it about making running a roleplaying campaign easy and fun.