Just wondering, are the player characters in your games, defined by stuff other than what is on their character sheets?

Regards,
David R

Hmm, on a "more than a character sheet" tangent, has anyone else considered getting one of those key drives and using it to store their characters on so they can run off a new sheet if they need to, since most poeople have at least a cheap printer today?

Quote from: David RJust wondering, are the player characters in your games, defined by stuff other than what is on their character sheets?

There's two kinds of "what's on their character sheet." There's what the rules say should be there, and what the players write on there. And then after those two there's what's in the player's head or words which never gets written down.

I find that players usually write stuff on their character sheet which the rules don't require, and that they play stuff out which neither the rules require, nor is ever written on their character sheet.

The character sheet is often a guide to the character's capabilities and, in some cases, what makes the character tick.  That's where it stops, however, and most of the character resides in the players imagination rather than the sheet.

Quote from: Dominus NoxHmm, on a "more than a character sheet" tangent, has anyone else considered getting one of those key drives and using it to store their characters on so they can run off a new sheet if they need to, since most poeople have at least a cheap printer today?

Most of the gamers around here do that.  But I'm on a college campus, so computers and printers are more than common, they're ubiquitous.

The character sheet is the map of the character, not the character.

-clash

That's a good way to put it, flyingmice. And the map is not the territory.

Without getting all swinelike , I wouldn't want to play in or run a campaign ever again where all that the players cared about were the stats on their character sheets. I want to see some real roleplaying or it's not fun for me.

All these answers are interesting but what I am looking for is examples of characters who are defined not just by what is on their character sheets. Something you may have noticed either as a GM or Player.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RAll these answers are interesting but what I am looking for is examples of characters who are defined not just by what is on their character sheets. Something you may have noticed either as a GM or Player.

Regards,
David R

Well, some of the defining traits of my current character, Benin the Nimble, in a D&D game are his love of comfort and his cowardice unless given time to prepare.  Neither is on his sheet, the game for me would not be especially improved if they were on his sheet, but they are critical to the character and what makes him fun.

Benin is a mix of ambition, fear and a desire for a nice life.  None of that is written down anywhere.

Is that the kind of thing you mean?

Of course, in some games those would be beliefs or attitudes that were written down and had a mechanical effect on play, so the game played makes a difference too.  I tend to write down stuff that has mechanical effect or that I might otherwise forget, but that doesn't mean I write down what is important as what is important may not have mechanical effect and is unlikely to be forgotten.

Quote from: David RAll these answers are interesting but what I am looking for is examples of characters who are defined not just by what is on their character sheets. Something you may have noticed either as a GM or Player.

Regards,
David R

Sure! Too many to count. Let's try Klax's character in one of my In Harm's Way Napoleonic games. He's Captain Simon Laurence, USN. He's driven by deep seated anger at the English, who humiliated him in his first command years ago by pressing three men off his brig as he sailed down the Delaware Bay to sea just after fitting out. He continually looks at ways to snub and insult the English Navy, refusing to render passing honors, refusing to enter British held ports, and always scheming of ways to embarass the English. There's nothing like that on his character sheet. No "Hatred of British Navy:8" yet it is vital to understanding his character.

-clash

Quote from: BalbinusIs that the kind of thing you mean?

Exactly.

One of my players commented recently that the traits on her character sheet didn't give an accurate description of her character and when she begun listing the other stuff about her character on a separate piece of paper, she discovered that that's what the other players remembered most.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RExactly.

One of my players commented recently that the traits on her character sheet didn't give an accurate description of her character and when she begun listing the other stuff about her character on a separate piece of paper, she discovered that that's what the other players remembered most.

Regards,
David R

This is why I regard the notion, surprisingly widespread at times, that you can tell what a game is about by looking at what is represented mechanically not only incorrect, but actually slightly stupid.

Frequently the most important elements of play are not represented mechanically at all.  Whether that is a good thing or not really depends on personal taste.

Quite often I go into the game and (prior to actually playing the character) I haven't thought about the character too much beyond the numbers on the character sheet. I do that intentionally, because I want the character to emerge from playing it.

Usually after at least 1 session, there's stuff about that character that I've determined that would never fit on the sheet. And with every session, you add more stuff-- you get to "know" your character.So the benefit of long term play is even more concrete.

I have similar experiences to Balbinus, in other words.

The operative thing I'm talking about, is having a schtick.

This doesn't have to be a cartoony vaudevillian type thing. Balbinus's example of Benin is fairly illustrative.  All of my characters have something similar-a personality (which becomes more layered and complex and interesting the longer the character is played). And it doesn't fit on a character sheet.

I'd much rather have that then one of those systems that tries to quantify everything like having attributes such as "love for humanity: 2d6" or whatever.

Quote from: David ROne of my players commented recently that the traits on her character sheet didn't give an accurate description of her character and when she begun listing the other stuff about her character on a separate piece of paper, she discovered that that's what the other players remembered most.

There are also plenty of cases where what's written on the character sheet doesn't really capture the depth of a character.  For example, if you looked at the character sheet for the D&D character I recently played, the only real indication of a personality you'll see is the character's alignment even though the whole low-combat game was driven by complex character personalities.

In my experience, players who like to play their characters as if they were real people will create all sorts of personality details for their character, even if nothing on the character sheet reflects it.  This is why I don't really buy the idea that if it's not written on a character sheet, players won't do much with it.

Another point is that what is written on my sheet is not a good guide to where my interests lie, which is related to John's point.  You cannot reliably look at my sheet and say, ah, that's what Balbinus wants to see in play.

For example, Benin has skills in Calligraphy, Cartography, Clerking and Art.  That's because I see him as a bookish sort, not because I want clerking to come up in play.  I don't much care, to me it's a minor detail present for colour, it's not a flag.

Also, and this is related to Abyssal's point, often the schticks on which I hang a character develop in play, usually even.  I had no feel for Benin being a bit of a coward when I started, it just seemed funny to me so that's where I went.  I see part of play being discovering the character, finding out what works and what doesn't.  I prefer to do that in play rather than in chargen.