Quote from: Ladybird;508245WFRP1 pretty much already puts all of a player's essential information right in front of them, though - character sheets are incredibly readable (Most d100 games are, BRP is even better just because of those % signs). We've got four-page sheets with the last two being an explanation of what our skills do, and checkboxes (Along with a text box for skills on the front page); there's literally nothing else I need to know in order to play (It's a bit different for our wizzie, but even then, five minutes with Paint Shop Pro and the PDF will print him a sheet of all his spells, and he's good to go).

The big problems come for characters/games with lists of Talents, Feats, Spells, intricate mechanics, Disciplines, what-have-you that don't fit easily on a character sheet. You need some sort of quick-reference for that, just to stop play slowing down while things are looked up; I've got quick sheets for most types of action in Shadowrun 3 and 4 lying around, for example.

Oh, then I agree that for such mechanics, cards would be useful. For me though, it means that I'm just picking another mechanic for tonight's game . But if you must use such a mechanic/prefer to use it - then cards or any other sort of quick references are good idea. But I like my RPGs to have as little elements outside the basics and the occasional surprise gimmick, as possible.

Honestly - the amount of informations needed for 3e NPC/PC is the core reason why I never tried to GM a campaign in it.

On clarification, though - I love props, and I love making them. In fact, for my current Cthulhu campaign, I am actually writing a 100 pages long actual King in Yellow, based on the few "excerpts" from Chambers' work. Right now, I'm on page 60.

Quote from: Rincewind1;508247On clarification, though - I love props, and I love making them. In fact, for my current Cthulhu campaign, I am actually writing a 100 pages long actual King in Yellow, based on the few "excerpts" from Chambers' work. Right now, I'm on page 60.

Cool!

For Ars Magica, we have a Spell Book containing the various scrolls we've had donated to our library, and a small chest containing actual tokens for all of our vis. It's much more readable to go to the chest and see five tokens than have to ask for whoever's got the group sheet, and look through to see how much we've got; it also adds weight to the action, that simply crossing something off a sheet doesn't have.

For playing a SR4 mage who smoked, I turned up to games with a pretty convincing packet of fake cigarettes (Chocolate cigarettes). Given that you haven't been allowed to smoke in pubs here for years, some of the confused looks I got were priceless.

Quote from: Windjammer;508208I run his loyalty towards the PCs using the extant 4E system for artefacts. Ever noticed how great this subsystem is? 4E offers several great delightful surprises if you look beyond its vilified powers system. It vastly improved traps and diseases, and you can use the latter to model concussion hits.).

The broken arm as a disease thing is interesting. I've never seen the "artefacts" subsystem, that I can recall - have to have a look.

Quote from: Ladybird;508259Cool!

For Ars Magica, we have a Spell Book containing the various scrolls we've had donated to our library, and a small chest containing actual tokens for all of our vis. It's much more readable to go to the chest and see five tokens than have to ask for whoever's got the group sheet, and look through to see how much we've got; it also adds weight to the action, that simply crossing something off a sheet doesn't have.

For playing a SR4 mage who smoked, I turned up to games with a pretty convincing packet of fake cigarettes (Chocolate cigarettes). Given that you haven't been allowed to smoke in pubs here for years, some of the confused looks I got were priceless.

That's true - and that's why I want my "fiddly bits" to be special on the table. Not a necessity for each character . But that's really mechanical preference.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;508225...
D&D was literally designed as a miniatures wargame, as add-on rules for Chainmail, a miniatures wargame...

And yet, amazingly, Gygax himself did not use miniatures when running OD&D.  (In contrast to Arneson.)

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;508225...
But that's part of the game, and has been since the beginning of the hobby.

And so has been playing D&D without miniatures.

Quote from: Akrasia;508276And so has been playing D&D without miniatures.

Which I said.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;508225People didn't always play it that way. We didn't always pull out the miniatures.

This is a disagreement? Repeating every single thing I said, as if correcting me on it?

Couldn't you have just said "yes, everything you said is correct"?

Are you aware, though, that people have been playing the game without minis since the very beginning?

You know, this thread strikes me as being somewhat in bad taste.  That is, considering how pissed off people were at the triumphalism of the 4e-fanatics before the edition change announcement, and considering how some here seem to have been bothered by the SA guys posting things from this forum or others for the sheer purpose of mockery.

I think its a sign of being something of a "poor winner" in this case.  For my part, I obviously want the core of 5e to be something that works for the main fandom of D&D, something far far closer to the old school than what 4e was, but I hope that somehow they also manage to produce a game that most of the 4e fans would want to play too.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Aos;508286Are you aware, though, that people have been playing the game without minis since the very beginning?

Assuming you mean me, I have a hard time telling if this is a reasonable query or an attempt to troll.

Since one has mentioned the above referenced fact twice, in two different posts in this thread, as well as once in at least one other thread, it can safely be assumed that one is aware of the existence of said phenomenon.

Or has one been too convoluted in the language with which one has chosen to express himself?

Agreed. Not all of 4E was bad. Conceptually a lot of the classes like the Avenger and Warden were fun. Mechanically they stepped so far in the RPG Uncanny Valley for me to be obnoxious. But that didn't mean the concept of a holy assassin or nature powered shapeshifter warrior wasn't damn cool.

Quote from: RPGPundit;508290and considering how some here seem to have been bothered by the SA guys posting things from this forum or others for the sheer purpose of mockery.

Anyone really cares? I thought it was just a source of free amusement for most here.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;508291Assuming you mean me, I have a hard time telling if this is a reasonable query or an attempt to troll.

Since one has mentioned the above referenced fact twice, in two different posts in this thread, as well as once in at least one other thread, it can safely be assumed that one is aware of the existence of said phenomenon.

Or has one been too convoluted in the language with which one has chosen to express himself?

It was a joke, genius.

Quote from: Aos;508299It was a joke, genius.

Jokes??

On TEH INTERNET?!??!?!?!?!

PS - it wasn't a very good one, Aos. Your Humour skill needs more grinding, I am afraid.

Quote from: Aos;508299It was a joke, genius.

Well, that was the one possibility that never crossed my mind. Internet discussions being what they are an all.

I will apologize for the condescension, then.

EDIT: Though Rincewind was right. It wasn't a very good joke.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;508302Well, that was the one possibility that never crossed my mind. Internet discussions being what they are an all.

I will apologize for the condescension, then.

Apologies?

ON TEH INTERNET?!?!?!?!?!?

Alright, I'll stop now .