http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?611467-I-m-pretty-unhappy-with-WotC-at-the-moment

I'm pretty unhappy with WotC at the moment.

"Not for announcing a new edition, for whatever reasons people have read into it. I can totally understand ditching a product that doesn't sell, no matter how much I loved it, and liked where I thought the line was going. It's not the "McDonald's" comment stupidity, though that does irk me (and really, why the fuck would I be looking for Narnia? Santa Claus showing up to hand out magic items? That shit goes in Gamma World, you jags). It's not even the implied follow up to "An edition for all D&D fans" being "...except 4th".

It's that, when faced with a dilemma of losing a large part of the established base, the response is to hit the reset button. I get that WotC's job as a publisher isn't to be fearless when it comes to innovation, but looking at what isn't working (assuming that's the situation with 4th), the reaction shouldn't be to take two steps back. Especially when it means rewarding the people who did show you brand loyalty with disdain for their preferred game.

I don't really feel like rewarding WotC for this kind of thinking. If we're getting a new edition, I want a new game. I'm willing to admit that I could be totally wrong here, and that we could very well see an innovative new system that incoporates what D&D excels at. Everything coming from them is just high minded talk until the playtest rules come out, so it's too soon to make any judgements on the quality of the game. However, if it is a blatant reversion to an earlier edition, I'm just going to stop supporting the D&D brand.

Especially if it's 3.5 all over again. In that situation, I'll be switching to Pathfinder."

(Emphasis mine.)

This made me laugh.

"We loved your 4e, WotC. Why are you abandoning us? Wah wah hwahwah. If you make 5e like older editions, I'll leave you forever and play Pathfinder. Wah wah wah hwahwhaw."

Too bad. So sad.

O, the hilarity.

They're just butthurt because they spent the last few years lording the superiority of 4e over folks who didn't like it, now they're feeling abandoned by their beloved WotC.

Hm, let's see if I can do this part right: Quit your bitching, it's not like your 4e books will stop working just because WotC is not supporting the line anymore. Fuck off to your little weblogs and niche websites to console each other, you stuck-in-the-mud fossils, and let the Kewl Kidz move on to bigger and better things - not our fault that you can't handle innovation and cutting edge RPG rulesets. Wah, wah wah!

The funnier comments are form the ones who cant seem to separate the online tools from the physical books anymore its as if the books they own are somehow unreadable unless there's an online source to tell them how.

Quote from: Werekoala;508082They're just butthurt because they spent the last few years lording the superiority of 4e over folks who didn't like it, now they're feeling abandoned by their beloved WotC.

That's exactly the situation. Warms the cockles of my heart, it does.

Every edition has these guys, it takes the announcement of a new edition to bring them out though. FWiW 4 e fans will have to work hard to catch up to the reaction the 3e fans had at the announcement of 4e.

Oh! Oh! Let me try!

(Ahem)

The only reason why you love 4E is because of nostalgia. You are not really having any fun with 4E, you are just afraid of change.


How was that?

Meh, it'll be on and on and on and on, until 5e comes around, and they become Grog v2.

But what really makes me confused is the "I won't be able to support my favourite edition anymore with my money."

Ke?

I thought people bought RPGs because they liked to play them, not to "show the support". Every RPG I bought was to get something, not to show support.

Quote from: 1989;508078This made me laugh.

"We loved your 4e, WotC. Why are you abandoning us? Wah wah hwahwah. If you make 5e like older editions, I'll leave you forever and play Pathfinder. Wah wah wah hwahwhaw."

Too bad. So sad.

O, the hilarity.

Sorry, I don't get it. Other than the whining, it seems like a reasonable statement.

Reads to me like "We loved your 4e, WotC. Why are you abandoning us? Wah wah hwahwah. If you stop publishing products we like, we'll just have to go to your competitors!"

Of course, let's not forget that Pathfinder is very much like an older version of D&D. I bet Mr Face will feel very spited when it parts company with Mr Nose.

Notice that he says that he'll switch to Pathfinder (=3.5) if they make 5e like 3.5. Oh, the irony. The hate.

Quote from: Aos;508088Every edition has these guys, it takes the announcement of a new edition to bring them out though. FWiW 4 e fans will have to work hard to catch up to the reaction the 3e fans had at the announcement of 4e.

I dunno, I cannot think of reading of any 3.x fans who made suicidal gestures upon the announcement.

Quote from: jeff37923;508101I dunno, I cannot think of reading of any 3.x fans who made suicidal gestures upon the announcement.

I'm sure someone did, really,  and there was lots and lots of "they lied to us and fired me as a customer!" going around- which still makes me laugh.

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/08/23

blah blah blah [edition X] blah blah bah [edition X+1].

WotC is going to lose lots of 4e fans to 5e and not get many Pathfinder fans to join 5e and very few OSR fans to join 5e. Their only hope is that 5e draws in RPGers who aren't attached to any edition and new RPGers.

Unless WotC does some amazing advertising to grab noobs, I see 5e having less success than 4e in the long run regardless how good the system may be.

The weird thing, though:

If they really want to INCLUDE any 4e-isms...they might manage to alienate EVERYONE at once.

Quote from: Spinachcat;508110WotC is going to lose lots of 4e fans to 5e and not get many Pathfinder fans to join 5e and very few OSR fans to join 5e. Their only hope is that 5e draws in RPGers who aren't attached to any edition and new RPGers.

Unless WotC does some amazing advertising to grab noobs, I see 5e having less success than 4e in the long run regardless how good the system may be.

I don't know if 4e fans actually exist. I think people that play 4e simply lack discernment and taste, and will play whatever is put before them, praising it as new and awesome.

4e fans are just 3e fans that went to the next edition. Are you going to tell me that all those 1e/2e fans that hated 3e  were just waiting for something awesome like 4e to come along? No. So, then, where did the 4e fans come from?

Pathfinder fans are 4e haters who want a supported system. OSR fans are 3e/4e haters that want a supported system.

WotC is going to bring back a gridless combat system, which we haven't had since 2e. The use of a board/grid is the single biggest difference in play style between TSR D&D and WotC D&D. It's a verbal theatre of the imagination vs. a board game, moving little figures around in squares. Huge difference. Ask any non-RPGer to watch a group playing 2e and a group playing 4e, and they will tell you they are doing two totally unrelated activities -- two different games.

WotC will capture the 4e haters by letting them have the 3e playstyle in a supported system called D&D. WotC will capture the 3e/4e haters by giving them a basic, barebones, gridless system (I'm a prime example, here).

WotC is going to do well with 5e, better than with 4e at least. Sure, everyone will complain about this or that, but a system that allows multiple playstyles (as did earlier editions) will be more successful in the long run.

The guy on rpgnet is upset why? Maybe he actually wants a wargame and doesn't know it.

Like, this guys loves 4e so much that he won't play anything else? Yeah, so what were you playing for the last 30 years???

Will WotC capture the 4e lovers? 4e is an anomaly in the history of D&D. An abomination. The more you make 5e look like 4e, which has failed, the more 5e will fail.