Some of you must own this thing by now; so what is it: the D20 folks stealing the ideas of the White Wolf Swine and doing it right; or a D20 version of a WW Story-based game, that will satisfy no one?

RPGPundit

Inquiring minds want a full review!

I've only had time to glance through it, and to be honest it left me a little cold.

You folks should know by now I'm pretty much a 3.5 guy, though I'm enjoying Star Wars Saga quite a bit.  I'm also something of a Monte Cook fanboy, and have nothing but respect for Arcana Evolved and Ptolus.  So, I was looking forward to checking this book out.  With that said...

* The layout is kind of ugly and difficult on the eyes.  There are a lot of white-text-on-black pages, too, which bothers me.  The sections seem jumbled & the text is hard to follow at times.

* The crunch factor is extremely high.  I've been told by people who've purchased it that it's not that bad, but on first glance it seems to have a higher level of complexity than any other d20 product I could name.

* Each character 'class' is even more of a set of rules unto itself than in D&D.  The abilities are many & varied.

Now, these are all first impressions and I didn't get deep into the book.  For one thing, I was just sitting at a table in Borders and reading it.  For another, the aforementioned annoying layout encouraged me to put it down

-O

I don't really see the point of it.

Quote from: signoftheserpentI don't really see the point of it.

Had it came out a decade ago, I would have assumed it was designed for fellows like me who fancy goth chicks but loathe d10 pools.

The reactions to it I've read are mixed. Most d20 players are loving what he's done with the system, whilst the WW fans are outraged that it's not nWoD.  

It looks like an interesting system, but I'm not so sure about the post-apocalyptic setting. I'll probably flick through a copy should I come across it, but at the moment there's far too much stuff I'd rather buy instead (City of Brass, for instance).

Quote from: DrewThe reactions to it I've read are mixed. Most d20 players are loving what he's done with the system, whilst the WW fans are outraged that it's not nWoD.  

It looks like an interesting system, but I'm not so sure about the post-apocalyptic setting. I'll probably flick through a copy should I come across it, but at the moment there's far too much stuff I'd rather buy instead (City of Brass, for instance).

Post apocalyptic setting? WTF?

So if it isn't nwod, whats the setting?

Quote from: signoftheserpentPost apocalyptic setting? WTF?

According to the previews, a year ago Lovecraftian beings known as the Inconnu intruded into our reality in South Dakota, leaving behind an all-destroying "Conflagration" that's 300 miles in diameter. A mutant-spawning wasteland called "the Annihilation Zone" extends about a hundred miles further, and the whole area is under a military quarantine. That's basically the cause of all evil: before the Intrusion, the setting was exactly like our Earth, without any vampires or werewolves or mages. There doesn't seem to be any secret history in the game like there is in the other WoDs.

(Here is some linkage to those previews.)

It's not nearly as crunchy as Spycraft 2.0, but yeah it's more crunchy than pretty much any other OGL game I can think of offhand.  Personally I would have liked to see a lot more streamlining (Use Rope is still a skill... WTF?) -- it just doesn't feel polished to me.  That said, I'm still decently happy with the purchase although I agree that for the price tag they could have done a lot better visually.

I don't really dig the PA setting, but it's easy enough to just use the mechanics for your own d20 modern-supernatural setting.

KoOS

I just got done playing it tonight actually. It was a VERY fun time. I had two Demon and Two Mage players.

The setting I've created is a very Escape from New York style Los Angeles (Not Escape from LA, more gritty than the over the top campiness of ELA). The Nightmare Wave had spread a supernatural disease called "Angel Wings" through the city killing over 400,000 people in 12 days. The "disease" has stopped spreading as rapidly, but cases are still appearing keeping paranoia high in the area.

This shot LA's productivity through the basement floor. Shops, Malls and Hospitals left understaffed quickly became targets for the unscrupolous and desperate alike. Riots broke out, many stores have been looted and the majority of Los Angeles has become a desperate sprawl.


The US goverment dispatched a large force of Milatary soldiers to "quarantine" the area. Since the area is too dangerous (with warring tribes gangs, Nightmare spawned creatures, and god knows what else) to actually try to fix or inviestigate all they do is make sure no one gets in or out. Scouts and patrols are sent in in regular intervals strictly for tactical recon. Los Angeles is strictly looked upon as a homeland security risk.


The Magic system is awesome. I see how it's balanced in play. Mages can do ANYTHING...until they run out of components

I love how each "character type" is so versatile. You can build any character type to fill almost any niche (although healer is pretty much only accomplishable by the Mage, but a Demon can eventually).



I don't know...any specific questions about it?

Quote from: KrakaJakI don't know...any specific questions about it?

How are supernatural types implemented?  Is being a vampire/werewolf/mage/demon/whatever a class, a race, a template, or what?  How, for example, are a werewolf and a vampire mechanically distinguished from each other?

So really it's got next to nothing to do with the world of darkness.

Quote from: signoftheserpentSo really it's got next to nothing to do with the world of darkness.

It's a World of Darkness as "reimagined" by Monte Cook, rather than a straight d20 conversion of any earlier WoD: a whole new setting that's as different from oWoD and nWoD as they are from each other.

Quote from: hgjsHow are supernatural types implemented?  Is being a vampire/werewolf/mage/demon/whatever a class, a race, a template, or what?  How, for example, are a werewolf and a vampire mechanically distinguished from each other?

Vampires, Werewolves, Mages and Demon's are treated like classes, for the most part, they're called "Character Type" in this. You cannot Multiclass (or I guess I should say they're not designed to be).


Each character type has it's own significant special features, and special weaknesses. They all have their own Exclusive Feat lists called Disciplines, Rites, Cants, and Gnosis lists (except for Awakened, who only have access to the regular Feats list). Your character type determines you HD, Attack Bonus and Bonus Saves.

So they're treated like classes mechanicly, but their actually more like your race. Your "Character Focus" is more like your class (and is mechanically similar to your race). Your focus gives you +2 on a relevant stat and determines your "focus skills" (class skills). You can change you focus at every level, you lose the bonus to the previous stat and gain the new one, and your class skills change to your new focus rather than combine. Focus skills and Cross-Focus skills have the same cap of 6+ Character level.

Something I was very pleased with is how the charcters "feel" very differently mechanicaly. Demons, for example, which are perfect shapeshifters, can give themselves a +2 bonus to two different stats and then change those every day. Awakened gain a statistical advantage (more skill points, more starting attribute bonuses) but end up feeling very natural rather than supernatural. Mages need Components to remain a help to the group, and powerful magic burns through components so quick that mages suddenly become very careful what they use their Magic for "just in case".