Monte Cook Is an RPG Maoist

S'mon · September 13, 2019, 09:06:20 AM

Quote from: Rhedyn;1103786SKR was also great at messing up Pathfinder rules, so much so that I made it a point to ignore his rulings.

Kinda the Jeremy Crawford of Pathfinder?

S'mon · September 13, 2019, 09:08:43 AM

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1103784There is a lot wrong with the book in my my opinion. One issue with the book is by framing it as a consent issue, it is using language more associated with sexual abuse and assault than with a GM presenting content in a game that upsets people.

Yeah I agree. It is definitely seeing consent through the lens of sexual activity. But I haven't played/GM'd a game like that since the days of Yahoo mailing lists in the mid '90s (and that stuff was mostly, um, 'freeform'), and for the vast majority of tabletop play it's highly inappropriate.

I also noticed that the quotes from another source ("Your Best Game Ever") seemed considerably more extreme than most of the regular content. In particular the first 4 pages have a much milder tone, then the content gets more and more extreme until by the time of the Final Horror of the Consent Form on page 13 I was crying "Noooo! I don't want this!!"

Armchair Gamer · September 13, 2019, 09:22:54 AM

Quote from: S'mon;1103791I also noticed that the quotes from another source ("Your Best Game Ever") seemed considerably more extreme than most of the regular content. In particular the first 4 pages have a much milder tone, then the content gets more and more extreme until by the time of the Final Horror of the Consent Form on page 13 I was crying "Noooo! I don't want this!!"

"Your Best Game Ever" was by Monte Cook, while as I understand it, the original material in this pamphlet is by Reynolds and Germain.

Mor'du · September 13, 2019, 09:31:43 AM

Once again - they are mixing their B.S. into fantasy. I guess the best way to deal with it is laugh 'em off and then ignore the flaming rage that will soon follow. It's like a toddler who wants something at the market and throws tantrums. I just wonder if these sJws (once they get into the company) railroad all of the old employees into submission. Seems like Monty has to change his colours in order to keep his desk?.... I dunno, this stuff was never an issue before. I'm perplexed. it's fantasy an escape from the "real world" -they'd like to see us old timers out of their safe space methinks.

PencilBoy99 · September 13, 2019, 10:01:22 AM

Am I correct that it actually states that you can't ask someone to leave the group whose sensibilities don't agree with you? If I want to run CoC Horror and player X doesn't like that I'm not allowed to ever run that because he/she is part of my group now?

ArrozConLeche · September 13, 2019, 10:15:20 AM

Quote from: sureshot;1103777No just pretending to suddenly be woke to pander to a certain demographic in the gaming industry. While thinking no one will notice that they suddenly became woke. Really for nothing more than profit. Or fear of being ostracized as not being woke enough.

I don't even think anymore that it's pandering. I am convinced that this is who WOTC are. They infiltrated the hobby and the industry.

Armchair Gamer · September 13, 2019, 10:17:37 AM

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1103798I don't even think anymore that it's pandering. I am convinced that this is who WOTC are. They infiltrated the hobby and the industry.

Given the location, the demographics they hire from, the cultural trends, and the lack of any countervailing creed or loyalty to anchor them, why should we expect any differently?

Alexander Kalinowski · September 13, 2019, 10:40:15 AM

Is Monte Cook really such a great designer? Famous, sure, but... is there anything original about D&D 3E? And regarding d20 Cthulhu - where is it now? Has it gone anywhere, really?
Numenera is successful, alright, Invisible Sun raised huge funds. I am just not entirely sure about their respective design merits. Do they have any impact on the design of other games?
I guess I rate people like Stafford/Peterson, Greg Costikyan, Charrette/Hume/Dowd, Rick Priestley and later Fred Hicks and Vincent Baker higher.

Not saying he's a bad designer, I just feel unimpressed - unless I have overlooked important games.

S'mon · September 13, 2019, 10:45:45 AM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1103793"Your Best Game Ever" was by Monte Cook, while as I understand it, the original material in this pamphlet is by Reynolds and Germain.

So that supports Pundit's thesis that Monte is the Maoist!!

S'mon · September 13, 2019, 10:50:39 AM

Quote from: PencilBoy99;1103797Am I correct that it actually states that you can't ask someone to leave the group whose sensibilities don't agree with you? If I want to run CoC Horror and player X doesn't like that I'm not allowed to ever run that because he/she is part of my group now?

It says that people are always free to leave, but should never be threatened with expulsion.

What it does NOT do is talk about a player's obligation to the other people in the group not to ruin their fun (by eg stepping back from the table). Instead all obligations flow from group to individual, the individual has no obligations to the group. This seems likely to encourage Snowflake Escalation - in the Country of the Woke, the Most Easily Triggered Is King.

So, basically yes. The implication is that since the game table is a Safe Space for Snowflakes, you are stuck with them - Forever.

Rhedyn · September 13, 2019, 11:11:44 AM

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1103800Is Monte Cook really such a great designer? Famous, sure, but... is there anything original about D&D 3E? And regarding d20 Cthulhu - where is it now? Has it gone anywhere, really?
Numenera is successful, alright, Invisible Sun raised huge funds. I am just not entirely sure about their respective design merits. Do they have any impact on the design of other games?
I guess I rate people like Stafford/Peterson, Greg Costikyan, Charrette/Hume/Dowd, Rick Priestley and later Fred Hicks and Vincent Baker higher.

Not saying he's a bad designer, I just feel unimpressed - unless I have overlooked important games.

Monte Cook is the best in the hobby at fleshing out ideas.

I do not think Numenera (and by extension Cypher system, Invisible Sun, The Strange) are build off of good mechanical idea. In-fact I think the system for Numenera is built around a bad core mechanic. But the game itself is good and interesting, in-fact I do not see why Numenera wouldn't make for an excellent toolset for an OSR GM (aside from the lack of random table content generation).

These games are a little too fleshed out and a little too premium (heck even their carpet at Gencon was thicker than everyone else's), but that and their basic mechanical starting point being bad are the only real issues in an otherwise good system.

Steven Mitchell · September 13, 2019, 11:25:42 AM

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1103800Is Monte Cook really such a great designer? Famous, sure, but... is there anything original about D&D 3E? And regarding d20 Cthulhu - where is it now? Has it gone anywhere, really?
Numenera is successful, alright, Invisible Sun raised huge funds. I am just not entirely sure about their respective design merits. Do they have any impact on the design of other games?
I guess I rate people like Stafford/Peterson, Greg Costikyan, Charrette/Hume/Dowd, Rick Priestley and later Fred Hicks and Vincent Baker higher.

Not saying he's a bad designer, I just feel unimpressed - unless I have overlooked important games.

He is a better developer than designer. For example, Arcana Unearthed/Arcana Evolved doesn't really fix much with the 3E/3.5 mechanics. It tinkers around the edges, and many of those changes are slight improvements. But the overall product (especially Arcana Evolved) is a better, more consistent expression of 3E/3.5 than many of the alternatives.

Plus, he does work at it. That whole 99% perspiration, 1% talent thing isn't just a saying. And he used to be married to a very good editor.

S'mon · September 13, 2019, 11:26:16 AM

Quote from: S'mon;1103802It says that people are always free to leave, but should never be threatened with expulsion.

What it does NOT do is talk about a player's obligation to the other people in the group not to ruin their fun (by eg stepping back from the table). Instead all obligations flow from group to individual, the individual has no obligations to the group. This seems likely to encourage Snowflake Escalation - in the Country of the Woke, the Most Easily Triggered Is King.

So, basically yes. The implication is that since the game table is a Safe Space for Snowflakes, you are stuck with them - Forever.

My own view is, I GM in a pub, so anything in game should be appropriate to a pub environment. My pub actually bans swearing! But generally pubs have well established norms you are expected to abide by. They are only Safe Spaces in the sense that if you punch another punter you are likely to get Barred. If you punch a girl they'll call the police.

Stephen Tannhauser · September 13, 2019, 11:37:15 AM

Quote from: Snowman0147;1103739Can we all agree to not drag in real life politics into gaming at all? Can't we just do that? I guess not thanks to the SJWs.

I have no problem with a group putting real-life politics into their game if their members like it. I have no problem with somebody writing enthusiastic encomia on how this improved their games, or on how it can improve other games if adopted.

I have every objection in the world to someone claiming that if such politics aren't introduced to a game, then the activity is shallow at best or immoral at worst. (Note that this remains true regardless of whether I agree with the particular type of politics being demanded or not.)

Brendan · September 13, 2019, 11:38:14 AM

Quote from: S'mon;1103802It says that people are always free to leave, but should never be threatened with expulsion.

What it does NOT do is talk about a player's obligation to the other people in the group not to ruin their fun (by eg stepping back from the table). Instead all obligations flow from group to individual, the individual has no obligations to the group. This seems likely to encourage Snowflake Escalation - in the Country of the Woke, the Most Easily Triggered Is King.

Yes, exactly. All it takes is one narcissist player to completely derail the game and ruin it for everyone, and these mechanisms actually encourage and reward narcissistic behavior.