So I was pondering up a setting I had an idea for, one of the things I wanted to include was a large number of humanoid monsters as potential playable races. I am sure someone around here has done this before, any advice? System wise I was thinking Labyrinth Lord or Sword and Wizardry, I figured race as class kinda makes sense here but I also like the idea of having more options for those players.
Another thing I would be interested in hearing is how do you think having monstrous humanoids as part of society would change things? I already have some ideas on this but I would be curious to hear what others think.
AD&D 2e with Humanoids Handbook.
D&D 3e with Savage Species.
Most of the work is already done for you, and I've played an all orc campaign that was fantastically brutal and fun.
Different vibe, to be sure, but just as much potential for fun around the table.
Arcana Rising's rule is just to cap non-human levels based on how many HD they have.
So playing a 2HD sidhe means you can only level it to 10, but you get to keep the benefits of being a sidhe.
Something similar should be an easy drop in rule for most any similar B/X or OD&D type game.
I remember reading a post by Old Geezer where he (if my memory is correct) said monstrous races all started at the bottom in terms of power, and slowly worked their way up. This was in regards to a player wanting to play a balrog- think he just started off as a 1hd Balrog.
Just about any monster can serve as a playable race/class especially in a simple system like LL or S&W without template baggage.
Many humanoids have shaman and witchdoctor types so there is room to accomodate more than one class for players.
The main thing to consider that will make the situation unique is what kind of cultures and social structure do you want to give to the humanoids?
Try to get your hands on The Orcs of Thar. Playable humanoid monster races for BECMI D&D - orcs, goblins, trolls, etc.
Lots of racial rivalries. Probably violent ones.
Look at how humans in our world act, and all humans are the same race.
Quote from: Bill;686146Lots of racial rivalries. Probably violent ones.
Look at how humans in our world act, and all humans are the same race.
Thanks for all the input guys. Yeah I kinda pictured a lot of conflict with a few spots of tense of cohabitation caused by special circumstances.
Quote from: Arkansan;686177Thanks for all the input guys. Yeah I kinda pictured a lot of conflict with a few spots of tense of cohabitation caused by special circumstances.
Tense cohabitation....Slavery.
Not trying to paint a doom and gloom picture; perhaps in one world out there the Minotaurs don't find Gnomes to be delicious.
Yeah, I can't see slavery not existing in a world like that. I also pictured areas where groups lived side by side in bubbling cauldrons of tension. The setting I am envisioning is post apocolyptic so doom and gloom is fine.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bilharzia/pic800418_md.jpg)
RuneQuest (http://www.thedesignmechanism.com/) handles this pretty well as there's no distinction between "monsters" and players from a system mechanics point of view.
http://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/57795/trollpak
Quote from: noisms;686101Try to get your hands on The Orcs of Thar. Playable humanoid monster races for BECMI D&D - orcs, goblins, trolls, etc.
This was my first thought. The presentation is often comical/light hearted but the book is excellent at presenting levelled humanoids. Level 1 parties can be a mix of bugbears, kobolds and trolls and the game works just fine with everyone contributing.
Quote from: Monkey Boy;686209This was my first thought. The presentation is often comical/light hearted but the book is excellent at presenting levelled humanoids. Level 1 parties can be a mix of bugbears, kobolds and trolls and the game works just fine with everyone contributing.
Yeah, you have to have a lot of tolerance for gags about places called Trollhattan and latinate names like Bugberia Bugbera Vulgaris.... But the actual rules are good, and it helps to remember BECMI was really written for 12 year olds. ;)
RuneQuest does it really well. Each race has a set of backgrounds/professions, a number of usual cults, special abilities and so on. Then they are treated just like any other adventurer when rolling up.
What Bilharzia said -- remove the distinction of "monster" race from your mind. There are "races," and sentient goblins, orcs or minotaurs are no more or less a "race" as elves, dwarves or the like.
Dragon 141 has an article ("Hey, Wanna Play A Kobold") that is pretty concise and playable.
I've been running an ongoing game using Blood and Battle by Rob Griffin found here: http://bloodandbattle.blogspot.com/2013/04/for-swords-wizardry-appreciation-day-i.html and a few cues from the Humanoid Handbook.
The 3.x concept of 'Effective Character Level' is good, but the specific implementation was bad. 'Savage Species' is worse, if for no other reason than the anthropomorphic races can be horribly broken.
The concept is that a monster is roughly equivalent to a character of a particular level. An Ogre, for instance, has 4 HD, and in 3.x, they give it a Level Adjustment of +2, so an ogre without any class levels is treated as the equivalent of a 6th level character.
The problem is that usually the LA is too high for a given monster. A 6th level fighter is usually better than a 4 HD ogre; he has more hit points, a better attack bonus, etc. The disadvantage is that his Strength is usually lower. But a Fighter is a relatively weak class. Compare the Ogre to a 6th level Barbarian, and you'll see that the 6th level Barbarian is clearly superior.
I'd recommend generally aiming to start a monstrous character as equivalent to a character of equal HD - and if it turns out to be too powerful, just don't level up the monster when everyone else gains a level. Once the monster is 'balanced' you can add levels apace. Though keep in mind that outsiders, magical beasts, and dragons probably deserve an LA beyond their HD because each HD is at least as good as a PC class level...
As far as impact on the world, the acceptance of monstrous races doesn't have to be too extreme. There are lots of places where people are suspicious of obvious strangers, but as long as though strangers behave, they're unlikely to end up in too much trouble. Monstrous races will frequently be met with fear and distrust - but if they abide by the rules they can be tolerated.
Monsters are often stronger than standard races, so they'd be useful for physical labor. And if they're content to work hard for little more than meals, they're going to find people willing to employ them. It could be interesting to make them hated more for their willingness to accept low wages putting other (non-monstrous) laborers out of work. You'd have the ingredients for the same 'anti-immigrant' mentality that is fairly common in the US.
Whenever the idea of monster PCs came up it usually was handled in one of two ways.
1. Start the character off as normal, with the 6 stats according to monster type. This was usually for the starting group of monsters, or a "raised by humans/escaped from the zoo" kind of character.
2. Have the character start with the base monster HD, then have them become a class of same HD based on type of monster. This was usually for the "picked up in a dungeon" kind of character.
EL was one of the worst ideas 3e came up with, really asinine.
Quote from: Arkansan;686184Yeah, I can't see slavery not existing in a world like that. I also pictured areas where groups lived side by side in bubbling cauldrons of tension. The setting I am envisioning is post apocolyptic so doom and gloom is fine.
It doesn't have to be slavery.
I ran a 3.x game where the PCs came upon a village surrounded by orc tribes that had made a pact with one tribe. The pact bargained for village protection in exchange for food and shelter given, the village elder's daughter had agreed to wed the orc chief to seal the bargain. Now, there were still occassions of violence because the orcs were still orcs, but the village was safe from the surrounding marauder orc tribes, and half-orcs were beginning to show up as children.
Probably the only time I've ever looked at the shifting morality of a human-monstrous humanoid race situation, but it did make for some good roleplaying.
Right, I imagine there would be a decent variety of social interactions going on. Some better than others, I figure it will vary from region to region depending on the specific circumstances of each area.
Quote from: CRKrueger;687129EL was one of the worst ideas 3e came up with, really asinine.
What makes EL complicated is that it is never applied in isolation. So a person playing an Ogre will be picking a class that is as synergistic as possible. And ability score offsets can really amp up power. So it has to be balanced against the "best class choice" for a given race. Which makes it weak for every other option.
I much prefer the 4E monster race approach, or the B/X race as class approaches, and that is saying a lot.
Lol, in dnd, oh Got it,lol. In BRP and Tunnels and Trolls playing the other is permitted if not expected.
Philosphically it fascinated me why the races were so limited in dnd. Then is realized, being the other was bad, the outsider if not evil, was not trusted. And the mental hoops gms and players had to make to explore it or ignore it.
When I started exploring gaming, then I realized it was a dnd thing, even the hated Palladium had "monsters" as playable races.
What is so funny to me after forty years, the major fantasy rpg is still stuck in really funny ideas.
Quote from: jeff37923;687144It doesn't have to be slavery.
I ran a 3.x game where the PCs came upon a village surrounded by orc tribes that had made a pact with one tribe. The pact bargained for village protection in exchange for food and shelter given, the village elder's daughter had agreed to wed the orc chief to seal the bargain. Now, there were still occassions of violence because the orcs were still orcs, but the village was safe from the surrounding marauder orc tribes, and half-orcs were beginning to show up as children.
Probably the only time I've ever looked at the shifting morality of a human-monstrous humanoid race situation, but it did make for some good roleplaying.
I've had half-orc, half-elf and half-ogre communities in my campaigns before. It always seemed like a logical consequence of having creatures that can cross-breed living in close proximity.
Quote from: noisms;686101Try to get your hands on The Orcs of Thar. Playable humanoid monster races for BECMI D&D - orcs, goblins, trolls, etc.
Seconded. Not to mention the Hollow World and Princess Ark material, which both have a huge number of monster PC classes.