I'm just surfing the gaming forums and I'm seeing a lot of people who have recently been exposed to Mongoose Traveller extolling its virtues as a game. I like it, and am a Traveller whore, but I haven't seen this kind of positive response about a game without it being some kind of viral marketting scheme. Its nice, kind of odd, but nice.
I think there's been sort of a delayed response to Traveller--not a whole lot of buzz when it first came out, but I think a lot of cautious folks ended up finally picking it up, and were pleasantly surprised at the nice job Mongoose had done.
This is sort of what happened with me. See my old entry here (http://www.rpgblog2.com/2008/06/wherein-i-admit-my-mistakes-re-mongoose.html).
Quote from: jeff37923;276041I'm just surfing the gaming forums and I'm seeing a lot of people who have recently been exposed to Mongoose Traveller extolling its virtues as a game. I like it, and am a Traveller whore, but I haven't seen this kind of positive response about a game without it being some kind of viral marketting scheme. Its nice, kind of odd, but nice.
Heh. I consider it pretty decent in a lot of ways.
In a recent (current?) thread over at TBP, there were a few folks stating how broken MongT is. After a little digging, two of them were revealed to be, pretty much, CT zealots with arguments like "presenting the careers on the same page makes them superior and the fact that MongT doesn't do this is an unforgivable failing."
So far I am very pleased with the new version it cleans up the rules a bit and adds some needed flexibility to character generation, but I am not a CT grognard so I have no attachment to the older versions. I haven't purchased the High Guard rules yet so I do not know if or how they improved the ship building rules.
It's a combination of Traveller being a good product and folks being a little surprised by that. Mongoose has kind of a more miss than hit reputation.
I'm a Classic Traveller player/fan. I've been very impressed with Mongoose Traveller. It is "close enough" to Classic Traveller to be easily compatible with my CT stuff and most of the changes made in Mongoose Traveller seem to be for the better. I haven't seen High Guard yet, but if they do as well with High Guard as they have doing, I expect to like it.
Quote from: Caesar Slaad;276055Heh. I consider it pretty decent in a lot of ways.
In a recent (current?) thread over at TBP, there were a few folks stating how broken MongT is. After a little digging, two of them were revealed to be, pretty much, CT zealots with arguments like "presenting the careers on the same page makes them superior and the fact that MongT doesn't do this is an unforgivable failing."
What are some of the complaints about the system - the ones that seem legitimate, that is?
By the way, I know you were a fan of Traveller d20. How does it stack up now against Mongoose's version, play-wise?
Has there been any substantial 3pp support? I'm planning on releasing at least one adventure in 2009 through Tricky Owlbear.
Quote from: ColonelHardisson;276141What are some of the complaints about the system - the ones that seem legitimate, that is?
The artwork in the character creation section is horrible, I mean really bad. I understand that it is being changed in later printings (and the Pocket Traveller book) but I haven't seen the new artwork yet. I don't think it can be any worse.
I also can't say that
Traders & Gunboats is worth the money. I bought it and wish I hadn't. While the numbers in each design seem to make sense, the design philosophy behind each design does not always make sense*. Aesthetically, for my taste, the artwork is very hit or miss (the misses being an agony to look at) and the deckplans seem forced into the spaces created by the bad artwork**.
*A mine which costs MCr 15.23 to build and is less effective than a bomb-pumped laser warhead missile left to drift. A suicide drone which costs MCr 21.95 to build and is as effective as a launched torpedo which costs at least 100 times less. The modular skiff which doesn't use standard cutter modules. The space surveillance craft which is larger and costs more than a throwaway probe and has substandard sensors. I could go on....
**Asymmetric ship design only works if the ship appears balanced in volume or mass and the maneuver drive can thrust through the center of mass for the design (otherwise you are thrusting off-axis and tumbling).
The
Millenium Falcon got away with it because the starboard cockpit looks balanced by the portside sensor dish and the
Leonov gets away with it by having the big dorsal communications antennae balanced by the ventral airlock and probe/pod hanger. Both designs have the maneuver drives in the back thrusting through the center of mass.
I don't want to see another maneuver drive stuffed into an off-axis space just because it was an afterthought.
End of peevish rant.
Quote from: Napftor;276149Has there been any substantial 3pp support? I'm planning on releasing at least one adventure in 2009 through Tricky Owlbear.
Spica Publishing has Career Book One (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=58674&filters=0_0_10134)out, which is excellent. That's about it for now, Comstar Games/Avenger has One Crowded Hour (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=59405&filters=0_0_10134) and Golden Age Starships One: Fast Courier (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=59404&filters=0_0_10134) out which are compatible with
Mongoose Traveller even though they were not written for the game (the creative team which was writing Traveller material for Comstar Games/Avenger is now working directly with Mongoose Publishing).
Quote from: jeff37923;276151**Asymmetric ship design only works if the ship appears balanced in volume or mass and the maneuver drive can thrust through the center of mass for the design (otherwise you are thrusting off-axis and tumbling).
Reactionless Drive, gravity and inertia control, means that many impossible designs are now possible.
Quote from: estar;276156Reactionless Drive, gravity and inertia control, means that many impossible designs are now possible.
Granted, but it doesn't work aesthetically for me. ;)
Lemmee explain, even though we can build vehicles today with engines off-axis connected to the drive train by transmissions - it is inefficient because the amount of extra machinery required to mount the engine away from drive train increases the mass of the vehicle and consumes excess interior volume. So there is a common engineering design of having the engine as close as possible to the drive train while keeping it along the axis of motion. I believe that this would carry through into the future.
There is also maintenance to consider. If drives are stuffed into odd corners, then that makes them difficult to conduct maintenance on because parts of the machinery will be jammed against a bulkhead and hard to reach for simple repairs or prevention. Harder to access means harder to maintain.
Finally, while a drive is in operation then it will most likely be giving off noise of some kind. So if it is off-center then you will have a noise generated at that point that can interfere with the ship's sensors from electromagnetic masking or simple vibration. If that noise generator is along the center of mass and along an axis (preferably to stern), then it can be compensated for without interfering with bow pointed sensors.
Admittedly, this is all subjective and comes from my Navy years as an engineer. Will the far future be like those days? No. But I'd bet that similar situations will occur in the far future as have done in the past.
But you are ok with Psionics?
Quote from: jeff37923;276151The artwork in the character creation section is horrible, I mean really bad. I understand that it is being changed in later printings (and the Pocket Traveller book) but I haven't seen the new artwork yet. I don't think it can be any worse.
Mongoose is pretty hit-or-miss in general with the artwork in its books. The Lankhmar and Nehwon books were the absolute pits when it came to art, and kept me from buying them due to how off-putting it was. Almost as bad was the first RuneQuest book. It was some of the least inspiring art in a core RPG rulebook I've ever seen. I'd have been much more pleased with no art at all.
Quote from: RockViper;276169But you are ok with Psionics?
Depends on the setting for a lot, the OTU is pretty acceptable to me that way. I like how the psionics in
Traveller don't completely abandon the Laws of Physics and are not treated like magic spells.
Not trying to be sarcastic, but I'd have to say that since I haven't had any experience with psionics in real life, it is easier for me to suspend my disbelief about them. That's one of the common problems with science fiction over fantasy, its harder to create a suspension of disbelief with science fiction because you have the science part (as encountered in real life) to restrain you.
In general the book feels and read like classic TRAVELLER done well in a new hardback book.
The only glaring mistake or problem I saw were the ceckplans and ship illustration = they suck or rather STINK outright. The Marava just doesn't look like an Empress Marava should.
At GenCon I said as much to a Mongoose staffer/worker - he agreed with me that those deckplans could have been done much better artistically speaking.
IF I was to run a classic-style game using the MOngoose books - I'd have to use the SJG deckplans and GM it using the square sides of my back up copies.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Napftor;276149Has there been any substantial 3pp support? I'm planning on releasing at least one adventure in 2009 through Tricky Owlbear.
A company called (I believe) Spica put out a pretty cool little career book. Though I wish they could have thought of a better name than "Militant Religious" for one of their careers. Though the concept does have visions of Dune and Fremen (as well as Necromongers) dancing through my head.
Quote from: jeff37923;276155(the creative team which was writing Traveller material for Comstar Games/Avenger is now working directly with Mongoose Publishing).
This is not 100% correct, Avenger is still producing for Comstar but now we are publishing via Mongoose's Flaming Cobra.
Avenger is very much alive and kicking and we have a bunch of new products and some redone old ones in the pipeline.
We do work very closely with Mongoose on all things Traveller and have been known to playtest for them from time to time.
Rog.
Quote from: Roger Calver;276216This is not 100% correct, Avenger is still producing for Comstar but now we are publishing via Mongoose's Flaming Cobra.
Avenger is very much alive and kicking and we have a bunch of new products and some redone old ones in the pipeline.
We do work very closely with Mongoose on all things Traveller and have been known to playtest for them from time to time.
Rog.
Thank you for the correction. That's welcome news.
Glad to help.
Quote from: ColonelHardisson;276141What are some of the complaints about the system - the ones that seem legitimate, that is?
The most legitimate one I've heard is that the scouts' survival rolls are too tough and they get nothing in return for it. Every other complaint I've heard I consider pretty insubstantial.
Not related to the core game, but taste-wise, I think they needed to hire someone to write Mercenary with more of a bead on the Traveller "semi-realistic" feel. Stuff like mortars that shoot "energy balls" is way too soft SF, and a tag line mentioning "Lazguns" is way too 40k.
QuoteBy the way, I know you were a fan of Traveller d20. How does it stack up now against Mongoose's version, play-wise?
Well, to be fair, I haven't actually played MongT yet, and honestly, I haven't done all sections of the book due diligence yet.
But some immediate contrasts:
- Though the T20 player's guide makes T20 chargen easier, I still expect it to be easier in MongT.
- T20 gives the player more control over where they put their skills, within the class and level limitations provided by the career.
- T20 produces a bit more broadly competent characters. This is a bit more to my taste.
- I like events, relating characters, and skill packages in MongT, something it holds over both CT and T20.
- When it comes to modeling vehicle skills, T20 > MongT > CT to my taste. I like the idea that a good pilot has honed reflexes and skills that would be useful in a variety of situations once they understand the fundamentals. I like the way T20 models this with proficiencies better than the "level 0 general skill" thing in MongT, which in turn I like better than "serves as" skills in CT.
- MongT might be a bit less abusable when it comes to maxing out high level characters (though I've never seen this be a problem in my game; the oldest most skilled character who maxed out their terms in my T20 game was the DOCTOR, which I really don't have a problem with).
- I haven't inspected ship combat in MongT yet, but until I do, T20 will remain in my eyes the best small ship combat system out there. :cool:
Quote from: Caesar Slaad;276219Not related to the core game, but taste-wise, I think they needed to hire someone to write Mercenary with more of a bead on the Traveller "semi-realistic" feel. Stuff like mortars that shoot "energy balls" is way too soft SF, and a tag line mentioning "Lazguns" is way too 40k.
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Well the core books (main, Merc & High Guard) while they are intended to be of course for the OTU are also intended to be generic sci-fi game books, an example of this is the Babylon 5 sourcebook coming out soon.
As always with Traveller the grognards get steamed up with the minor details and go off on tangents claiming "canon" and how it most not be changed.
Merc in point, some people cliam that the artillery Battledress is to mecha and not fitting for Traveller, they may like to take a look at T5 someday soon and see the part about armour.
Rog.
I plan to buy Mongoose Traveller and the Babylon 5 suppliment (out now I believe), being a fan of both.
Can anyone tell me if the pocket version of Mongoose Traveller is missing anything significant from the big book?
According to the Mongoose forum, it contains all of the core rules. I don't own it, so I don't know for sure.
Quote from: Terrible Tim;277817According to the Mongoose forum, it contains all of the core rules. I don't own it, so I don't know for sure.
If it does contain everything, then it's a really good deal.
It has everything. It's just smaller.
The Pocket Edition has everything of substance* from the full-sized core rulebook, in the same number of pages. It accomplishes this by using an uncomfortably small font size (and I say that as someone with good eyesight and who uses small fonts as a matter of course; I can only imagine what someone who needs reading glasses would say!). It's a poor formatting choice IMO, but it does provide wonderful economy of size and price.
(* It did accidentally leave off an important table relating to starship fuel consumption, but this is very easily worked around in the short term and will be fixed in future printings.)
I think MongTrav is quite excellent, and coming from someone with my low opinion of Mongoose that's saying something.
KoOS
Quote from: RandallS;276132I'm a Classic Traveller player/fan. I've been very impressed with Mongoose Traveller. It is "close enough" to Classic Traveller to be easily compatible with my CT stuff and most of the changes made in Mongoose Traveller seem to be for the better. I haven't seen High Guard yet, but if they do as well with High Guard as they have doing, I expect to like it.
So I could take the expanded character generation from Mongoose Trav and plop it into my CT game? The group's decided they want me to run Traveller in a month or so, and the new stuff I've heard about character generation makes at least the Mongoose core book look mighty tempting.
If anyone interested missed it, I ran my first MongT game with my group, only one of which had any prior Traveller experience, and that one was negative:
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=13171
In short, it went well.