Bradford's logic is spurious at best when it comes to the viability of SF.

You know why?  Because fantasy is worse.  for one, it's fucking kid's stuff.  Look at your history.  Even now, after LotR got big and huge and made Peter Jackson one of the richest guys in Hollywood almost overnight, the stuff that's come to film since then has all been aimed squarely at the kiddoes.  

And fantasy TV?  What fantasy TV?  The occasional "modern fantasy" stuff makes it to the screen, but wizards and elves and orcs and all that shit?  No way.  

SF is a far better represented genre in the public eye.  You've got grown people who grew up with Star Trek in the 70s, and Star Wars in the 80s, Doctor Who for the Brits, and despite Brad's attempts to mislead the audience, BSG still made SciFi a ratings giant on the cable circuit.

I mean come on, Conan did OK in it's day, but it's hardly Star Wars.  Tolkien's books rode the hippy wave for a time in the 60s and early 70s but we all know the vast populace doesn't read anyway, so who cares?

And yet, D&D is, and has always been, the most popular roleplaying game on the planet, despite being the less well represented genre in the public eye.

Trying to argue that a roleplaying game shouldn't be popular because it's genre is a niche interest is about as idiotic as it gets.

I'm very interested in this new version, especially the idea of having one system that can be used for multiple SF settings, but Bradford makes good points.

For one thing, I've never met anyone under 30 besides myself who has any interest in Traveller (except myself)*, and only a few under 35.

I do think the game will sell well, though, since obviously there's a lot of interest still out there.  However, I don't know how many people will buy it who aren't existing fans.

*Yeah, I know they're out there.

Quote from: SettembriniI love EVERY Traveller version. Every single version had great supplements that covered ground uncovered before.

Actually, if you look at it that way, that's a fair point. It's just a tad hard to keep in mind when you look at those supplements which are pure shit.

Re. the popularity of scifi/sf literature vs. games, I think Aos has a point. One more common ground between Traveller and D&D: familiarity with their their bibliography didn't matter for their popularity. You could love the games without having read any of the novels. (I did, and I hadn't.)

But that was in the 70s/early 80s. It's a different culture now. Younger gamers expect implied settings that are different from back when. Whether printed as a novel or implied in a game: Asimov probably won't fly anymore with the new generation.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityBut that was in the 70s/early 80s. It's a different culture now. Younger gamers expect implied settings that are different from back when. Whether printed as a novel or implied in a game: Asimov probably won't fly anymore with the new generation.

Bullshit.
If there´s learning texts to show the user what to do with the material, they will make it fly.
People were taught to dig Dl, people were taught how to play 3.x and buy miniatures, so can people be shown how to play Trav.
You just must make an effort of actually reaching out, GURPS:T did that in some regards in the main book, but didn´t supply modules as learning texts.

1. What's "Dl"?

2. I don't understand how your point relates to mine.

Hate to say it, but I think J. Arcane is right on this one.

Average person that I talk to at the Mall, the store or at other places seems to give Science Fiction more respect than the Fantasy/Sword & Sorcery stuff.

 When I say Reff an RPG, they first thought is "Oh that elves and Dwarvs stuff", or "You mean that D&D stuff?"
 When I explain that the game involves a starship crew in the 57th century  some of these same people (who have never tried gaming) appear much more interested and say stuff along the lines of "I could get into that or play that. "

- Ed C.

Quote from: Pierce Inverarity1. What's "Dl"?

2. I don't understand how your point relates to mine.

1. Dragonlance
2. Culture is formed by the living. It´s not external.

Settembrini, the diff between a scifi and a fantasy RPG is that the former is far more prone to ageing, and not necessarily gracefully.

HAVING SAID THAT... I just learned who's going to write Mongoose Trav, and when I read that I realized I had been hoping it would be Greg Porter. Because he might have updated-yet-preserved Traveller in some ultracool way. He's a number cruncher AND a good writer AND has extensive Trav credentials.

But it's not Porter. It's Gareth Hanrahan.

http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showcreator&creatorid=1473

So, a d20/D&D dude. A solid designer, I guess. But no scifi experience whatsoever. If this were about writing a new T20 edition, that would be fine. But a whole new Traveller?

If the TSRD is not total rubbish, we can reverse-engineer all 36 degrees of travdom.

That´s why I´m psyched.
It sets it free.
Unleash, if you will.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityHAVING SAID THAT... I just learned who's going to write Mongoose Trav, and when I read that I realized I had been hoping it would be Greg Porter. Because he might have updated-yet-preserved Traveller in some ultracool way. He's a number cruncher AND a good writer AND has extensive Trav credentials.

But it's not Porter. It's Gareth Hanrahan.

Faith++.

He's one of the few mongoose author I usually expect decent work from.

QuoteSo, a d20/D&D dude. A solid designer, I guess. But no scifi experience whatsoever.

Last time I talked to him, he was working on B5. If that not scifi experience?

Quote from: Caesar SlaadFaith++.

He's one of the few mongoose author I usually expect decent work from.

He also did the Hawkmoon RPG. Not scifi, I know, but the brief passes I've given it seem to indicate it's good.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaYou got it in one.

Going a little further still, Mongoose seemed to be out to use the RQ OGL cover as many genres as possible before Chaosium could.  They have money and momentum on their side, and an apparent hard-on for giving every nut-punch possible to the Chaosium crew.  It's good that they've apparently gotten at least a little bored of this routine.

I think, at the end of the day, Mongoose care more about running a successful business than they do about aggressively competing with Chaosium.

If I were running Mongoose (I don't) and I wanted to take down Chaosium (I'm not convinced they do), I'd actually be worried that the one, single, killer punch I could throw which would nigh-certainly take them down - putting out an RPG to compete with Call of Cthulhu - would do more damage to my business than good. First off, Cthulhu et al are slipping into the public domain, so I couldn't stop Chaosium from producing it - at least in those countries where HPL's stories have entered the public domain. Secondly, the sheer eruption of bad feeling that would cause in the gaming community could be very damaging for Mongoose: CoC has a hell of a lot of love out there, I'd say more than pretty much any other game they've licensed, and if Mongoose tried to kill it they'd get it in the neck.

Killing Chaosium would be a waste of energy, at any rate, as they appear intent on doing themselves in.

Quote from: jeff37923Which isn't a science fiction series by any stretch of the imagination.

You're talking about culture.  That's why it's relevant.

Science fiction started out as a genre formed by short stories. So there's a huge amount of hard science fiction roleplaying that doesn't have much to do with a series of novels or movies. Most of it, at the moment, seems to be going in GURPS.