PS: On grounds of his timely reality check, Bradford wins teh rpg.net thread.

For the benefit of the banned, a quote:

QuoteTraveller?

Jesus fuck, folks!  Could there be a more fractured, fossilized and factious fanbase than that for Traveller?  Could there be a more aged, obfuscated and outmoded property that still has serious brand recognition--on par with Cyberpunk, RIFTS & Battletech--than Traveller?  Probably, but it might as well be that bad.  Of all the moribund or outright dead properties to pick, it was this one?  As it is, it's sufficiently well-served by the extant products.  Turning an old-and-busted game like this into the New Hotness that takes and holds mindshare in gamers, and especially in those who are now in their teens and weren't even conceived quite yet when GDW's last shot at the property fizzled, is something that has to be done to make it worthwhile- and I am skeptical about that being done.

I shall wait and see, but I disbelieve that this is either worth doing or can done right; the sort of science fiction that Traveller goes for isn't nearly as popular as it was in the 1970s- the stuff that sells is "skiffy" (sci-fi) at best, and space fantasy/opera most of the time.  Good luck, Mongoose.  You're going to need it, by the ton(ne).

Funny, both Firefly/Serenity and the New Battlestar Galactica are very popular science fiction properties and both of them have very Traveller feel.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityPS: On grounds of his timely reality check, Bradford wins teh rpg.net thread.

Indeed he does. Five out of five.

Quote from: jeff37923Funny, both Firefly/Serenity and the New Battlestar Galactica are very popular science fiction properties and both of them have very Traveller feel.

Not compared to the real powerhouse of popular culture: Law & Order.

BSG isn't as popular as you think it is.  Certainly not Firefly, despite all the fucking around Fox did to the show.  Both are cult classics, and no matter their quality they lack the necessary mainstream appeal required to be properly said as "popular".  In both cases, it's the blurring of genre lines.  A truly popular TV show knows its genre and sticks to it, and it also makes itself as familiar and normal as possible.  Science fiction is very hard to do right because the former conflicts with the latter; there's only so much weirdness that the audience will accept, and the closer you get to the mainstream the less that tolerance becomes, which gets into Uncanny Valley territory.

Furthermore, while Firefly quite fairly looks like Traveller, it sure as shit won't play as that game.  The appeal is the characters, not the milieu, as is the opposite with any successful RPG regardless of medium; milieu sells in RPGs because you are the character, but not so much in other entertainment forms because you're there for the drama--the story--and thus it's those specific characters that take and hold mindshare and thus sell it to the public.

In other words, Traveller's not going to sell to the Browncoats because that's not why Browncoats are Browncoats.  Same goes for the BSG fans, the Gundam fans, or any other fandom that isn't specifically gaming fandom- and even that isn't universal (Oh, FFVII, how you disappoint me at times.)

On SpaceQuest going on the back burner:

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaCan anyone else think of why this is actually a good thing?

Yes: it leaves an opening for Chaosium to cover SF with their big shiny BRP rerelease in November.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerNot compared to the real powerhouse of popular culture: Law & Order.

Which isn't a science fiction series by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't disagree with the main thrust of your argument, but I think you're a little skewed here-

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerI shall wait and see, but I disbelieve that this is either worth doing or can done right; the sort of science fiction that Traveller goes for isn't nearly as popular as it was in the 1970s- the stuff that sells is "skiffy" (sci-fi) at best, and space fantasy/opera most of the time. Good luck, Mongoose. You're going to need it, by the ton(ne).

I am old enough to remember the release of the LBBs ect...
Star Wars was the only science fiction popular in the mainstream in the late 1970's. Traveller was based on specific types of literary science fiction that have never really made any kind of real impact on any kind of mainstream, ever. The fan base for it has always been small. For instance, as a teen I was the only one in our group who had read any of the source material for CT.

I'm not actually disagreeing with you, though. There was no real markt in the 1970's and there is likely less of one now...

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerNot compared to the real powerhouse of popular culture: Law & Order.

Whoah there, Nellie! Talk about shifting the goalposts!

Times were, back in the seventies, I would drink in as much SF/SciFi (no, I don't distinguish, so please show Harlan to the door, thanks) as I could. But before Star Wars as for what was available in films and TV, you had old reruns. After Star Wars you had Star Wars and pale imitators.

But Star Wars planted a seed in the youth of that day that started to grow. By the time I went to college in the 90's, the Star Trek franchise had been re-launched and they were competing tooth and nail with the likes of Babylon 5 for a growing SF audience. There was actually a dedicated SF channel (as pathetic as it has become... hey, but at least we're better off now than they days of whatever that joker's name was that was basically a second rate medium who had his own SciFi channel show.)

Nope, all that still doesn't compare to the likes of Law & Order. But then, it never did compare to the presence of soap operas, talk shows, and cop shows in the larger public conscience. But to me, it's almost a golden age. I still have to fish around the book store to hit my SF tastes just right, but now and then, I can find entertainment SF that I enjoy. Compared to the 70s, we've come a long ways.

Quote from: AosI'm not actually disagreeing with you, though. There was no real markt in the 1970's and there is likely less of one now...

Except they sold hundreds of thousands of LBBs...

Quote from: WarthurExcept they sold hundreds of thousands of LBBs...

That was pretty much my point.  SF was NOT any more popular then than now, perhaps even less so, but Traveller still did well.
On the other hand, though, CT was one of only a few games in those days. Bradford seemed to be saying that it did well because science fiction was more popular then than it is now- which was definitely not the case.

Quote from: WarthurOn SpaceQuest going on the back burner:

Yes: it leaves an opening for Chaosium to cover SF with their big shiny BRP rerelease in November.

You got it in one.

Going a little further still, Mongoose seemed to be out to use the RQ OGL cover as many genres as possible before Chaosium could.  They have money and momentum on their side, and an apparent hard-on for giving every nut-punch possible to the Chaosium crew.  It's good that they've apparently gotten at least a little bored of this routine.

!i!

Here are the print run information

Basic Traveller              12 print runs 64,320 produced
Bacic Traveller revised     8              72,410
Book 4 Mercernary         23            103,849
Book 5 High Guard          17           100,638
Book 6 Scouts                6             25,584
Book 7 Merchant Prince    3             12,156
Book 8 Robots                 2             11,785
Book 0 Introduction          7             48,707
The Traveller Book           3              39,932
Deluxe Traveller               6              37,882
Starter Traveller              9              34,041

For the basic rules of Classic Traveller over 248,585 were produced in all forms.

You may say "But Rob.. that produced not sold" to that I say that why the print run information is included.

but i may say, "rob, i don't understand your numbers"

what does the scouts line say?  is that 625,584 or 6,025,584? those spaces in the numbering scheme has me all :confused:

i guess the underwhelmed for me could be the double-burn experience mentioned earlier (sorry, forget who coined it).  CT and then MT were, to me, wonderful tools for SF adventures.  the third imperium had great detail.  even the rebellion stuff, which i didn't care for, seemed well done to me.  then came the :mad:

TNE was burn one, with not only continuing the ick timeline that i never cared for, but also changing the system.

T4 was burn two.  i bought (rabidly) practically everything that came out.  i switched my campaigns over to the system, tweaking here and there.  i got most of the setting stuff, even though we had stayed in the 3I (back to the heady days of 1107).  and it just stopped.  

i'll just wait & see, like everyone else.  fingers crossed for minimal typos :keke:

I love EVERY Traveller version. Every single version had great supplements that covered ground uncovered before.
I just love it.

Except the pdf stuff, that sucked hard.

I bought golden age adventures or what´s it called. And they sucked big time.