Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerBSG isn't as popular as you think it is.  Certainly not Firefly, despite all the fucking around Fox did to the show.  Both are cult classics, and no matter their quality they lack the necessary mainstream appeal required to be properly said as "popular".

Yes, because Entertainment Weekly regularly gives cover stories to unpopular shows...

Though I do agree that no Traveller game is going to appeal to Browncoats.

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old SchoolYes, because Entertainment Weekly regularly gives cover stories to unpopular shows...

"Not as popular" isn't "unpopular"; relative popularity is the point.

QuoteThough I do agree that no Traveller game is going to appeal to Browncoats.

And likely for reasons beyond those which either you or I would think to be the case.

Halo is huge - supposed to have five million preorders for Halo 3.

Maybe they could stick some Battle Dress on the cover



and hope everyone mistakes it for the chief

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker"Not as popular" isn't "unpopular"; relative popularity is the point.

Who gives a fuck if BSG or Firefly are as popular as Law & Order?  Contrary to your assertion, it is a wholly irrelevant and spurious comparison since L&O is neither "skiffy" nor space fantasy/opera, which is the original comparison which you made and jeff37923 commented on.  Stop trying to move the fucking goalposts, Walker.

KoOS

Bradford's vision is so myopic that he needs a proctologist to check his perscription.

He works from the fundamental premise that quality = success = money.  Which is fine as far as it goes.  And even I'll concede that d20 isn't as shitty as second edition D&D.

But he can't see past it.  And he hates anything beyond his limited vision of the hobby.

What is popular is not automatically good, but it's not automatically bad, either. Producing games which are crap but popular should not be frowned on. That's because poular games bring more people into roleplaying as a whole. That means that you can then pick and choose who you'll game with.

So if you stop being a Swine about games, that helps me be a Swine about players

thanks for posting that first pic, erik.  it reminds me to look for that fiery-class escort deckplans i've got around here somewhere.  that's the one, right?

good point, too.  then mongoose can get the license to halo, do a RTT supplement on in, lure in some more to the hobby. . .

Quote from: David JohansenHe works from the fundamental premise that quality = success = money.  Which is fine as far as it goes.  And even I'll concede that d20 isn't as shitty as second edition D&D.

For anything that relies upon a network to make it function as intended, that is the proper definition.

Nonsense, internal consistancy, vision, and imagination are all far more important.  Indeed, I would be a fan of d20 if it managed to have any internal consistancy.  I actually believe there are too many systems out there and that open liscences are a good thing.  But without internal consistancy you don't have compatibility between products and very quickly it's worse than no OGL at all.

My single greatest complaint is the absence of a substructure that controls and directs the creation of spells, feats, skills, classes, items, and races.  The player's handbook doesn't even manage a reasonable degree of consistancy by itself and it only gets worse from there.

Internal consistancy is why I love RMSS and loathe RMC / II.

Saying that the success of a work is measured by it's financial output ignores the simple fact that the majority always desires stagnation and rigidity.  It rules out the need for competition to drive innovation.  It's not just conservative, it's myopic and short sighted.

Bollocks and Bullshit.

TRAVELLER is a fun universe to play around in - almost any version of it.

 Saying something isn't any good just because its popular - or disagreeing about what constitutes "popular" doesn't change the fact that people WILL buy the Mongoose version when it comes out.

 Hell, just last night at the Game Store two guys came in hoping to buy a Sci-Fi or Space Opera type setting RPG - and there wasn't really anything that I could suggest to them. A year from now after the MONGOOSE TRAVELLER is on the shelves - then I have that sale.

 At this point, TRAVELLER is kind of like the RPG version of the STAR TREK franchise - there are new versions of every 4 to 7 years and a new generation. Some future RPG players may look at a bargain booth of older games at a CON and say: "Hey look! Its my Dad's version of TRAVELLER - maybe we should check it out or buy it for him as a present...."

Some version of TRAVELLER will keep chugging along....


- Ed C.

I am reminded of just how much I love Traveller TNE.

It's a great gaming setting.

Good Guys: - Star Vikings

Bad Guys - Virus and TEDs

What the good guys do:- Go out in to the wilds and kill things and take its stuff.

Loads of cool potential - a shattered high tech society filled with insane AIs (Broken orbital elevators! Blown colony stations filled with millions of desicated corpses!) has wonderful dungeon possibilities.

I mean, I can understand why people were upset - when MJD wrote his 1248 update he trod on a few things I really loved about TNE, and went Hater Grognard on his ass for a while, but I still think its ace.  

I think it'd update really well.

Quote from: Erik BoielleI think it'd update really well.

And that is probably the one thing scaring the naysayers into acting like they are.

Quote from: jeff37923And that is probably the one thing scaring the naysayers into acting like they are.

Well, assuming mongoose is going to spam people with an enormous quantity of material, theres really no reason to worry.

I think they even want to make Traveller a sorta sci-fi brand (did I hear a new version of Starship Troopers was going to be Traveller branded?), so you could have different lines having no more to do with each other than various Final Fantay games.

--

But Star Viking, the new, improved reimagining of TNE could be ace - get some improved art in there and its good to go.

It's just sweet -totally provide an excuse for PCs to act like PCs and still be the good guys (if they want to).

see, that kind of obvious "good guy/bad guy" thing isn't traveller to me.  that sort of stark definition leans heavily into space opera stuff, IMO.

traveller provides setting, and all sides are gray, really.

Quote from: beebersee, that kind of obvious "good guy/bad guy" thing isn't traveller to me.  that sort of stark definition leans heavily into space opera stuff, IMO.

traveller provides setting, and all sides are gray, really.

 TRUE - but you can do "Good Guy/Bad Guy" stuff in the TRAVELLER setting if you want to.
...or do that WITH shades of gray.

 HeQ, some thought thats what "Firefly" was. The Hero, Mal shoots 3 different people in the back or with no warning - and yet we still consider him 'the Good Guy".

You could also do political maneuvering and intrigue of the DUNE variety in the TRAVELLER setting.

- Ed C.