Quote from: pawsplay on March 20, 2022, 07:54:07 PM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 20, 2022, 07:44:55 PM
  Personally, I'm not inclined to surrender a legitimate Catholic social doctrine term to those currently trying to abscond with it, which is why I prefer labels like 'hard progressive' or 'adherents of the nascent Antichurch.'

Where do I sign up to become an Adherent of the Nascent Antichurch? That sounds badass.

But you still haven't answered my question. Why is social justice important in an imaginary elf game?

Quote from: pawsplay on March 20, 2022, 07:36:07 PM
I'm still boggled by the number of people willing to state they are opposed to Social Justice.

The term "social justice" is poop with shiny paint on it.  It sounds pretty but has nothing to do with actual justice.

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 04:53:44 AM

Quote from: AtomicPope on March 21, 2022, 04:51:12 AM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 03:43:10 AM

Quote from: AtomicPope on March 21, 2022, 03:36:24 AM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 20, 2022, 07:36:07 PM
I'm still boggled by the number of people willing to state they are opposed to Social Justice.

You're also boggled by the number of people willing to state they are opposed to the Patriot Act.

I oppose the Patriot Act.

But... but... but... it's patriotic!  It's right there in the name!  How could anyone oppose something like patriotism or justice?!!111one

Patriotism, unlike justice or society, is not necessarily good. I oppose patriotism all the time.

I have the perfect solution: Rename the Patriot Act the Social Justice Act. That would automatically make it good.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 21, 2022, 07:29:32 AM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 20, 2022, 07:54:07 PM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 20, 2022, 07:44:55 PM
  Personally, I'm not inclined to surrender a legitimate Catholic social doctrine term to those currently trying to abscond with it, which is why I prefer labels like 'hard progressive' or 'adherents of the nascent Antichurch.'

Where do I sign up to become an Adherent of the Nascent Antichurch? That sounds badass.

But you still haven't answered my question. Why is social justice important in an imaginary elf game?

Same reason as any character motivation.
If u like alignment then it's what I think Chaotic Good is, and when over formalised Lawful Good and and when corrupted by despots, some lying version of lawful evil.
But it does matter what you mean of course. I am European, socialist and still find value in Marxism and Anarchism, whilst still a child of the Enlightenment.
If you think the motivation of characters in elf games are relevant then of course it's irrelevant.

Quote from: silencio789 on March 21, 2022, 10:18:47 AM
I am European, socialist and still find value in Marxism and Anarchism, whilst still a child of the Enlightenment.
If you think the motivation of characters in elf games are relevant then of course it's irrelevant.

Character motivations are important to games of course... But I fail to see what 'real world' social justice as put forward by woke scolds has to do with imaginary elf-games.

In the real world, social justice is vital, but as I said before it means different things to different people. AKA - my previous example of Pakistan.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 21, 2022, 10:33:54 AM

Quote from: silencio789 on March 21, 2022, 10:18:47 AM
I am European, socialist and still find value in Marxism and Anarchism, whilst still a child of the Enlightenment.
If you think the motivation of characters in elf games are relevant then of course it's irrelevant.

Character motivations are important to games of course... But I fail to see what 'real world' social justice as put forward by woke scolds has to do with imaginary elf-games.

This is a SF game, right? You can't imagine such a game addressing political issues or motivations?

Quote
In the real world, social justice is vital, but as I said before it means different things to different people. AKA - my previous example of Pakistan.

Yes, about that.. can you give me some examples of that?

Quote from: silencio789 on March 21, 2022, 11:32:36 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 21, 2022, 10:33:54 AM

Quote from: silencio789 on March 21, 2022, 10:18:47 AM
I am European, socialist and still find value in Marxism and Anarchism, whilst still a child of the Enlightenment.
If you think the motivation of characters in elf games are relevant then of course it's irrelevant.

Character motivations are important to games of course... But I fail to see what 'real world' social justice as put forward by woke scolds has to do with imaginary elf-games.

This is a SF game, right? You can't imagine such a game addressing political issues or motivations?

Quote
In the real world, social justice is vital, but as I said before it means different things to different people. AKA - my previous example of Pakistan.

Yes, about that.. can you give me some examples of that?

Examples... Um, just look at my previous post about Pakistan and how they deal with apostates? It's just a few posts up.

Well... I could of course use Social Justice in-game. But it becomes a very dubious concept when you try to marry it with the 'real world'. As it's only an elf-game and doesn't correlate too well.

For example, it would be seen as the just and righteous thing to do if the 'Knights Panther' (in WFRP) simply eliminated all the 'greenskins' babies and all! So, there you have it social justice in games. In fact, the genocide of all the greenskins would be seen as a very good thing, and not only that but your duty to attempt it.

And of course, if I was playing a Knights Panther in the Warhammer universe I would be cutting them pesky orcs to pieces babies and all.
But that's not necessarily how I'd behave in real life of course.

  Pakistan also has a culture with a variation of the Bacha Bazi (dancing boys) thing, where some young boys are treated a certain way.  Iran feel social justice is served best when stoning an accused female adulterer.  So that social justice is a funny thing. Generally conforms to societal norms where it is being pushed, and in some places, like the USA where EVERYONE is equal in the eyes of the law these days, is nothing past a bullshit verbal shield to hide what is usually venomous bullshit that tends to work solely for the purpose of eroding societal norms and "getting even" at the cost of a specific demographic.

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 12:00:09 PM
  Pakistan also has a culture with a variation of the Bacha Bazi (dancing boys) thing, where some young boys are treated a certain way.  Iran feel social justice is served best when stoning an accused female adulterer.  So that social justice is a funny thing. Generally conforms to societal norms where it is being pushed, and in some places, like the USA where EVERYONE is equal in the eyes of the law these days, is nothing past a bullshit verbal shield to hide what is usually venomous bullshit that tends to work solely for the purpose of eroding societal norms and "getting even" at the cost of a specific demographic.

This is it. In half the world it's a vile concept (especially in those Islamic countries).

And then its implementation is open to corruption in most Western counties.

And 'social justice' in games according to Woke Scolds is about censoring games and media. Fuck 'em...

There is no one running around in Pakistan stoning people and claiming it's "social justice."

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 12:31:49 PM
There is no one running around in Pakistan stoning people and claiming it's "social justice."

   No said anyone is stoning anyone in Pakistan.  Iran however.....  The point is social justice is going to be carried out according to societal norms and expectations.   In the USA, we take that to mean freedom and equal treatment for all.  Even here that has turned into equal outcome, not treatment.  I can not tell you what anyone stoning a lady in Iran is yelling as they do it, I can tell you I see the same look on their faces as people loudly proclaiming their intent to fight for social justice in the USA.  It tends to be the look of a fanatic.

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 12:31:49 PM
There is no one running around in Pakistan stoning people and claiming it's "social justice."

So when they kill apostates or perform 'honor' killings what do they call it?

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 12:34:58 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 12:31:49 PM
There is no one running around in Pakistan stoning people and claiming it's "social justice."

   No said anyone is stoning anyone in Pakistan.

However, it is technically 'legal' to carry out stoning as punishment.

'Great bunch of lads...

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 21, 2022, 12:41:51 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 12:34:58 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 12:31:49 PM
There is no one running around in Pakistan stoning people and claiming it's "social justice."

   No said anyone is stoning anyone in Pakistan.

However, it is technically 'legal' to carry out stoning as punishment.

'Great bunch of lads...

  I know, I have actually seen a taped stoning carried out in Iran though, so I know its not a technicality there.  I have an idea it gets done in pakistan as well, but to be honest, seeing one was enough that I do not care to look for another again.

  In any event steering back to the Pawsplay's question, is to me, and many Social Justice is not a thing, it is simply a vehicle for what looks to be mindless religious zeal for fanatics.  People using it in sentences I understand are usually (from a business perspective) attempting to toss out buzzwords they know are likely to act as a bit of a shield from some of those fanatics, as for now I will consider to be the case with Mongoose's new offering here.  I will reserve the judgement till there is a printed version of the product, as I have stated here a few times.