Quote from: jeff37923 on March 12, 2022, 08:48:26 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 08:35:03 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 12, 2022, 08:34:10 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 12, 2022, 06:45:07 PM
I think many here are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Say it's not so.

Yeah.... but it's a lot of fun doing it.

Maybe, but it gets tiring when some schmuck tries to manipulate your stance into supporting their own private bullshit.

Yeah... But I'm not trying to get anyone to support anything. I'm just disputing what he's saying... And that's only for me.

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 12, 2022, 08:48:26 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 08:35:03 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 12, 2022, 08:34:10 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 12, 2022, 06:45:07 PM
I think many here are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Say it's not so.

Yeah.... but it's a lot of fun doing it.

Maybe, but it gets tiring when some schmuck tries to manipulate your stance into supporting their own private bullshit.

If you find that tiring, then these forums must be absolutely exhausting for you.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 08:50:31 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 12, 2022, 08:48:26 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 08:35:03 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 12, 2022, 08:34:10 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 12, 2022, 06:45:07 PM
I think many here are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Say it's not so.

Yeah.... but it's a lot of fun doing it.

Maybe, but it gets tiring when some schmuck tries to manipulate your stance into supporting their own private bullshit.

Yeah... But I'm not trying to get anyone to support anything. I'm just disputing what he's saying... And that's only for me.

You aren't the OP. This thread looks like Shawn Driscoll got pissy because he got modded on the Mongoose Forums (five days ago!) and then tried to create some cross-forum drama here.

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 12, 2022, 08:57:20 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 08:50:31 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 12, 2022, 08:48:26 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 08:35:03 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 12, 2022, 08:34:10 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 12, 2022, 06:45:07 PM
I think many here are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Say it's not so.

Ah... I see.
Yeah.... but it's a lot of fun doing it.

Maybe, but it gets tiring when some schmuck tries to manipulate your stance into supporting their own private bullshit.

Yeah... But I'm not trying to get anyone to support anything. I'm just disputing what he's saying... And that's only for me.

You aren't the OP. This thread looks like Shawn Driscoll got pissy because he got modded on the Mongoose Forums (five days ago!) and then tried to create some cross-forum drama here.

Ah, I see.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 07:19:58 PM
I mean, the 1st Vampire the Masquerade has been using both (he/she) for decades. Were they not being inclusive enough then?

Well these days, inclusive means no white males.

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 12, 2022, 08:57:20 PM
You aren't the OP. This thread looks like Shawn Driscoll got pissy because he got modded on the Mongoose Forums (five days ago!) and then tried to create some cross-forum drama here.

Ha! You're still pissed that you weren't able to make a living as a professional Mongoose Traveller Referee at cons.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on March 12, 2022, 09:42:57 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 12, 2022, 08:57:20 PM
You aren't the OP. This thread looks like Shawn Driscoll got pissy because he got modded on the Mongoose Forums (five days ago!) and then tried to create some cross-forum drama here.

Ha! You're still pissed that you weren't able to make a living as a professional Mongoose Traveller Referee at cons.

Every time you lie and say this it makes me laugh.

Now, why don't you provide some proof of that lie of yours, huh? You haven't since you started saying it and you cannot now.

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 12, 2022, 06:45:07 PMI think many here are making a mountain out of a molehill. Even to the degree that some of these statements can be construed as "virtue signaling", they're pretty tame compared to most. And given that this isn't even an established IP being taken over to promote woke stuff it's like: Who cares?

They can do with their own original IP whatever they want. It's not like they're spitting on an existing fandom.

No, instead they're spitting on history and Western culture. Subversion and destruction of my people's history in any form is unacceptable.

And sure, this is a fairly minor thing, pretty tame compared to most. Doesn't matter. It crosses the line, and I won't abide that.

Letting "little things" slide is how we got to where we are today.

Yay. [/deadpan]

Not interested in this. Setting aside the potential for it being a forum drama pit, "Tough Chicks Who Kick Ass" has been done to death, and nothing about this RPG looks especially interesting or noteworthy.

Wake me if they post something worth talking about.

Quote from: GnomeWorks on March 12, 2022, 10:37:52 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 12, 2022, 06:45:07 PMI think many here are making a mountain out of a molehill. Even to the degree that some of these statements can be construed as "virtue signaling", they're pretty tame compared to most. And given that this isn't even an established IP being taken over to promote woke stuff it's like: Who cares?

They can do with their own original IP whatever they want. It's not like they're spitting on an existing fandom.

No, instead they're spitting on history and Western culture. Subversion and destruction of my people's history in any form is unacceptable.

And sure, this is a fairly minor thing, pretty tame compared to most. Doesn't matter. It crosses the line, and I won't abide that.

Letting "little things" slide is how we got to where we are today.

Dude, it's gonzo cyberpunk-fantasy with Nordic aesthetic just for the cool factor. It has fuck to do with history and they aren't crapping on Norse mythology any more than Marvel already did making Heimdall black, or any other company that has been slapping pseudo Nordic elements on everything since before I was born. Shield Maidens as depicted in fiction aren't even real and didn't exist in real life. They were made up by Hollywood, cuz gurl powah!

The only crapping Mongoose has done on Nordic culture is imply that (fictional) Shield Maidens can be trans (in a futuristic gonzo Cyberpunk setting, where trans people are probably not unheard of, on account of being a freaking transhumanist sci-fi genre) and someone adding some mention of "social justice" in a product description somewhere and a few other BS buzz words that would be completely innocuous to anyone not immersed in the culture war, which some people here decided to take the bait and take issue with.

Not that I disagree that it's SJW jargon with layers of hidden and double meaning. But someone inserting disingenuously divisive political BS into a work of fiction is not on its own crapping on anyone's culture.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 12, 2022, 10:49:22 PM
Yay. [/deadpan]

Not interested in this. Setting aside the potential for it being a forum drama pit, "Tough Chicks Who Kick Ass" has been done to death, and nothing about this RPG looks especially interesting or noteworthy.

Wake me if they post something worth talking about.

If they'll go after Tolkien's lore and Viking Lore. I'm guessing the Crusades will be next.

Cyber Trans-Shieldwahen Vikangz?

That's a no from me, dawg.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on March 12, 2022, 06:40:34 PM
Here was my post that was deleted by MongooseKat.

It was not deleted by MongooseKat, nor anyone working at Mongoose. We have a couple of volunteers on our forums who typically spend their time deleting spam posts, and it was one of them who did this.

I was concerned that it had happened, as the number of times we have actively deleted non-spam posts over twenty years can perhaps be counted on two hands and generally only because of threatening behaviour (once, as I recall) and genuinely offensive stuff on a complete twonkish level. Basically, we like to keep a very light touch.

So, I spoke to the moderator to find out what had happened. A complaint from another forum user had drawn attention to the post and the moderator judged your post to not be a serious question and instead be deliberate 'bait'. Now, this bit is important: The moderator actually likes your posts in general and thinks you play a decent Devil's Advocate. They just felt that doing this on a thread that was effectively a press release was Not Cool, and decided to delete it. They did say to me that if you had posted the same thing in another thread, they would likely have not touched it.

If it had been me getting to it first... well, I might not have been best pleased with it popping up on a PR piece but I may have left it (light touch). If it had been in another thread, I would certainly have skipped it by.

However, to answer the question, assuming it was serious... no, not all men are evil. Most men are not evil in this universe, and there are some distinctly nasty women as well.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 07:19:58 PM
Like I said. No RPGs have been deliberately unwelcoming. Why all the pronoun nonsense then? I mean, the 1st Vampire the Masquerade has been using both (he/she) for decades. Were they not being inclusive enough then?

I would say that switching between he/she is one way of doing it, they/them another. They/them sounds better/lighter to me, personally, and is a bit easier on the editorial level. I would not say one is more right, we have just chosen to go down one route rather than the other.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 07:19:58 PM
And I don't accept that this was not an effort to virtue signal on Mongoose's part. You've got to tonge the arse that feeds you am I right? $$$$$

Okay, I am going to try not to sound like a complete twonk here (!). With the combination of Traveller, Paranoia and Sea of Thieves, Mongoose is in the happy position that we do not have to chase the $$$ or tongue any, umm, bottoms. We produce the games we want (and do) play ourselves, and it is a happy coincidence that enough people like them sufficiently to support our company.

With Shield Maidens, we are not chasing a trend. We walked into the office one day and said 'wouldn't it be whizz-o-whizz if we wrote a game that did this?' Which is pretty much how we do most of our books.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 07:19:58 PM
I'm not blaming Mongoose Matt incidentally I'm sure he's a decent enough chap. He's just trying to sell us a product

Whoa, whoa, I am not trying to sell you anything I entered this thread, not because of the original post, but because someone made an incorrect statement about us (that we were taking government money to push an agenda). I just wanted to correct that, but I am happy enough to stick around and answer questions.

I have been lurking (and doing a few small posts) on these forums for a little while, and I figured Shield Maidens would not have a massive audience here - which is why we did not make any posts about it in the News and Adverts forum, as we have started to do with Traveller.

I do not expect to make a sale here. I just like talking about games

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on March 12, 2022, 09:37:44 PM
Well these days, inclusive means no white males.

It does not mean that to me, or anyone else at Mongoose. I cannot speak for anyone else.

If it is not obvious, I am a middle-aged, straight white male. I like to be included in things and have not found a massive amount of barriers stopping me from being so.

Quote from: MongooseMatt on March 13, 2022, 04:27:47 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on March 12, 2022, 06:40:34 PM
Here was my post that was deleted by MongooseKat.

It was not deleted by MongooseKat, nor anyone working at Mongoose. We have a couple of volunteers on our forums who typically spend their time deleting spam posts, and it was one of them who did this.

I was concerned that it had happened, as the number of times we have actively deleted non-spam posts over twenty years can perhaps be counted on two hands and generally only because of threatening behaviour (once, as I recall) and genuinely offensive stuff on a complete twonkish level. Basically, we like to keep a very light touch.

So, I spoke to the moderator to find out what had happened. A complaint from another forum user had drawn attention to the post and the moderator judged your post to not be a serious question and instead be deliberate 'bait'. Now, this bit is important: The moderator actually likes your posts in general and thinks you play a decent Devil's Advocate. They just felt that doing this on a thread that was effectively a press release was Not Cool, and decided to delete it. They did say to me that if you had posted the same thing in another thread, they would likely have not touched it.

If it had been me getting to it first... well, I might not have been best pleased with it popping up on a PR piece but I may have left it (light touch). If it had been in another thread, I would certainly have skipped it by.

However, to answer the question, assuming it was serious... no, not all men are evil. Most men are not evil in this universe, and there are some distinctly nasty women as well.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 07:19:58 PM
Like I said. No RPGs have been deliberately unwelcoming. Why all the pronoun nonsense then? I mean, the 1st Vampire the Masquerade has been using both (he/she) for decades. Were they not being inclusive enough then?

I would say that switching between he/she is one way of doing it, they/them another. They/them sounds better/lighter to me, personally, and is a bit easier on the editorial level. I would not say one is more right, we have just chosen to go down one route rather than the other.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 07:19:58 PM
And I don't accept that this was not an effort to virtue signal on Mongoose's part. You've got to tonge the arse that feeds you am I right? $$$$$

Okay, I am going to try not to sound like a complete twonk here (!). With the combination of Traveller, Paranoia and Sea of Thieves, Mongoose is in the happy position that we do not have to chase the $$$ or tongue any, umm, bottoms. We produce the games we want (and do) play ourselves, and it is a happy coincidence that enough people like them sufficiently to support our company.

With Shield Maidens, we are not chasing a trend. We walked into the office one day and said 'wouldn't it be whizz-o-whizz if we wrote a game that did this?' Which is pretty much how we do most of our books.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 12, 2022, 07:19:58 PM
I'm not blaming Mongoose Matt incidentally I'm sure he's a decent enough chap. He's just trying to sell us a product

Whoa, whoa, I am not trying to sell you anything I entered this thread, not because of the original post, but because someone made an incorrect statement about us (that we were taking government money to push an agenda). I just wanted to correct that, but I am happy enough to stick around and answer questions.

I have been lurking (and doing a few small posts) on these forums for a little while, and I figured Shield Maidens would not have a massive audience here - which is why we did not make any posts about it in the News and Adverts forum, as we have started to do with Traveller.

I do not expect to make a sale here. I just like talking about games

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on March 12, 2022, 09:37:44 PM
Well these days, inclusive means no white males.

It does not mean that to me, or anyone else at Mongoose. I cannot speak for anyone else.

If it is not obvious, I am a middle-aged, straight white male. I like to be included in things and have not found a massive amount of barriers stopping me from being so.

Hmm... I suspect you went the they/them route to tick all the boxes, as the TBP would like you to.

So, as Mongoose you're not chasing cash then? Or altering your products to make them more appealing - Or 'updating' as you call it? Riiiiiight....

I never said Shield Maidens was just created just to follow a trend. But not having them being born a woman and 'updating' the language is definitely done just to appeal to a certain type of RPGer.

I don't know anything about you (or mongoose) getting any government money. So I can't comment on that.

Well, you obviously don't like talking too much about games here, as you've only got just over thirty posts.

The upshot is, I personally don't believe you're here for the reasons you say you are. Other people are free to disagree of course.

Lastly, I will say the art for Sheildmaides is fantastic. Credit where credit is due.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 13, 2022, 08:21:37 AM
Hmm... I suspect you went the they/them route to tick all the boxes, as the TBP would like you to.

I am telling you we did not, and have explained the reasons why we did do this.

However, I am afraid I do not know who or what TBP is/are.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 13, 2022, 08:21:37 AM
Well, you obviously don't like talking too much about games here, as you've only got just over thirty posts.

Give me a chance, I only found out about this forum, what, two or three months-ish ago! Kept an eye on it most days to get a feel for things - and here I am!

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 13, 2022, 08:21:37 AM
The upshot is, I personally don't believe you're here for the reasons you say you are. Other people are free to disagree of course.

Okay... But here is the problem with that. Here, you are flat out calling me a liar - and I am not sure I have done anything against you to make you think that. I have tried to be as open and honest as I can, and you seem to be saying that it does not matter what I say to you, you will simply think I am lying.

I am not sure we can progress very far under those terms.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 13, 2022, 08:21:37 AM
Lastly, I will say the art for Sheildmaides is fantastic. Credit where credit is due.

I do appreciate that, thank you.