Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 01:45:36 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 21, 2022, 01:34:21 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 01:27:08 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 21, 2022, 01:24:17 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 12:57:23 PM
have ten times the intergenerational wealth of blacks, and continue to profit on land stolen from natives and wealth created by a recent slave-owning past.

Also, people are not guilty of the crimes of their parents or ancestors.

Or Great grand parents.  The shit SJ types push is the similar to being pissed my great grandfather killed your great grandfather, so you come to me and kill my son.   It is mostly injurious lash outs, and very little actual proactive measures to correct the things they know are causing a great number of the inequalities across demographic boundaries.

This is it... as a concept, it's a ridiculous claim and defies logic (and I say this as a leftie). But these 'scolds gotta pretend to do something even if it just clutching at straws.

They want a 'just' society, but they will do unjust things to get it. And just (pardon the pun) how just would their full-on commie society actually be? Hm..

  In the USA I was left of the middle in 2000.  Now I am probably damn near alt right.  I have not moved on social or political issues since 2000.

Actually, I know quite a few left-leaning people that have abandoned their politics and started to go full-on right-wing.

I haven't changed my own politics. I still lean left, but I don't allow the 'scolds any leeway because they are not left they are some weird autocratic commies.

Quote from: silencio789 on March 21, 2022, 02:36:30 PM
Are you saying that "social justice" means anything at all?
That it's simply whatever social group you belong to thinks is correct?
So it's meaningless and so is your criticism since you are criticizing a non existent idea?
Goodness, is this what you all think?

And with regards to Pakistan examples, I meant an example of an actual Pakistani person saying that social justice means X or Y..

That's not what I said.

Another nice dodge there too btw. lol

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 21, 2022, 02:38:54 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 01:45:36 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 21, 2022, 01:34:21 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 01:27:08 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 21, 2022, 01:24:17 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 12:57:23 PM
have ten times the intergenerational wealth of blacks, and continue to profit on land stolen from natives and wealth created by a recent slave-owning past.

Also, people are not guilty of the crimes of their parents or ancestors.

Or Great grand parents.  The shit SJ types push is the similar to being pissed my great grandfather killed your great grandfather, so you come to me and kill my son.   It is mostly injurious lash outs, and very little actual proactive measures to correct the things they know are causing a great number of the inequalities across demographic boundaries.

This is it... as a concept, it's a ridiculous claim and defies logic (and I say this as a leftie). But these 'scolds gotta pretend to do something even if it just clutching at straws.

They want a 'just' society, but they will do unjust things to get it. And just (pardon the pun) how just would their full-on commie society actually be? Hm..

  In the USA I was left of the middle in 2000.  Now I am probably damn near alt right.  I have not moved on social or political issues since 2000.

Actually, I know quite a few left-leaning people that have abandoned their politics and started to go full-on right-wing.

I haven't changed my own politics. I still lean left, but I don't allow the 'scolds any leeway because they are not left they are some weird autocratic commies.

  My point is, the window moved right past me.  I never took a step in any direction. Even the NO WARS stance I have almost always had is suddenly a right wing position in the USA.  It is clown world over here.

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 02:42:49 PM
It is clown world over here.

Yeah... Seems to be a weird place to live these days, sadly.

Quote from: pawsplay on March 20, 2022, 07:36:07 PM
I'm still boggled by the number of people willing to state they are opposed to Social Justice.

I find it hopeful. Spending any time actually investigating Social Justice instead of assuming it's a good thing because it has "justice" in the name, reveals it's a sham than enables terrible behavior.

Please stick to the topic as it relates to gaming!

On topic: I have ZERO problem with creating a Shield Maiden character in some sort of gonzo "not Shadowrun" cyberpunk fantasy setting with Nordic elements. In fact, most my characters tend to be along those lines. I just don't want people preaching their politics to me, or inserting divisive real life crap into the game as a low key attempt to "own" their political opponents or promote their political views in an irrelevant context.

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 22, 2022, 10:21:13 AM
On topic: I have ZERO problem with creating a Shield Maiden character in some sort of gonzo "not Shadowrun" cyberpunk fantasy setting with Nordic elements. In fact, most my characters tend to be along those lines. I just don't want people preaching their politics to me, or inserting divisive real life crap into the game as a low key attempt to "own" their political opponents or promote their political views in an irrelevant context.

   I think it is a bit odd to pigeon hole the titular hero class to a specific gender honestly.  I probably would not play it, and I guarantee my son will certainly not play it.  I am sure there will be good supporting reasons the rebellious Freya is leading the heroic charge to overthrow the evil empire that hates diversity and inclusion that is not politically charged.  It is just a non starter for the pigeon hole (I am sure they will boost the supporting cast as a matter of fact) on the gender, as I play with my son and nephew and neither of them are interested in any play being a girl character (their terminology). 

Personally, I'm not too bothered by the whole concept.

I mean, I'd happily play a shieldmaiden warrior kicking the bad guy's ass. I don't mind the restriction of sex per se given the game's context. Because one could apply those similar restrictions, to say a game where you played Spartans. As there could be no female warriors in such a game - even if it was a game set in the future. Assuming you wanted to be authentic.

But it's really hard for me to separate the game from the actual author (and given the title of this thread).

So for me, even if I liked the game, I won't be buying it because I don't want to support anyone who has this woke scold fallacy in their signature:

"Everybody is welcome at my table" is the "All Lives Matter" of the Tabletop RPG community.

Here's the link - see post no. 16 if you're interested.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/shield-maidens-rpg-announced-cyberpunk-vikings.894769/page-2

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 22, 2022, 11:13:26 AM
Personally, I'm not too bothered by the whole concept.

I mean, I'd happily play a shieldmaiden warrior kicking the bad guy's ass. I don't mind the restriction of sex per se given the game's context. Because one could apply those similar restrictions, to say a game where you played Spartans. As there could be no female warriors in such a game - even if it was a game set in the future. Assuming you wanted to be authentic.

But it's really hard for me to separate the game from the actual author (and given the title of this thread).

So for me, even if I liked the game, I won't be buying it because I don't want to support anyone who has this woke scold fallacy in their signature:

"Everybody is welcome at my table" is the "All Lives Matter" of the Tabletop RPG community.

Here's the link - see post no. 16 if you're interested.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/shield-maidens-rpg-announced-cyberpunk-vikings.894769/page-2

  Well, I wouldnt be playing a game where the (best)characters could only be male either.   So it is not the female pigeon hole for me (though, for 11 and 13 year old boys it is), it is the pigeon hole.

Quote from: oggsmash on March 22, 2022, 01:19:29 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 22, 2022, 11:13:26 AM
Personally, I'm not too bothered by the whole concept.

I mean, I'd happily play a shieldmaiden warrior kicking the bad guy's ass. I don't mind the restriction of sex per se given the game's context. Because one could apply those similar restrictions, to say a game where you played Spartans. As there could be no female warriors in such a game - even if it was a game set in the future. Assuming you wanted to be authentic.

But it's really hard for me to separate the game from the actual author (and given the title of this thread).

So for me, even if I liked the game, I won't be buying it because I don't want to support anyone who has this woke scold fallacy in their signature:

"Everybody is welcome at my table" is the "All Lives Matter" of the Tabletop RPG community.

Here's the link - see post no. 16 if you're interested.
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/shield-maidens-rpg-announced-cyberpunk-vikings.894769/page-2

  Well, I wouldnt be playing a game where the (best)characters could only be male either.   So it is not the female pigeon hole for me (though, for 11 and 13 year old boys it is), it is the pigeon hole.

It hasn't been established yet that the best characters in the game are Shield Maidens, only speculated about and assumed based on politics and the name of the game. I'm not exactly a fan of including one type of "best" character in a game either, of any type. Not just gender-specific, but any class, race, background or whatever, unless its a point-buy or similar system and you have to pay more for the more powerful origin.

But I have zero issue with gender-specific origins (of either gender), as long as they make sense.

Quote from: oggsmash on March 22, 2022, 01:19:29 PM
Well, I wouldnt be playing a game where the (best)characters could only be male either.   So it is not the female pigeon hole for me (though, for 11 and 13 year old boys it is), it is the pigeon hole.

Yeah... I was just making an example of how you could justify running a game where the focus of the PCs is on one particular sex.

Personally, I'd prefer to have a mix of the two. As long as there are no silly pointed-eared elfs or Tieflings I'm happy.

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 22, 2022, 01:25:40 PM
But I have zero issue with gender-specific origins (of either gender), as long as they make sense.

That's the key right there... If it fits logically within the game's concept then that's cool.

Quote from: oggsmash on March 22, 2022, 10:32:21 AM
I am sure there will be good supporting reasons the rebellious Freya is leading the heroic charge to overthrow the evil empire that hates diversity and inclusion that is not politically charged. 

I don't think so.

I'm currently writing scifi and one of the antagonists is an empire of (basically) space elves who hold extreme leftwing values based on logical scientific principles. As in, they will ban client states from using spears because that would drive the local megafauna to extinction, engage in the culling (i.e. genocide) of intelligent species if they think the population is too high for their home planet to support, and ban the consumption of anything other than the foul-tasting artificial nutrient slurry they provide because hunting and agriculture are incompatible with conservation efforts. This all makes perfect sense from the perspective of someone trying to prevent an intelligent species from destroying their environment. The problem is that this leads to an appalling quality of life. Sure, the elves provide food, housing, and medicine, but this comes at the cost of self-determination. Anyone who questions this is send to re-education camps where they are implanted with mind-control implants that keep them compliant. To add insult to injury, the elves themselves life in dyson spheres where they don't have to worry about sacrificing their own quality of life for the conservation efforts. They refuse to offer this to their client states because they don't believe other species are mature enough to use the tech responsibly. The main characters are self-congratulatory fanatical activists who see no problem with wholesale incinerating human colonies to prevent the spread of dangerous space bugs.

In order to stay balanced and avoid being labeled an istophobe, I've written humanity as an extreme cyberpunk dystopia in which evil corpos keep humanity enslaved for the sake of profit and use istaphobic propaganda to keep the populace divided. The main characters are space truckers and miners and other working class people just trying to make a living and avoid making ripples.

Now, if I didn't just tell you, would you have realized that my ideas are meant to be politically charged social commentary?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2022, 02:06:30 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on March 22, 2022, 10:32:21 AM
I am sure there will be good supporting reasons the rebellious Freya is leading the heroic charge to overthrow the evil empire that hates diversity and inclusion that is not politically charged. 

I don't think so.

I'm currently writing scifi and one of the antagonists is an empire of (basically) space elves who hold extreme leftwing values based on logical scientific principles. As in, they will ban client states from using spears because that would drive the local megafauna to extinction, engage in the culling (i.e. genocide) of intelligent species if they think the population is too high for their home planet to support, and ban the consumption of anything other than the foul-tasting artificial nutrient slurry they provide because hunting and agriculture are incompatible with conservation efforts. This all makes perfect sense from the perspective of someone trying to prevent an intelligent species from destroying their environment. The problem is that this leads to an appalling quality of life. Sure, the elves provide food, housing, and medicine, but this comes at the cost of self-determination. Anyone who questions this is send to re-education camps where they are implanted with mind-control implants that keep them compliant. To add insult to injury, the elves themselves life in dyson spheres where they don't have to worry about sacrificing their own quality of life for the conservation efforts. They refuse to offer this to their client states because they don't believe other species are mature enough to use the tech responsibly. The main characters are self-congratulatory fanatical activists who see no problem with wholesale incinerating human colonies to prevent the spread of dangerous space bugs.

In order to stay balanced and avoid being labeled an istophobe, I've written humanity as an extreme cyberpunk dystopia in which evil corpos keep humanity enslaved for the sake of profit and use istaphobic propaganda to keep the populace divided. The main characters are space truckers and miners and other working class people just trying to make a living and avoid making ripples.

Now, if I didn't just tell you, would you have realized that my ideas are meant to be politically charged social commentary?

  What can I say...I am literally bending over backwards to give mongoose the benefit of the doubt (which is based almost 100 percent on the nostalgia I feel for the Conan game they released years ago) before they release the game.