two things i'd like opinions on--

first, for running general adventure games set presently, what do you think are good starting skill point totals for CoC/BRP?  i guess i'd like slightly better than "competent" but not "heroic powerhouses" either.  i was going to go with 200 x EDU for "career" and 100 x INT for background/hobby, but maybe that's too low.

second, what other systems do this genre good?  keep in mind i prefer more realistic stuff, so no stunts/powerz or the like.  something not too "hollywood", you know?  maybe i should stick with traveller or an espionage-type system.

n.b. no d20 or it's variants.  not a fan of level-based systems either, but maybe with some convincing (i need to find my copy of "top secret")

I like GURPS and Unisystem for modern type stuff. Well Palladium stuff too. But thats probably and more than a little on the powerhouse/gonzo side of things.

that's true, i could just use low point total gurps (200?).  i have it but just end up using the books as general sourcebooks instead.  

toned-down ninjas & superspies may work, too.  :raise:

no unisystem experience, tho

Millennium´s end!

My Blood Games II is a horror game, but if you use the non-Path characters only and don't introduce Horror themes and monsters, it works really slick as a modern anything game. As a bonus, you can work in any time period from the renaissance to the modern day, as there are separate chargen sections for the different periods.

-clash

Quote from: SettembriniMillennium´s end!

again with the teutonic humor!

it did cross my mind, tho.  just seems a bit. . . fiddly?

Quote from: flyingmiceMy Blood Games II is a horror game, but if you use the non-Path characters only and don't introduce Horror themes and monsters, it works really slick as a modern anything game. As a bonus, you can work in any time period from the renaissance to the modern day, as there are separate chargen sections for the different periods.

-clash

you know, i *really* have to look at the starcluster 2 light that's sitting in my hard drive.  BG II uses the same or similar mechanics, yes?

Quote from: beeberyou know, i *really* have to look at the starcluster 2 light that's sitting in my hard drive.  BG II uses the same or similar mechanics, yes?

Actually, BG II uses a completely different task-resolution mechanic, but they are hot-swappable. SC 2 uses a percentile mechanic, and BG II uses d20 dice pools (roll skill rank+1 dice under stat, count successes) but the rest of the system is the same. If you prefer percentile, BG II will work fine with the percentiles. I've also got drop-in d20/4d6-4 roll-over and roll under and diceless task-resolution systems available. Well, the diceless is available, I'm still refining the others.

-clash

Quote from: beebersecond, what other systems do this genre good?  keep in mind i prefer more realistic stuff, so no stunts/powerz or the like.  something not too "hollywood", you know?  maybe i should stick with traveller or an espionage-type system.

n.b. no d20 or it's variants.  not a fan of level-based systems either, but maybe with some convincing (i need to find my copy of "top secret")

Spycraft 2.0 is my modern toolkit of choice. But it is a d20 variant. Before I waste my time providing you with "some convincing", what specifically bothers you about level based? It could be that SC 2.0 doesn't have that property.

i think it's a knee-jerk reaction of mine.  as long as it doesn't have hit point or the like inflation, or uniformity of advancement (go up a level, all skills go up x points) i guess i could be convinced of its merits.  

sett's thread on the new SW also ticked me off d20 (not spycraft, i know).  the giving "monster" stats to the star destroyer?  just stupid IMO.  as long as spycraft doesn't fall into that pit, maybe i can grow to like it?  what does it do well?

Quote from: beeberi think it's a knee-jerk reaction of mine.  as long as it doesn't have hit point or the like inflation, or uniformity of advancement (go up a level, all skills go up x points) i guess i could be convinced of its merits.  

sett's thread on the new SW also ticked me off d20 (not spycraft, i know).  the giving "monster" stats to the star destroyer?  just stupid IMO.  as long as spycraft doesn't fall into that pit, maybe i can grow to like it?  what does it do well?

wedge shaped pit fiend... coff.

Well, the fellow over on RPGnet had an objection that was easier to address. So as to your first objection... it doesn't have hit points per se, but it does have vitality points, which serve a very similar purpose, and wound points, which don't scale. For most lethal attacks, generally you have to plow through vitality before getting wound points, but critical hits pretty much ignore vitality.

Of course, if you want things grittier, you need only pick the right Campaign Quality. Campaign Qualities are like built-in house rules you can cherry pick from to change the tenor of your game. If you want characters to have their vitality scale slower, you pick the Fragile quality. Critical hits become easier and nastier with the Gritty quality, and they become much more prevalent (i.e., no longer limited to special characters) by apply the Bloodbath quality.

Your second objection... no, star destroyers would not be wedge shaped pit fiends. NPCs and objects behave somewhat differently when you hurt them; vehicles generally fall under the object rules. Vehicles don't have wound and vitality points. Instead they make damage saves when they take damage. When large vehicles take damage, they start losing capabilities... weapons, speed, crew... up to a certain limit, whereupon it becomes broken and inoperable. ("Standard" NPCs also use damage saves, but unlike objects, they accumulate damage and each successive hit is more likely to render them hors d'Combat.)

What's it good at? Given the flexibility of campaign qualities, I use it for pretty much any modern gaming genre except urban fantasy or the like... it doesn't have a whole lot of support for magic yet.

Its particular strengths as a modern RPG, I think, are
- the Dramatic Conflicts, provide for tense non-combat conflicts: chases, interrogations, manhunts, hacking, seduction, etc.
- the Campaign Qualities, already mentioned, give the GM a great tool to adapt to a variety of different moods.
- NPC tracking -- NPCs operate by a simplified system. They do not have classes or levels, and the standard NPCs often don't have Vitality and Wound points. The system is flexible, speeds up design time, and automatically scales the NPC by level of the threat.

It's a crunchy game, to be sure. It lacks all the details associated with spells in D&D, but the authors spend that detail in other places. Some of this detail you can cut out if you don't need it (I don't play with fluid initiative or result caps).

Quote from: beebertoned-down ninjas & superspies may work, too.  :raise:

Ninjas and Super Spies is what I'm using for my vietnam campaign. I restricted the characters class choices to mercenary (excluding the cyborg soldier option) as I wanted them to be military types from the get.

well CS, you've convinced me to take a look at spycraft!  now to find an inexpensive copy on ebay. . . .

Quote from: beeberwell CS, you've convinced me to take a look at spycraft!  now to find an inexpensive copy on ebay. . . .

Cool. I certainly hope it works out for you. :cool:

Quote from: beeberwell CS, you've convinced me to take a look at spycraft!  now to find an inexpensive copy on ebay. . . .

I got Spycraft because CS was going on and on about it. It's a pretty interesting system and a lot easier to manage than I was led to believe. It will probably be my default system for most thriller/spy games.

Regards,
David R