Quote from: paris80;317953Never played a MMO, and I wouldn't (go about it).

Still, I can trust forums to give me a complete, unbiased picture of course. So, with that in mind...

You'd need lots of levels, and lots of level-appropriate gear around. Mostly level-appropriate monsters to kill, in the somewhat sandboxy campaign world. Shops to buy and sell weapons, armour and magic items. Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Spirit (or whatever; something for powers and mana) and Charisma (for buying and selling, I assume; maybe it affects "luck" somehow too). HP, Mana, Fatigue(?). Tank, DPS, Healer, CC, Buffer; maybe hybrids as well. I guess that respawning thing could simply be due to certain areas containing rifts/portals/something similar. Pay money per month/week/session for the premises and/or GM. Keep track of the "world" via some kind of network (e.g., RPGA?) Um, that's all I got. Looks a lot like D&D actually, but twisted into a peculiar shape. So you could start with D&D as a base, and go from there. I mean, that's what they did anyway, right?

OK, yes, I cheated and went to Wikipedia. This MMO shit is seriously weird.

It is also seriously boring. I'd rather put my head through a wall than play an MMO. I feel like MMO players should go back to playing chess in yahoo chat and save themselves the monthly fee.

Yawn.  More commentary from people who likely have never actually played an MMO, or are basing their entire opinion on some shit Korean game they played 10 years ago.

12 million people aren't playing Warcraft because it's "seriously boring".  

And OHT, I think the key is probably just better gear systems (more stuff with stat bonuses and the like), and understanding WoW class design.  Each class in WoW has it's own unique mechanic, that in some cases can play out almost like it's own little minigame.  You need to make sure each class has it's role, and each class has it's own fun things to do that feel very different from what other classes do.  

D&D 3 doesn't do a terrible job of it, but it could probably be more streamlined to provide the right experience.

World wise though, I'd go sandbox, totally, like old UO, or at least semi-sandbox like WoW.  Part of the fun of an MMO is being able to totally make your own pace and goals, and there's always something different you could be doing.  Also, contrary to popular belief, story and MMO are not mutually exclusive terms.  WoW, especially in the new Lich King expansion, has some incredible story lines in it, if a bit awkwardly executed at times, but the nice thing is that you can generally take each part at your leisure.  Not to say that's the only one that has it's own story, shit even EQ technically had a fairly involved plot and backstory back in the day.

I played WoW, briefly. It is boring.

Quote from: greylond;318004I played WoW, briefly. It is boring.

I bet you hate D&D too.

I think JA hit on one important thing about the MMORPG (in this case I am thinking about WoW) - each class is unique, offering up its strengths.

These strengths become evident when players work together in instances (dungeons) and raids. In fact, players must work together to succeed. So, success hinges on team work, and good team work is unavoidable to succeed.

Another very important element of the MMORPG (and, again, I am thinking about WoW) is gear. The equipment that a character wears and uses plays a significant part in his/her ability to succeed.

MMORPGs (WoW is still the example here) are also very combat focused. Most of the quests are about killing things and taking their stuff, and the dungeons and raids certainly are.      

Those are some of my observations.

Well, let's see...

Every player has a permanent Resurrection spell on them, so death is meaningless and everyone is immortal.

Same with every monster in the game.

The uncivilized areas of the world are populated with immortal monsters who just sort of wander back and forth. So create some random monster tables with a 100% chance of encounter whenever you so much as step outside the city limits.

Whenever the PCs complete an epic, world-saving quest, they will have to wait in line behind the other group of guys who just killed the same dire threat to the world.

All members of the same "faction" have some sort of permanent mind-control preventing them from attacking anyone who's on their "side," and these sides are clearly delineated.

However, beyond this arbitrary division, morality doesn't actually exist. Players will do anything and everything for money no matter who they have to slaughter. (So not much of a change from regular tabletop roleplaying, nyuk nyuk.)

"Banks" are actually massive storage units that will hold anything for you for no charge, including stacks of meat, furs, rare eggs... so they either have magical refrigeration units back there, or smell terrible.

No one but your party is motivated to do so much as get out of bed. Save my son. Find me some berries. Fetch me my stick which I dropped forty yards away. Restore the honor of my family and wreak vengeance on those who have sullied my good name. Nah, I'm really busy here, you do it.

For the most part, nothing anyone does changes anything about the world. Oh, you say you wiped out the Iron Slavers? Sorry, they're back, because none of them can be killed. But then again, they can't really do much but wander back and forth, so we're safe.

All in good fun, I like WoW and played it for a number of years.

Quote from: ticopelp;318024Well, let's see...

Every player has a permanent Resurrection spell on them, so death is meaningless and everyone is immortal.

Same with every monster in the game.

The uncivilized areas of the world are populated with immortal monsters who just sort of wander back and forth. So create some random monster tables with a 100% chance of encounter whenever you so much as step outside the city limits.

Whenever the PCs complete an epic, world-saving quest, they will have to wait in line behind the other group of guys who just killed the same dire threat to the world.

All members of the same "faction" have some sort of permanent mind-control preventing them from attacking anyone who's on their "side," and these sides are clearly delineated.

However, beyond this arbitrary division, morality doesn't actually exist. Players will do anything and everything for money no matter who they have to slaughter. (So not much of a change from regular tabletop roleplaying, nyuk nyuk.)

"Banks" are actually massive storage units that will hold anything for you for no charge, including stacks of meat, furs, rare eggs... so they either have magical refrigeration units back there, or smell terrible.

No one but your party is motivated to do so much as get out of bed. Save my son. Find me some berries. Fetch me my stick which I dropped forty yards away. Restore the honor of my family and wreak vengeance on those who have sullied my good name. Nah, I'm really busy here, you do it.

For the most part, nothing anyone does changes anything about the world. Oh, you say you wiped out the Iron Slavers? Sorry, they're back, because none of them can be killed. But then again, they can't really do much but wander back and forth, so we're safe.

All in good fun, I like WoW and played it for a number of years.

This is exactly like MMOs.
But lets add....

i) You can't take anything from a Player you kill or from an ally that has been killed.
ii) A creature may attack you with a double bladed axe but that does not mean it actually has to have an axe or a wepon of any description at all.
iii) as Monsters do their walk back and forth thing the best way to find out how to get past them is to try it a few tiems die and then come back and do it again.
iv) Pets....
v) It takes exactly the same number of hits for a 10th level fighterer to kill a 10th level critter that it does for a 40th level fighter to kill a 40th level critter

MMOs are like cute blonde chicks. They are great to look at, fun to jump into the first few time but ultimately just get repetitive and end up costing you a load of money and sucking up all the time you used to spend with your mates or watching the telly.

Quote from: J Arcane;318015I bet you hate D&D too.

It's very boring. It has no right being fun. I can get an equivalent experience by playing Diablo while talking on the phone. At least Diablo had some forward momentum. Jumping out of my nighelf tree and praying countless times for holy light to smite some strange unorganized enemy creatures that all the other nightelves tolerate so I can get enough experience to travel isn't my idea of a great time.

Quote from: jibbajibba;318032This is exactly like MMOs.
But lets add....

i) You can't take anything from a Player you kill or from an ally that has been killed.
ii) A creature may attack you with a double bladed axe but that does not mean it actually has to have an axe or a wepon of any description at all.
iii) as Monsters do their walk back and forth thing the best way to find out how to get past them is to try it a few tiems die and then come back and do it again.
iv) Pets....
v) It takes exactly the same number of hits for a 10th level fighterer to kill a 10th level critter that it does for a 40th level fighter to kill a 40th level critter

MMOs are like cute blonde chicks. They are great to look at, fun to jump into the first few time but ultimately just get repetitive and end up costing you a load of money and sucking up all the time you used to spend with your mates or watching the telly.

I think to get a real MMO feel you should run the game daily at your local game store and award experience to whoever comes. That way, the nerds that live at the game store get more powerful characters and the casual gamers with jobs or other hobbies get shit on.

Quote from: Cranewings;318038I think to get a real MMO feel you should run the game daily at your local game store and award experience to whoever comes. That way, the nerds that live at the game store get more powerful characters and the casual gamers with jobs or other hobbies get shit on.

Simulating endgame loot would be pretty brutal. Imagine playing the same module every week for a year, and at the every session the GM rolls percentile dice to see if that piece of gear you need has dropped... 5% chance! Aw, better luck next week.

Or it does drop and another player at the table just grabs it as you stand by helplessly.

Quote from: J Arcane;318015I bet you hate D&D too.

No, I LOVE D&D. What I hate is the 2 games that have come out in the last 9 or 10 years that have the "D&D" Brand Name on them but really aren't...

Quote from: ticopelp;318024Well, let's see...

Every player has a permanent Resurrection spell on them, so death is meaningless and everyone is immortal.

Same with every monster in the game.

The uncivilized areas of the world are populated with immortal monsters who just sort of wander back and forth. So create some random monster tables with a 100% chance of encounter whenever you so much as step outside the city limits.

Whenever the PCs complete an epic, world-saving quest, they will have to wait in line behind the other group of guys who just killed the same dire threat to the world.

All members of the same "faction" have some sort of permanent mind-control preventing them from attacking anyone who's on their "side," and these sides are clearly delineated.

However, beyond this arbitrary division, morality doesn't actually exist. Players will do anything and everything for money no matter who they have to slaughter. (So not much of a change from regular tabletop roleplaying, nyuk nyuk.)

"Banks" are actually massive storage units that will hold anything for you for no charge, including stacks of meat, furs, rare eggs... so they either have magical refrigeration units back there, or smell terrible.

No one but your party is motivated to do so much as get out of bed. Save my son. Find me some berries. Fetch me my stick which I dropped forty yards away. Restore the honor of my family and wreak vengeance on those who have sullied my good name. Nah, I'm really busy here, you do it.

For the most part, nothing anyone does changes anything about the world. Oh, you say you wiped out the Iron Slavers? Sorry, they're back, because none of them can be killed. But then again, they can't really do much but wander back and forth, so we're safe.

All in good fun, I like WoW and played it for a number of years.

LOL! Hilarious!!

RPGPundit

Quote from: ticopelp;318024Well, let's see...

Every player has a permanent Resurrection spell on them, so death is meaningless and everyone is immortal.

I remember Everquest deaths that were far from meaningless, with massive Xp loss and dangerous, corpses retrievals that you had to get all your friends to help you with.

And I remember table top games in which characters died and got replaced with a new toon and nobody much cared or noticed. And just last week we had a TPK in the game I was playing in, except the GM decided to fudge things so we all lived anyway. Now how's that for meaningless?

It's all relative.

No, that last example is a case of a Bad GM. How are players expected to learn tactics if Death isn't a factor?...

Quote from: greylond;318509How are players expected to learn tactics if Death isn't a factor?...

Why must death be a factor when learning tactics?