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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: David Johansen on January 31, 2017, 12:51:28 AM

Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: David Johansen on January 31, 2017, 12:51:28 AM
The demihuman facial hair thread gave me an idea.

Yes that's right!  What does the mirror D&D universe look like?

The elves have goatees of course.  But are women strong and decisive rather than meek and submissive?  Okay, hot button topic though very apt to the Star Trek episode.

Dwarves aren't tall but maybe they're lazy and dishonest folk who pass off shoddy workmanship and then leave town.

Are the orcs noble warriors or are they down trodden pacifists oppressed by the violent and cruel humans.

Humans come in all alignments so it's a little trickier to flip flop them.  I think the noble knights wear black and actually follow their chivalric code but treat the lower classes and orcs like dirt.  Kind of the opposite of the knights who wear shining armor but are either pure or hypocritical that we usually see.

Are dragons dumb brutes who live in trailers, utterly lacking the dash and style of normal D&D dragons?

Is fantasy land a democracy or constitutional monarchy?  The latter is pretty funny but I'm not sure mirror universes should just be played for laughs.

Alternately, is it a darker universe where the top of the alignment grid goes lawful evil, neutral evil, chaotic evil, and the next layer goes lawful nihilist, neutral nihilist, chaotic nihilist, and the bottom goes lawful annihilator, neutral annihilator, chaotic annihilator?

Well, it's an amusing topic, go to it!
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: Tristram Evans on January 31, 2017, 12:58:54 AM
Quote from: David Johansen;943381The demihuman facial hair thread gave me an idea.

Yes that's right!  What does the mirror D&D universe look like?

D&D isn't a setting, its a game system that forms the basis of numerous settings. So the question makes little sense.

QuoteBut are women strong and decisive rather than meek and submissive?  Okay, hot button topic though very apt to the Star Trek episode.

Now I'm wondering if you've actually ever seen D&D books. What women are"Meek and Submissive"?

(http://orkerhulen.dk/Fantasy%20art/Jeff%20Easley/JeffEasley1.jpg)

QuoteWell, it's an amusing topic, go to it!

meh.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: Spinachcat on January 31, 2017, 02:59:08 AM
I've played several Mirror Universe D&D campaigns over the decades, and they have been basically "play a monster" games, but now the monsters are the good guys and the Elves, Dwarfs, Halflings and Humans were the evil dudes. The only campaign that lasted was a Palladium Fantasy one because the Wolfen Empire are "good guys" (at least compared to some of their human neighbors) and the monstrous races aren't "auto-evil" in Palladium.

I'm totally down with the Goatee Elves.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: One Horse Town on January 31, 2017, 06:22:13 AM
Kender are mythical fairies who leave gifts for you. Find a coin? The Kender left it!

Gnomes are luddites, travelling the land destroying machinery with their pointy wooden clogs.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: Omega on January 31, 2017, 01:52:45 PM
You get Dark Sun?:cool:
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: David Johansen on January 31, 2017, 09:33:00 PM
Tristram, as I said in the original post the comment on the women was more about the Star Trek episode Mirror Mirror than it was about D&D.  Love that painting though, did it appear anywhere before the second edition AD&D rulebook?

D&D most certainly does have an implied setting which the DM is free to ignore or follow as they like.

I do think that just making the good guys evil and the bad guys good and adding goatee's isn't much of a challenge.  And most of the general fantasy tropes have been twisted half to death by this point.

So what if we make the obscure and uncommon common place and the popular and common obscure.

Would that make the mirror universe one that primarily uses the Fiend Folio monsters perhaps?
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: Daztur on January 31, 2017, 11:39:35 PM
The most fun bit would be mirroring the play style. You're outgunned defenders trying to keep your home safe against marauders but you know every inch of your home turf and you're ready for them. Basically playing as Tucker's kobolds.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: Telarus on February 01, 2017, 12:50:40 AM
Quote from: Daztur;943550The most fun bit would be mirroring the play style. You're outgunned defenders trying to keep your home safe against marauders but you know every inch of your home turf and you're ready for them. Basically playing as Tucker's kobolds.

https://www.gog.com/game/dungeon_keeper
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: JeremyR on February 01, 2017, 05:08:57 AM
Quote from: Telarus;943557https://www.gog.com/game/dungeon_keeper

There was actually a 2e supplement for that sort of thing, Reverse Dungeon.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: remial on February 01, 2017, 10:50:37 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;943381Dwarves aren't tall but maybe they're lazy and dishonest folk who pass off shoddy workmanship and then leave town.

so, halflings then?
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: RPGPundit on February 07, 2017, 10:30:49 PM
What a goofy premise.

Anyways, yeah, if you were really talking about the core concept of D&D, I'd say that the opposite would really be the 'reverse dungeon' situation, where the PCs were humanoids trying to kill off invading adventurers.

Though I guess in some ways, my DCC campaign is a kind of 'mirror universe' of some of the standard stereotypes of D&D settings.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: David Johansen on February 07, 2017, 11:46:08 PM
I think part of the problem is that just about every twist and reversal has been played out over the years.

Goofy is one way to go.  Ultrablack is another.  You could argue that Warhammer's Old World is the mirror universe D&D.  Even the bad guys are going to lose in the end, madness and insanity will reign.  Well or you get The End Times and Age of Sigmar which is stupid.  Stupidity reigns in the end perhaps?

A historical game where the magic reflects people's belief in magic and has game effect but everyone is human, mortal, vulnerable might be a mirror universe.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: RPGPundit on February 09, 2017, 10:38:27 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;944683A historical game where the magic reflects people's belief in magic and has game effect but everyone is human, mortal, vulnerable might be a mirror universe.

So, Dark Albion?
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: David Johansen on February 10, 2017, 08:19:00 AM
Quite possibly.  I always think historical roleplaying gets short changed.  Too many people want to play superheroes and monsters.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: Narmer on February 11, 2017, 02:31:19 PM
Quote from: remial;943694so, halflings then?

They are called "halflings" because they are a human and a half in stature.  Thin, well muscled giants who love simple food, the rough life of the wilderness and are known to be pugnacious and bold.  A common phrase heard when halflings are around is, "Better watch your tongue or that halfling is going to kick your ass!"
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: David Johansen on February 11, 2017, 03:14:06 PM
no, no, no, those are "and a halflings" they're the offspring of a human and a Halfling.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: Narmer on February 13, 2017, 11:28:03 AM
Quote from: David Johansen;945176no, no, no, those are "and a halflings" they're the offspring of a human and a Halfling.

Oh.  I thought those were threequarterlings.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on February 14, 2017, 09:02:48 PM
Quote from: Narmer;945171They are called "halflings" because they are a human and a half in stature.  Thin, well muscled giants who love simple food, the rough life of the wilderness and are known to be pugnacious and bold.  A common phrase heard when halflings are around is, "Better watch your tongue or that halfling is going to kick your ass!"

Boggies!  "any small, slow, and stupid beast that turned its back on a crowd of boggies was looking for a stomping."
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: David Johansen on February 14, 2017, 11:39:08 PM
Oddly enough, I occasionally break out the tribe of cannibalistic stone age hobbits just to screw with my players.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: Telarus on February 15, 2017, 04:19:32 AM
The halfing/hobbit terms point back towards "hob-goblin" and "hob-thuar" (hob meaning either "well natured" or "shiny, bright, flashing"). On the side of Law this comes out as Bilbo & Frodo's folk, on the side of Chaos this comes out as militaristic/fascist goblins with Roman or Japanese style foot unit tactics.  Weird.

I'm just going to have a bunch of different "goblin fae" tribes in my Earthdawn/Greyhawk mashup. Faeries (in my Barsaive) are spirits from another nether-world that have gotten caught in our astral space and try to manifest into physical forms (because that's actually safer if you can't hide your magical nature in astral space, and fae do _weird_ things to the astral space in their vicinity unless they manifest into a physical form some-how, and that weird astral warping attracts Horrors :evil:). The Seelie Court has not fallen to the Named Horrors, the Unseelie Court has. Bits of other arthurian and celtic/germanic/mediterranian/etc myth are woven in. One of my primary sources for tribes is this awesome little OSR game: http://legendaryquest.netfirms.com/ (click on Downloads) A seriously impressive set of bestiaries based on well researched myths of various cultures.
Title: Mirror Universe D&D
Post by: Christopher Brady on February 15, 2017, 04:29:25 AM
I once, just once, tried to do something like this.  The nice guy races were dead, they were all killed by a Necromancer of their own creation, leaving the 'Evil' races as the only playable characters.  So the Orcs and Goblins and Drow had to start figure out what to do now.  It didn't fly.