Exploring various rpg forums:
I have encountered a dozen or more threads with people questioning why they should charge for games or what's the point in publishing a game. Anyway, it seems that if the above is evil, then giving away a self-created rpg is an altruistic action. My contentions are the following:
1. If you have a problem with publishing in the traditional manner or charging, then don't do it or at least don't bemoan the fact that other people do it.
2. Humans possess some selfishness. There are intangible benefits which have been overlooked. Promotional usage, seeking feedback and fulfilling your own desire to create are rewards.
3. If I lived in the 1950s and heard that...:)
4. Assuming you want to present the best product possible, charging for free either states you are wealthy enough to do it, expect people to donate their time/energy, or you think are talented enough and want everybody to know it. In other words, it is arguable that egotism and entitlement are involved.
5. There is no sainthood attached to charity. Internal motivations are a part of the equation when measuring the sanicity of an act.
6. Money is tied into quality or grace. INHO, most people think rpgs produced for free are amateurish at best and crap at worst w/o evaluating them. You really want your pet project to have that stigma attached to it.
Finally, I don't find giving away rpgs to be a bad thing but the act of creating a game shouldn't exceed the expectations in the greater scheme of things. It's a rpg. It won't feed anybody, cure disease or cure society's ills.
God, I sound like I hang out at //www.therpgsite.com or something
Duh = my title has an error in it. go=so
If someone has invested the time and energy to create something (a game, or adventure, or whatever) then it should not be looked down upon if that someone decides to charge a fee for someone else to recieve the end result of their effort.
I don't see why the fruit of anyone's labor should be given away except as advertising to get people to buy more fruit of their labor. They like the taste, the customer can come in and buy some more tasty stuff.
I wonder how many tight-fisted gamers who think RPGs should be free would be willing to do their work stocking shelves at Blockbuster for free.
So, does a price-tag infer quality? Is it that you don't think enough of your product to charge for it, or that (and this was my motivation) you just want people to have it? It's not like it took that damn long to create, and i'm not worried about "game designer credibility" or showing off my e-Penis.
I've bought way too many crap products off of rpgnow that should have been free, and downloaded numerous free products that i would have (and often times did) end up buying/donating to.
Risus and Encounter Critical are great examples. They're completely free, and if you just feel the urge to thank S. John, you can purchase a dead-tree edition, or in the case of Risus, the Companion. In my estimation, that's a perfect model.
I would love to see some specific threads where people are complaining about anything being given away for free, as i've never encountered it.
Quote from: kregmosierSo, does a price-tag infer quality? Is it that you don't think enough of your product to charge for it, or that (and this was my motivation) you just want people to have it? It's not like it took that damn long to create, and i'm not worried about "game designer credibility" or showing off my e-Penis.
I've bought way too many crap products off of rpgnow that should have been free, and downloaded numerous free products that i would have (and often times did) end up buying/donating to.
Risus and Encounter Critical are great examples. They're completely free, and if you just feel the urge to thank S. John, you can purchase a dead-tree edition, or in the case of Risus, the Companion. In my estimation, that's a perfect model.
I would love to see some specific threads where people are complaining about anything being given away for free, as i've never encountered it.
When you gave your product away, did you complain about traditional publishing or the fact that some people charge? I am addressing anti-publishing and anti-charging threads, not the people who just give their stuff and those who download it w/o complaining to others.
Secondly, price-tag
shouldn't infer quality but in the minds of some people, it does. I haven't seen your product so I can't judge it but there is a price bias.
Quote from: ancientgamerWhen you gave your product away, did you complain about traditional publishing or the fact that some people charge? I am addressing anti-publishing and anti-charging threads, not the people who just give their stuff and those who download it w/o complaining to others.
Ahhhh gotcha, ok then...no harm, no foul. ;)
Quote from: ancientgamerSecondly, price-tag shouldn't infer quality but in the minds of some people, it does. I haven't seen your product so I can't judge it but there is a price bias.
yeah, i understand the reasoning some people have that "
if it's free, it's not worth looking at", but of course don't agree with it.
now, it's not all altruistic: my eventual goal was/is to bulk the manuscript up a bit more and try and get it printed. of course i'd sell the printed/bound version, but would always want to maintain a decent free version online.
Quote from: ancientgamerSecondly, price-tag shouldn't infer quality but in the minds of some people, it does. I haven't seen your product so I can't judge it but there is a price bias.
To me, it is not just quality but more a matter of worth. If you get a free copy of a book but do not like it, you dump it. If you pay for a copy, you will most likely try to resell it. Someone may like it. This is not always true but it is a more likely scenario. By charging for your work, you assign a sense of worth or value to it. It changes the perception and how someone interacts with it. This does not mean you always need to do so. Some items are meant to be handed out free but it should be thought out what those item are. My core rules are available for free. Why? Because I hope a GM will purchase one of my books and his players can then have access to the rules for free. Some argue that devalues the book. I disagree, obviously. ;)
I have seen some of the threads you are talking about. Man, I just don't get it.
Bill
Quote from: ancientgamerExploring various rpg forums:
I have encountered a dozen or more threads with people questioning why they should charge for games or what's the point in publishing a game. Anyway, it seems that if the above is evil, then giving away a self-created rpg is an altruistic action. My contentions are the following:
Um, fallacy of the excluded middle, much?
Maybe some people just produce cool stuff as a hobby and with the internet and accessible publishing tools you can now distribute this to other gamers. Look at Pulp Gamer who just put up a great Savage Worlds pulp campaign for free. What does this have to do with good or evil?
This discussion is based on nothing.
Quote from: walkerpUm, fallacy of the excluded middle, much?
Maybe some people just produce cool stuff as a hobby and with the internet and accessible publishing tools you can now distribute this to other gamers. Look at Pulp Gamer who just put up a great Savage Worlds pulp campaign for free. What does this have to do with good or evil?
This discussion is based on nothing.
See my comment to kregmoister further down this thread. My comments weren't addressed to people who want to create or those who want to enjoy the forementioned Savage Worlds campaign. Instead, my comments were for those few people who to make something for free but then deride other creators who want to charge.
Other than that, I only see an argument over semantics. Feel free to change the terms of good and evil.
Quote from: ancientgamerWhen you gave your product away, did you complain about traditional publishing or the fact that some people charge? I am addressing anti-publishing and anti-charging threads, not the people who just give their stuff and those who download it w/o complaining to others.
Well, but your topic is "
what's so great about giving away a game anyway?"
I think there
is something great about giving a game away. While commercially sold books are great and I read a lot of them, I'm also personally a big fan of the Internet and the World Wide Web in general -- both of which are built to a large degree on freely shared information. There are a lot of great synergies that happen when you have a lot of information shared for free.
Quote from: jhkimWell, but your topic is "what's so great about giving away a game anyway?"
I think there is something great about giving a game away. While commercially sold books are great and I read a lot of them, I'm also personally a big fan of the Internet and the World Wide Web in general -- both of which are built to a large degree on freely shared information. There are a lot of great synergies that happen when you have a lot of information shared for free.
That is one of the more insightful comments made on that side.
Giving a game away can be great free promotion, provided that your giveaway doesn't cost you more than you can afford to spend on it (in both time and money). It also shouldn't be poor quality, or your later releases (even if they're very high quality) may suffer from lack of interest.
(Now, shameless plug time...) Speaking of which, we're giving away a free promotional (PDF) issue of the Knights of the Dinner Table magazine over here... (http://www.kenzerco.com/free_files/kodt/KODT132_promo.pdf) ;)
Quote from: Mark PlemmonsGiving a game away can be great free promotion, provided that your giveaway doesn't cost you more than you can afford to spend on it (in both time and money). It also shouldn't be poor quality, or your later releases (even if they're very high quality) may suffer from lack of interest.
I completely agree with this viewpoint.
There are a couple of complaints earlier in the thread about PDF downloads which weren't considered worth the price. It seems to me that there is a misconception about how much a gaming product costs to produce. I'm not just talking about possible printing costs for deadtree. Any gaming product will involve writers, artists, and editors which all cost money to employ on a project and all of these costs have to be passed on to the consumer for the publisher to stay in business.
Yes, you could have something that is made freely by the creator and then given away freely via the internet, but all too often you get what you pay for. As a general rule, the more money gets paid then the higher standard of product gets made.
Quote from: ancientgamerInstead, my comments were for those few people who to make something for free but then deride other creators who want to charge.
So this thread should be titled "People who criticize people who sell games suck."
I'm just don't agree with this idea that because a small minority who holds an extreme opinion that people shouldn't sell games equates to there being something wrong with giving away games for free. There is room for both free games and purchased games in our hobby. That's an excellent thing. Again, there is no argument here.
Quote from: jeff37923Yes, you could have something that is made freely by the creator and then given away freely via the internet, but all too often you get what you pay for. As a general rule, the more money gets paid then the higher standard of product gets made.
That has not been my experience at all. Not in gaming and not in the rest of life. Sometimes it may be true, but not always.
...and I labeled this thread a rant. I learned my lesson, never use an evocative title again.:)
Quote from: ancientgamer...and I labeled this thread a rant. I learned my lesson, never use an evocative title again.:)
Point taken.