I was curious what some of you guys use mega dungeons for (IME I will use a level or two and players leave do other stuff and maybe return later...or die when they go somewhere they were not ready to be) at least those of you who use them.   I was also looking for a recommended list of same old school flavor preferred.  System does not much matter as I use SW and GURPS these days for our table top and I can convert creatures/situations from most any system to those on the fly. 

   I remember a fellow who posts here from time to time who had made a mega dungeon or two and if memory serves he had a new one out or being kickstarted...anyone remember who he was and what his works were titled?  Looked to match my taste. 

Having played significant chunks of lots of the OSR megadungeons, I can recommend the following, depending on what exactly, you want:

1. Rappan Athuk--Huge, great flavor, lots of variety.  There's an outdoor sandbox area and the individual levels can generally be completed in one session.  It's statted for Swords & Wizardry.  Includes full stat blocks with monster XP like all the Swords & Wizardry stuff, which is a huge plus, IMO.
2. Tegel Manor--Updated version, also statted for Swords & Wizardry.  Not quite a megadungeon, but rather a crazy haunted house.  The update adds lots of outdoor areas and additional dungeons.
3. The Black Monastery--A bit smaller, but still large.  Also for Swords & Wizardry; very easy, simple backstory one can drop in anywhere.

Any of the Greg Gillespie megadungeons, but depends on what you want.  "Barrowmaze" is mostly undead.  "Forbidden Caverns of Archaia" is sort of like "The Caves of Chaos" on steroids in the Grand Canyon.  "Highfell" is a collection of wizard towers on a floating island and is the most modular.  "Dwarrowdeep" is an abandoned dwarf hold, but has a lot of empty spaces for the DM to design.  All have solid base areas with small towns and wilderness.  Some cool new monster variants too.  Originally designed for Labyrinth Lord, but Greg's own Dragonslayer game will be out soon and is designed for these.

Michael Curtis' "Stonehell," available in two volumes from Lulu, is possibly the best value for money.  Pretty easy to run because of its design and layout.  Originally written for Labyrinth Lord.

If you want gonzo weirdness with evil clowns, dinosaurs, and lots of tech and classic rock references, you might like Patrick Wetmore's "Anomalous Subsurface Environment."  Also designed for Labyrinth Lord.

"The Halls of Arden Vul" is amazing, but also massive (5 volumes) and, IMO, too complicated to run.  Some of the single room descriptions run several pages in length.  But it has flavor, if you're itching to spend $275 (hard copy; I think the pdfs are like $30 each).

There are others, but these are the ones I've played, at least in part.  Haven't "completed" any, but it's a goal for the coming year.

A poster with a Megadungeon... Are you talking about Alexander Macris finishing up Dwimmermount, maybe? It's very setting specific, kind of like Arden Vul has solid limits as to where it can be easily fit into setting/genre-wise, but moreso. That said, price to page ratio is pretty awesome, especially when on sale or the like. Has an ACKS version and I want to say a Labyrinth Lord version?

Edit: To clarify, I have not purchased it or played Dwimmermount, only considered doing so.

If you are interested in Arden Vul, my marketplace is usually the best place to get the whole set in PDF. It's priced as if CAD=USD, so that's about 24% off at the moment (and you can pay in a number of different currencies.)

https://composedreamgames.com/marketplace/arden-vul  The maps are also free if you want a sort of preview.

JG's Thieves of Badabaskor is a lot of fun. Don't know if it's big enough for your liking though.

There's Castle of the Mad Archmage.

Quote from: oggsmash on December 29, 2023, 11:57:30 AM
   I was curious what some of you guys use mega dungeons for (IME I will use a level or two and players leave do other stuff and maybe return later...or die when they go somewhere they were not ready to be) at least those of you who use them.   I was also looking for a recommended list of same old school flavor preferred.  System does not much matter as I use SW and GURPS these days for our table top and I can convert creatures/situations from most any system to those on the fly. 

   I remember a fellow who posts here from time to time who had made a mega dungeon or two and if memory serves he had a new one out or being kickstarted...anyone remember who he was and what his works were titled?  Looked to match my taste.

The "Players getting bored, and leaving after levels 1-2", has been my experience every time I have tried to run a megadungeon. 

Some of the settings attached to the megadungeons are pretty amazing.  I am currently reading Anomalous Subsurface Environment ASE:1 by Patrick Wetmore, and I am blown away by his City of Denethix, and the Land of One Thousand Towers.  It is very post apocalyptic and would be perfect for a Gamma World campaign, or Mutant Future, or the Goodman Games clone. 

Quote from: Persimmon on December 29, 2023, 12:24:22 PM
Having played significant chunks of lots of the OSR megadungeons, I can recommend the following, depending on what exactly, you want:

1. Rappan Athuk--Huge, great flavor, lots of variety.  There's an outdoor sandbox area and the individual levels can generally be completed in one session.  It's statted for Swords & Wizardry.  Includes full stat blocks with monster XP like all the Swords & Wizardry stuff, which is a huge plus, IMO.
2. Tegel Manor--Updated version, also statted for Swords & Wizardry.  Not quite a megadungeon, but rather a crazy haunted house.  The update adds lots of outdoor areas and additional dungeons.
3. The Black Monastery--A bit smaller, but still large.  Also for Swords & Wizardry; very easy, simple backstory one can drop in anywhere.

Any of the Greg Gillespie megadungeons, but depends on what you want.  "Barrowmaze" is mostly undead.  "Forbidden Caverns of Archaia" is sort of like "The Caves of Chaos" on steroids in the Grand Canyon.  "Highfell" is a collection of wizard towers on a floating island and is the most modular.  "Dwarrowdeep" is an abandoned dwarf hold, but has a lot of empty spaces for the DM to design.  All have solid base areas with small towns and wilderness.  Some cool new monster variants too.  Originally designed for Labyrinth Lord, but Greg's own Dragonslayer game will be out soon and is designed for these.

Michael Curtis' "Stonehell," available in two volumes from Lulu, is possibly the best value for money.  Pretty easy to run because of its design and layout.  Originally written for Labyrinth Lord.

If you want gonzo weirdness with evil clowns, dinosaurs, and lots of tech and classic rock references, you might like Patrick Wetmore's "Anomalous Subsurface Environment."  Also designed for Labyrinth Lord.

"The Halls of Arden Vul" is amazing, but also massive (5 volumes) and, IMO, too complicated to run.  Some of the single room descriptions run several pages in length.  But it has flavor, if you're itching to spend $275 (hard copy; I think the pdfs are like $30 each).

There are others, but these are the ones I've played, at least in part.  Haven't "completed" any, but it's a goal for the coming year.

  Greg Gillespie was the fellow I was thinking of....Thanks!!   Have you run anyone all the way (well at least as far as they could get) through RA?   I have it in a few versions (PF, 5e) either of which are easy conversions for me...I was just wondering if you have had a group stick to it long term.   The area around it seems to offer lots of diversion from the dungeon for people who get a little tired of being underground so I would like to try it. 

With Rappan Athuk, and Undermountain; I know from the outset, that only I would be committed to running the whole treacherous thing.  They are huge toolboxes; containing maps of levels, with descriptions of possible encounters.  They give you something you can spontaneously pull from, to explain what lies beyond the next door of your homebrewed dungeon. 

Quote from: Persimmon on December 29, 2023, 12:24:22 PM
There are others, but these are the ones I've played, at least in part.  Haven't "completed" any, but it's a goal for the coming year.

Damn, you nailed pretty much everything I was thinking of. Very nice list.

Rappan Athuk has, what, four different released versions at this point? At least three, I have the original three-book version and one of the more recent collected re-releases for some reason. The unkillable shit monster is a particularly treasured memory, and turned into a running gag even after the party left.

The Black Monastery and Tegel Manor sorta share the same space. I liked both, I'd probably go with Tegel Manor if I had to pick one or the other, but not by much.

I had a blast playing in a long running Barrowmaze campaign. Do know before you go in that the emphasis on undead turns it into D&D on hard mode. Many encounters won't be making reaction rolls or morale checks, so it can be more of a meatgrinder than many other old school dungeons. Its a little ironic something weak on those two elements was such a darling of the OSR, but it really is very well executed.

Caverns of Thracia deserves mention as well. Purists call it borderline on being a true mega-dungeon, it might be "only" a very large dungeon, but it its still large enough to tentpole a campaign.

Those are the only two I know directly from play. Caverns of Archaia reads well. Its got some good set pieces, and some good tactical dungeon design. Strangely it got mixed reviews when it first released, perhaps in comparison to Barrowmaze (same author, and Barrow did get played and worked on longer). But when I dug into Caverns myself I couldn't see it.

As an aside, the Caves of Chaos writ large organization of it also makes it a sourcebook for ready-made monster lairs. That's a selling point the author doesn't make and I haven't seen anyone else discuss, but it did make it value for money for me, even without running the whole thing.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on December 29, 2023, 03:01:05 PMThe "Players getting bored, and leaving after levels 1-2", has been my experience every time I have tried to run a megadungeon.

That mega-dungeon game I played in pulled it off by being explicitly what was advertised and recruited for. So it wasn't group first, compromise on the game second, everyone there knew what we were in for and was at least willing to check it out. And then we went on to something else entirely when it was done, but I would still do it all over again.

There is Grande Temple of Jing (Kickstarter project URL: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hammerdog/the-grande-temple-of-jing-5th-edition-and-other-ed ). I've never read my copy so I' can't weigh in beyond that (so many books, so little time!). Seems to be different themes and designed to be dropped into any campaign as the entrance is via a gate (magical, not physical) if memory serves.

In my experience, even the best megadungeons get boring real quick. What kept the ones back in the day fresh is that it wasn't the same PCs going down it all the time. In some ways, you were competing with other players.

IMHO, what works best with the same group are mini-settings, where there are a lot of little dungeons and sites and crap. The Lost City of Barakus is really good. The Beast that Waits is another. Peaks and Valleys of the Dwarves.

Greg Gillespie's megadungeons are great. I've run through much of Caverns of Archaia and a good portion of Barrowmaze (through mid-level) but haven't completed either of them because of burnout and how huge they are. I would highly recommend either of them depending on the vibe you want to go with. I think preferred Caverns of Archaia just due to the variety it provides compared to undead-heavy Barrowmaze. Highfell is a little too gonzo for my tastes so I doubt I'll ever run it. Dwarrodeep seems very cool but the extra prep means it might be a long time before I get around to playing it.

The Halls of Arden Vul seems like a great product just from skimming through it, but it also has some of the most dense and awful layout I think I've seen for a megadungeon. In order to actually run this thing, I'm going to need to either print a spare copy just to mark up in the margins and highlight the text, or I'm going to have to re-write the key. Given its sheer scale, either is a huge undertaking.

The things I like about megadungeons: they provide a solid basis for a campaign and have a natural progression into domain play (staying on one place for a long time and getting a ton of resources). The sheer scale of these things also deprograms people used to more modern games and teaches them that not every door is meant to be opened, not every room will be profitable if cleared. I like the non-linearity. I like the idea that these dungeons can fit an open table easily and people can share their experiences. I love Greg's notes in Barrowmaze sharing the experiences at his table.

The things I don't like about megadungeons in practice: The content is often repetitive so players need to consciously manage your burnout and rotate in other content. The megadungeons also don't usually have enough quest hooks built into the downtime in town to help provide specific goals and destinations for the players other than the initial hooks to get you into the dungeon the first time or some of the in-dungeon quests you might stumble across. So you need really self-motivated players to make it very deep into one of these. The pace on these can also grind to a crawl when they have too many lethal traps and ambushes.

In general I wish there was more integration between town, wilderness, and dungeon to keep momentum up and give me more options to deal with burnout that still gives me routes to circle back to the dungeon. I wish the wilderness around these dungeons was a little more fleshed out with points of interest further away.

I ran a campaign of Dwimmermount online during lockdowns which was lots of fun; 5e PCs made it to 10th level before it fizzled (52 weekly sessions). You'll probably want to do work to develop the world more than was in the book by the time the PCs reach 5th.

Reading Tegel Manor is uninspiring; I'd rather play in Castle Amber, even though the Goodman Games modernisation of it was underwhelming. (Their B4 Lost City is also a bit underwhelming / a missed opportunity but nearly megadungeon-sized, and feels like it could be a forced tentpole until the players reach 4th or 5th level, after which you could open up the world easily.)

Rappan Athuk is pretty dense, could use more editing as well as better layout and more careful conversion between editions - Frog God quality control usually disappoints me. I've only played a bit of Arden Vul PbP, but the history there really appeals to me.

I've wanted to rewrite Thunderspire Labyrinth from 4e into a proper megadungeon / vault-of-the-drow-style small underdark, but haven't had players bite on that campaign premise yet. I think it's got promise.

For a different take on "dungeon", I hate the town in "Lesserton & Mor", but the ruined city procedural generator might be big enough to be a campaign tentpole, or give you a good set of exposed ruins to build your set pieces underneath.

I've run both Barrowmaze and Stonehell for years using 5e D&D and enjoyed them a lot. Barrowmaze campaign page at https://frloudwater.blogspot.com/2021/04/helix-barrowmoor.html  session accounts at https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/10021247/barrowmaze

Some Stonehell accounts at https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/10701418/ghinarian-hills-slash-stonehell-session-accounts

In 2024 I'm planning to try running Highfell with Dragonbane rules - https://simonyrpgs.blogspot.com/2023/12/highfell-drifting-dungeon.html