The Heavy Gear 20th Anniversary announcement (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=29612) made me think of this, because I very nearly bought HG back in the day but ultimately didn't, in part because of the concerns below.
Who's ever played one? I don't mean "a RPG that has mecha" like Rifts or even Traveller. I mean a RPG in which all or most players play mecha pilots and spend a significant amount of time inside the machines: Mechwarrior, Robotech, Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, Mekton, etc.
What game did you play, and what's the system like?
What does a typical session and/or campaign looks like? Is it a mission-based, military squad deal? Is there a significant amount of play away from the battlefield, outside of the mecha?
I have played Jovian Chronicles, Cthulhutech and Remnants. All three use a mecha system that is a lot like the personal scale system, and are generally fast in combat. Of the three, Remnants is the best system.
Generally, the games swing between personal drama and mecha combat, not that much different from most fighter pilot, mythic fantasy or superhero campaigns that I have played in.
I've played Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, Mechwarrior/Battletech, Heavy Gear, and Cthulhutech.
I keep returning to Mekton, because its (mostly) elegant system, its slightly crunchy ability to make mechs of a variety of different styles and scales. It was a simple, but effective system with layers to make the mecha stuff fun and different enough from the ground/out of cockpit stuff. Yet still using the same system.
Cthulhutech has a system I'd warn people about--its poorly thought out, poorly researched, and basically garbage in terms of system design.
Heavy Gear is alright, with a few hiccups, I like its world and scale of mecha best, but the fact it didn't have the flexibility of Mekton is why Mekton keeps winning out for me.
Mechwarrior/Battletech is--uh, well a thing. I've never found its mecha rules fun or interesting except in video game interpretations, the actual tabletop game is beloved by many, but not by me. Bad rules, and excuses (Older editions had no called shots so you couldn't aim for the cockpit IIRC) layered on top a hoary old system that needs to be seriously skinned, pruned, and let to regrow.
What's the Mekton setting like? Which edition is best?
I've never played or run a mecha game, but I was wondering: has anybody here checked out Alephtar Games' BRP Mecha (http://alephtargames.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=76)? And if so, what did you think of it?
Played Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, Battletech, d20 Mecha (Mecha Crusade from d20 Future , DragonMech, Iron Kingdoms, and BESM d20 Mecha), Robotech, and Jovian Chronicles.
Of all of the above, I keep coming back to Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, and Jovian Chronicles. Those three are the best with an Honorable Mention going out to Iron Kingdoms.
I came to mecha from an enjoyment of anime. I wanted to play in the same universe that had Robotech and Gundam style action going on. Battletech, Robotech, Mecha Crusade, and BESM d20 Mecha could not emulate the action of the anime and their appeal rapidly dissappeared.
DragonMech is D&D with giant robots shoehorned in, but it is so out-of-scale between PCs and mechs that it has trouble when they interact, which causes the game flow to become choppy and break down. Iron Kingdoms has the right scale between its steamjacks and the PCs so that while they are formidable opponents, they can still be defeated by PCs. The rich and just-detailed-enough background for their setting makes the Iron Kingdoms d20 setting the best for steampunk D&D with Mecha.
Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, and Jovian Chronicles are the winners for elegant rules which support anime mecha genre emulation while allowing incredible flexibility for Players and GMs. It should be noted that Jovian Chronicles got their start by being a setting for Mekton II. The Mekton series is built like a toolbox with a default setting, like Traveller, so while you can use the default - you can also do your own interpretation of the Pacific Rim movie if you like.
I've played Mechwarrior, and run Mechwarrior II, dabbled a little with Mekton-II+MTS, and a little bit of Heavy Gear/Silhouette (1st ed.)
The combat in Heavy Gear both personal and mecha is very realistic. That is, if you hit something it's going to die/go boom, be almost completely crippled, or just get a mere flesh wound. Armor does not ablate. You punch a hole in something, then it breaks, period. Mechs ('gears) do NOT own the battlefield. They are a component of the battlefield. An attack helo will eat Gears for lunch. So will an MBT. 'gears in HG are like gun jeeps. Fast, sprightly, and if used properly can be devastating in their own right. Again, if used properly. The silhouette system is a pretty lightweight RPG system that can be adapted to lots of other genres. It's a d6+ modifiers all the way down...average skills and stats are in the 0 to 1 range, incredible skills and stats might rate a 2, and legendary this-guy-can't-be-real are 3 and beyond. Meshes incredibly well with the mech system. Tried to play a sort of The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly scenario, players wanted action all the time so it was really just a bunch of mech skirmishes strung together. :/
Mechwarrior 1 was so clunky I don't even think about it at all. It barely meshed with the tabletop game. I've often wondered if they bought someone's ideas because they wanted an RPG to go with Battletech. IIRC it was largely d6 and occasionally percentile based. Mechwarrior II was more elegant but still had holes big enough to walk an Atlas through. Again, did not mesh well with the mech combat, but was slightly better. d10 based. I ran 3 MW2 modules, two of which were linked and all three were set in the Solaris-7 "game world" (it's the IS in miniature; a giant city with battlemech arenas in each, and five sectors of the city controlled by the 5 "great houses", each with its own culture, etc.) They were all "investigation" Type games that led to big mech fights at the end, so actually not a lot of mech-jock stuff.
Mekton II, d10 based, meshed pretty well with the ungodly complicated mech combat system. If you were willing to go full [strike]retard[/strike]anime, it really scratched the Macross/Gundam/Whatever itch pretty well as long as you could tolerate the math. Like Champions for giant robots (there was a champions supplement called Robot Warrior that was awful). Mekton-II/+MTS featured what is probably one of the most gorgeous and underrated supplements for any RPG ever, Operation:Rimfire. It is visually sumptuous, and, provided players are willing to get a little (read: a lot) railroaded, worth the ride. Overall if you can hack a sandbox for the default Mekton world together it's worth playing, otherwise, again...choo, choo! All aboard the Plotline Express! This one is all about grand, cinematic, setpiece battles.
Thanks for the input, jeff. Between Mekton II and Mekton Zeta, which would you rather point me towards?
DTRPG lists Mekton Zeta and something called Mekton Zeta Plus that seems to be a revision.
Crunch-wise, where do you feel the Mekton series falls? Compare to whatever games you feel handy. I understand it's supposed to be a variant Interlock (as in the CP2020 system) which I'm not familiar with beyond chargen.
Quote from: The Butcher;748623Crunch-wise, where do you feel the Mekton series falls? Compare to whatever games you feel handy. I understand it's supposed to be a variant Interlock (as in the CP2020 system) which I'm not familiar with beyond chargen.
Mekton is incredibly crunchy, particularly construction. Get ready to break out the calculator.
Quote from: The Butcher;748623Thanks for the input, jeff. Between Mekton II and Mekton Zeta, which would you rather point me towards?
DTRPG lists Mekton Zeta and something called Mekton Zeta Plus that seems to be a revision.
Crunch-wise, where do you feel the Mekton series falls? Compare to whatever games you feel handy. I understand it's supposed to be a variant Interlock (as in the CP2020 system) which I'm not familiar with beyond chargen.
Crunch-wise, I would say that the
Mekton series is on a par with
CP2020, they are made by the same publisher (R. Talsorian Games).
Mekton II came out in 1987 while
Mekton Zeta came out in 1995 (with a repreint in 1998), yet both are basically the same.
Mekton Zeta has a slight edge in that it is better written and formatted.
Mekton Zeta Plus is an expansion, not a revision, with a bunch of extras that are fairly helpful should you go for the options it offers.
Honestly, I grabbed both
Mekton II and
Mekton Zeta because the price is right and the systems are flexible. I've used the lifepaths for
Traveller when creating dynastic merchant houses with their own internal politics and intrigues.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;748629Mekton is incredibly crunchy, particularly construction. Get ready to break out the calculator.
Only the Advanced Construction system. The base one in the core rulebook involves very little math beyond making sure your added up components don't exceed budget. I've seen more math used in making sure PCs get a fair share of treasure in D&D.
Quote from: jeff37923;748635Only the Advanced Construction system. The base one in the core rulebook involves very little math beyond making sure your added up components don't exceed budget. I've seen more math used in making sure PCs get a fair share of treasure in D&D.
TBH I haven't looked at it in like...20 years? so I'll take your word for it. :]
Mekton Zeta is the corebook for the third edition of the game. Mekton Zeta Plus is the mecha construction book with expanded options for building your mecha.
IMO, Mekton II is the better Mekton system to start with, particularly if you just want to pick up one book and get started playing. I think that book has a easier and more versatile basic construction system. However, there may be some conversion shock if you pick up the Mekton Techbook to expand the construction options. The basic construction system in the corebook isn't quite the same as the one shown in the Techbook.
However, if you start with Mekton Zeta, the construction method in the corebook and the Mekton Zeta Plus techbook are the same. It's just that the default equipment shown in the core Zeta book isn't quite as versatile as the basic stuff provided in Mekton II. YMMV.
Nothing about Mekton is complicated. Characters are defined by attributes ranging from 2 to 10 and skills ranging from 0 to whatever. Tasks are resolved by attribute + skill + 1d10 against a difficulty number. That's the system.
Construction is basic addition and multiplication. Making up a Pathfinder character is more complicated than making a mech up in Mekton. Purchasing equipment in basic D&D is roughly the same degree of complexity.
Now, it is possible to make constructing a mech in Mekton complicated. If you want A LOT of optional systems on the machines, then the math can get complex in terms of order of operations and number juggling. But when this comes up it is for rare or unique mecha meant to be driven by series main villains and stuff of that nature. Mecha which are complicated to do the math for will tend to be one of a kind prototypes. Mook mecha will likely be very basic addition and not much else.
And if you don't want to do the math, just look at the books as parts lists.
Default Mekton Zeta isn't complex, Mekton Zeta Plus (the advanced construction guide) can take more work and effort, but its not terrible.
I'd say its about on par with more complex Pathfinder characters--but, that being said you only have to do most of it when you create Mecha and unless you're playing a setting where you've a reason for mecha swapping alot--it shouldn't be a big issue.
Thanks for throwing out that announcement, Butcher.
Mekton I have never played, but I have skimmed through its creation rules, and it's rather exceptional for its depth.
I've also checked out Cthulhutech right up until the point that they started going... weird. It's far more abstract in its details.
In regards to Heavy Gear, I came after 1st Edition. I'm most familiar with the 2nd Edition (which brought out the leaguebooks) and the 3rd Edition, SilCORE. I've been a long-time play-by-post roleplayer, and I've GMed quite a few campaigns between a motley assortment of rough and good friends there in the forums.
I've always played the squad types, but having been in the U.S. Army I'm prone to want to include my field knowledge and experiences. Sometimes therapeutic to insert anime humor into the mix just to get some tension out of the system.
The world could field just about any type of campaign you could imagine. The leaguebooks from 2nd edition were extraordinarily detailed and provided so much depth that it would take me a long time to really review them at all.
Espionage, counter-espionage, assassination, cyberwarfare, police work, it's all possible. Heavy Gears are just the league militaries' primary vehicle of choice because they're easy to mass produce.
Jovian Chronicles was also great, seeing as how I got my start on mecha with Gundam Wing. But with age and experience came a certain seasoning that made teenage angst less and less my forte. JC is more adult-oriented.
Take it with several dozen grains of salt, I'm a fan.
-Brandon F.
Back in college in the late 80's I ran a Robot Hero game. The campaign was based on a near future Earth when Islam had grown to dominate Russia, China, central Asia, half of Africa. Although still radical it had developed a respect for factory production, new technology and the like. Finally some crackpot dictator believed it was time to have a final war with the West for world domination. Giant robots were the weapon of choice. Just for kicks I included battle for various colonies around other planets (Mars, Neptune) and moons. And after a certain point mysterious alien spacecraft were seen passing through the solar system.
The PCs were all mech pilots, members of the U.S. military. I liked to toss in some variety of missions to keep things lively and the players guessing. So half the missions were straight mech vs mech battles while the other half were spy missions and the like outside of the mechs. Sometimes a mix of the two. One PC was hated by the American Autoduel Association so occasionally they showed up with a plot or simple interference.
The Robot Hero rules were alright but after the mechs became too large the numbers broke down. Space ship design wasn't thought out well either (this was before the Space Hero rules came out, which was an improvement.) And as usual with Hero the GM has to be careful what attacks he allows else a player can design a mech that can easily wipe out everything around it.
Overall though it worked well. The players all had a great time. Probably the best campaign I've run. No idea if Hero ever revisited the rules and updated/improved them since the 80's.
Was this Star Hero 5th Edition?
-Brandon F.
As far as settings go, Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles are the best by far. I have all of the 1e HG books and about half of the 2e books as well. Great setting.
I've got the first couple of books for Jovian Chronicles, but then they got harder to find locally so I pretty much stopped collecting them. I was a fan of the setting when they released the first adventure modules for Mekton II.
As far as system goes, I wasn't overly fond of the rules for either HG and especially Jovian Chronicles. JC made it worse with the realistic space movement, which is great and all; but seriously more math than I wanted to track during a game session...
Mekton II and Mekton Zeta are great systems for anime Mecha games. Zeta Plus adds a level of complexity and detail to Mecha creation, but lets you create just about any Mecha from any anime series ever. I fell in love with Mekton due in large part to my growing distaste for the Robotech system... Palladium is not for me...
For anyone interested, Mekton is getting a new edition with Mekton Zero. They did a Kickstarter, for which I backed. Its behind schedule, but I expect that from any Kickstarter. It should be on shelves some time after the Backers get theirs. Should be worth it.
Star Hero? Yeah, that sounds familiar, not sure which edition. I bought a copy of the rules back in the mid 90's I think. I remember it had space ship design rules that allowed for any amount of armor and hit points.
I really like Mekton Zeta and it really shines once you have Plus.
The system is actually pretty straightforward and essentially a point buy system to make about anything you want within the point limit and any setting limits.
It even works for making custom weapons and gear for PCs.
And that is an interesting feature of Mekton. You can use it to make more mundane settings, even a fantasy world with no giant robots.
The setting books were interesting too. The original Algol world, Empire and the later invasion book which I lack.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;748679As far as settings go, Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles are the best by far. I have all of the 1e HG books and about half of the 2e books as well. Great setting.
I've got the first couple of books for Jovian Chronicles, but then they got harder to find locally so I pretty much stopped collecting them. I was a fan of the setting when they released the first adventure modules for Mekton II.
As far as system goes, I wasn't overly fond of the rules for either HG and especially Jovian Chronicles. JC made it worse with the realistic space movement, which is great and all; but seriously more math than I wanted to track during a game session...
Mekton II and Mekton Zeta are great systems for anime Mecha games. Zeta Plus adds a level of complexity and detail to Mecha creation, but lets you create just about any Mecha from any anime series ever. I fell in love with Mekton due in large part to my growing distaste for the Robotech system... Palladium is not for me...
For anyone interested, Mekton is getting a new edition with Mekton Zero. They did a Kickstarter, for which I backed. Its behind schedule, but I expect that from any Kickstarter. It should be on shelves some time after the Backers get theirs. Should be worth it.
Kickstarter page and some art from Mark Simmons (someone I'm familiar with from his independent work on Gundam images) here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1888572386/mekton-zero/posts
Quote from: Doughdee222;748686Star Hero? Yeah, that sounds familiar, not sure which edition. I bought a copy of the rules back in the mid 90's I think. I remember it had space ship design rules that allowed for any amount of armor and hit points.
I have a download of the 5th Edition Star Hero, very big on planets and how to build them up as well as construction of solar systems, goes in depth on all the different possible species and kinds of creatures you could make with all different bases for lifeforms.
Quote from: Omega;748687I really like Mekton Zeta and it really shines once you have Plus.
The system is actually pretty straightforward and essentially a point buy system to make about anything you want within the point limit and any setting limits.
It even works for making custom weapons and gear for PCs.
And that is an interesting feature of Mekton. You can use it to make more mundane settings, even a fantasy world with no giant robots.
The setting books were interesting too. The original Algol world, Empire and the later invasion book which I lack.
The link I provided above and that YSIM mentioned goes back to Algol.
-Brandon F.
played Mechwarrior cos I liek the background but peoples comments here on it are spot on.
If I played Mecha now I would use a similar background to Mechwarrior graft it onto my homebrew engine and add my own Mecha creation rules pinched from car wars (ie weight, cost and slots. A chassis can carry x much weight and have x many slots. Armour, weapons, power plant all cost weight slots and money. Chuck all the stuff you can think of into a list and cost out armour etc. then its powerplant vs cost for speed etc)
we did something similar for a space combat engine for the campaign I just ran and it was awesome, largely due to my players who have the time to put my ridiculous ideas into practice (sheet steel covered in felt for the play surface, each ship on an extentable black arial to give height attached by magnets to the play surface and the ships which have a ball and socket joint out to the engine thrust which indicates direction of thrust and velocity.
Robot Warriors by Hero Games was our go-to Mecha RPG. We played the hell out of that game because you could play it as a RPG or a battle game and we did both.
Robot Warriors was published around 1986, so long before Hero became an overwrought mess and overly complicated. I ran RW a couple years ago and it was fun, but I've kinda burnt on point based games for some reason.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;748622Mechwarrior 1 was so clunky I don't even think about it at all. It barely meshed with the tabletop game. I've often wondered if they bought someone's ideas because they wanted an RPG to go with Battletech. IIRC it was largely d6 and occasionally percentile based. Mechwarrior II was more elegant but still had holes big enough to walk an Atlas through. Again, did not mesh well with the mech combat, but was slightly better. d10 based. I ran 3 MW2 modules, two of which were linked and all three were set in the Solaris-7 "game world" (it's the IS in miniature; a giant city with battlemech arenas in each, and five sectors of the city controlled by the 5 "great houses", each with its own culture, etc.) They were all "investigation" Type games that led to big mech fights at the end, so actually not a lot of mech-jock stuff.
While I agree Mechwarrior 1st was super clunky, Mechwarrior 2nd didn't use a d10, that was Mechwarrior 3rd (see http://www.sarna.net/wiki/MechWarrior_(RPG) ). Mechwarrior 2 actually integrated with the tabletop rules best IMHO (also 2d6). I ran a number of games with it (almost all also set on Solaris 7, though not using any modules, but using the Solaris Dueling rules for mech combat). I skipped everything after 2nd because I thought it was a horrible idea to use a d10 for the RPG portion of a wargame that used 2d6. Nowadays I'd just use Traveller, it would be trivial to convert.
As for the Mekton recommendations I keep seeing in this thread, I agree. It's, bar none, the best of the bunch for Mecha games. I also liked Heavy Gear in theory but I never got a chance to play it.
Quote from: The Butcher;748510Who's ever played one? I don't mean "a RPG that has mecha" like Rifts or even Traveller. I mean a RPG in which all or most players play mecha pilots and spend a significant amount of time inside the machines: Mechwarrior, Robotech, Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, Mekton, etc.
What game did you play, and what's the system like?
What does a typical session and/or campaign looks like? Is it a mission-based, military squad deal? Is there a significant amount of play away from the battlefield, outside of the mecha?
I ran a Heavy Gear campaign about 9 years ago. But that doesn't really count in this thread, since I used the Paxton Gambit module. There was only one 'scene' in that campaign that involved mecha combat; the rest was investigation and 'personal-level' firefights.
The only 'true' Mecha rpg I've played was CthulhuTech. A friend ran this Rpg in 2011, and it was an enjoyable experience (though I wasn't a big fan of the system). It was very much a 'mission-based, military squad' type of game, with out-of-mecha experiences while en route to locations on some kind of carrier craft.
Quote from: Spinachcat;748712Robot Warriors by Hero Games was our go-to Mecha RPG. We played the hell out of that game because you could play it as a RPG or a battle game and we did both.
Robot Warriors was published around 1986, so long before Hero became an overwrought mess and overly complicated. I ran RW a couple years ago and it was fun, but I've kinda burnt on point based games for some reason.
Robot Warriors! Yes, that was the name I was searching for, that's what I ran. Damn, I gotta stop posting so late at night, I suffer from CRS. Good to know someone else ran that game. I felt like I was the only one who knew about those rules, never see them anywhere.
I've played Heavy Gear, plus I've got a couple of armies in miniature for it. I haven't played any other dedicated mecha game, although I've considered trying Jovian Chronicles.
I've played Mekton since the blue Mekton book (not quite the first edition, which was a white boxed set). Played a metric ton of it (mek-ton? OK, that was bad).
Mekton II + the Mekton Techbook gives me the most warm-fuzzies, as we played that version more than any other. You can literally do anything with it - after a brief dalliance with the Robotech rpg, we migrated the whole thing over to Mekton II and kept right on trucking.
Jovian Chronicles was, BTW, originally a third-party setting for Mekton II. Typically they're referred to as "The Green Books". I prefer the art and designs from those to the Silhouette version of Jovian Chronicles.
Ironically, when I ran JC using Silhouette we rarely had full-on mecha combats - they were more prevalent in my Heavy Gear games. We ran HG and MZ+ concurrently in two different games for a little while, so I got a good feel for the strengths and weaknesses of both.
Silhouette is an extremely fast system, even running mecha battles. While it has a mecha construction system (outlined in the Jovian Chronicles Companion and later slipstreamed into Silhouette Core), I feel that it works best with designs that use the system as a baseline and are manually tweaked for balance and whatnot. In other words, GM provides the mechs. That said, you can create pretty much anything with it, as long as you don't mind some of the costs (particularly Miscellaneous TV) getting a little wonky.
On the other side, MZ+ has a much more involved constructions system than Silhouette - but it's a lot of fun. It's the type of game where I would (and have) let players create their own mecha - give them some guidelines, then let them go to town. We've actually used Mekton as a big old mech-basher. One time, a friend of mine and I got into a disagreement whether or not a dedicated anti-armor aircraft could beat a single mech so we dragged out the books, set a CP budget, designed the mecha and slugged it out. My anti-armor aircraft won, multiple rounds.
I really wish that there was a really good rules light-medium mecha game, but it just doesn't seem to exist.
And every time someone tacks mecha rules onto another light-medium game it feels just a little off.
Quote from: Emperor Norton;748906I really wish that there was a really good rules light-medium mecha game, but it just doesn't seem to exist.
And every time someone tacks mecha rules onto another light-medium game it feels just a little off.
With the overall popularity of BRP on these boards I expected
someone to have checked out BRP Mecha. No idea how tacked-on the mecha rules for BRP are, nor how light-medium it is.
Quote from: Emperor Norton;748906I really wish that there was a really good rules light-medium mecha game, but it just doesn't seem to exist.
And every time someone tacks mecha rules onto another light-medium game it feels just a little off.
Chris Perrin's Mecha and Remnants are both excellent light-medium mecha games.
Quote from: Emperor Norton;748906I really wish that there was a really good rules light-medium mecha game, but it just doesn't seem to exist.
And every time someone tacks mecha rules onto another light-medium game it feels just a little off.
Basic Mekton II/Zeta is itself fairly rules light/medium, probably erring on the Medium side of the spectrum. Its the separate (and completely optional by the way) Construction Manual books that add the crunch to the game. And that is only in the creating of Mecha. Once a Mecha is made, you are using the normal RPG rules so you are back to the rules medium system.
You DONT have to use the creation books at all. The basic Creation rules that come in the game are fairly complete and will allow you to build just about anything, just without the depth or complexity the more advanced construction guides would give you.
Quote from: Skywalker;748927Chris Perrin's Mecha and Remnants are both excellent light-medium mecha games.
I have Chris Perrin's Mecha, and I actually do like it quite a bit... I think the construction rules are a bit meh though. Mercenaries helps it out, but its still not my ideal Mecha game.
Though my ideal Mecha game might just be a pipe dream anyway.
Quote from: Emperor Norton;748906I really wish that there was a really good rules light-medium mecha game, but it just doesn't seem to exist.
And every time someone tacks mecha rules onto another light-medium game it feels just a little off.
Mekton is actually pretty rules light-medium once you are done with the mech assembly stuff. Moreso if you just use the preconstructed units.
Quote from: Emperor Norton;748950I have Chris Perrin's Mecha, and I actually do like it quite a bit... I think the construction rules are a bit meh though. Mercenaries helps it out, but its still not my ideal Mecha game.
Though my ideal Mecha game might just be a pipe dream anyway.
That's cool :) My own ideal mecha RPG is almost a pipe dream as I am one of the few people who doesn't want to see systems for constructing mecha in my mecha games, despite the two being forever link in most RPGs.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;748928Basic Mekton II/Zeta is itself fairly rules light/medium, probably erring on the Medium side of the spectrum. Its the separate (and completely optional by the way) Construction Manual books that add the crunch to the game. And that is only in the creating of Mecha. Once a Mecha is made, you are using the normal RPG rules so you are back to the rules medium system.
You DONT have to use the creation books at all. The basic Creation rules that come in the game are fairly complete and will allow you to build just about anything, just without the depth or complexity the more advanced construction guides would give you.
Actually, if you want to just completely go nuts you can use MZ+ for the advanced gear and whatnot and just simply ignore calculating tonnage, CP, spaces, etc. Honestly, when I'm designing for a purpose I tend to do crazy shit - for example, when creating Macross mecha I was using space efficiency to make stuff take 0 spaces, using crazy weight efficiency (and inefficiency) and all kinds of stuff. At that point, you might as well just not even bother.
Which, oddly enough, is exactly how Silhouette works. Define that parameters of what the mech can do, build the weapons, and then if you are really feeling like it, calculate the cost.
Did anyone here ever try Spirit Warrior Empire. I gotta say as background goes it's one of the more unique mecha games.
Haven't even heard of that one. I've played Robotech, Mekton II, Heavy Gear, and Jovian Chronicles. Of those, Heavy Gear is far and away my favourite, and our D&D-centric group still refers to one of those HG campaigns as their all time favourite. A lot of that is the Silhouette system, which is a breeze in play, and allows for pretty seamless transitions between personal and Mecha/vehicle scale. In fact, I would've thought that Silhouette meets the light-medium rules criteria mentioned above.
The other thing that really sold me on Heavy Gear was the setting. It's hard-ish sci-fi, and has tons of depth (if you want it) in the supplements, but still leaves plenty of room to make of it what you want with your own campaign. It also allows for a very wide variety of possible campaign types. I can't really recommend it enough.
I really enjoyed Mekton II, and played a lot of Mekton Zeta. Of the two, I actually prefer Mekton II for some reason. Wish I owned it, but it was always on loan to me. There's a copy on Ebay that's whispering my name right now...
Palladium's Robotech was awful. It didn't feel like the shows at all. Overly clunky system for something that was supposed to be fast and fun. I'd like to try the mini's game Palladium just released though...
Battletech was a lot of fun in the day, and I love the setting, but the system was always so slow and ponderous. Plus, being stuck in place while a fast mech wandered behind you was the end of my Battletech love. The Mechwarrior RPGs were very hit and miss.
BESM never worked properly.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;748964Did anyone here ever try Spirit Warrior Empire. I gotta say as background goes it's one of the more unique mecha games.
That was the setting for MECHA! The "miniatures" game, that had some semblance to an RPG, correct?
I recall liking the mecha and the idea. (I think problem with it was that they had these beautifully painted mecha figures, you couldn't get anywhere..)
Quote from: Silverlion;749164That was the setting for MECHA! The "miniatures" game, that had some semblance to an RPG, correct?
I recall liking the mecha and the idea. (I think problem with it was that they had these beautifully painted mecha figures, you couldn't get anywhere..)
That is correct.
Quote from: Coffee Zombie;749102Palladium's Robotech was awful. It didn't feel like the shows at all. Overly clunky system for something that was supposed to be fast and fun. I'd like to try the mini's game Palladium just released though...
Totally agree about Palladium's Robotech. We fixed this with the following house rules which I also posted here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=590629) some time back... posting it again since it worked so well to fix that system, for us anyway.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone in my old group felt that the MDC values were way too high.
The mecha action as shown in the animated series could not be emulated by the MDC system as printed.
Our solution was pretty simple and reflected the importance of various character types from the animation:
- divide mook MDC armour values by 10
- tougher mooks MDC divided by 5
- all 'named' characters' (including PCs) MDC divided by 2
- leave the weapons damage as printed
Effects of this house ruling:
- Battle Pods get taken out with a single hit, and in droves, just like the animation.
- Tougher opponents can survive just long enough to be dangerous, don't underestimate them.
- PCs and named NPCs have abilities that, along with good GMing and playing out imaginative stunts etc, should keep them alive
This worked very well for us and felt true to the animated mecha action.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I'd have to point to Mekton Zeta as my favourite mecha system. Closely followed by Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles.
BRP MECHA will split your play group right in two. It doesn't have a construction system. Instead, you just take the mecha's actual stats (from the shows/mangas fanguides) and convert them over to BRP stats.
My anime fanatic loves it. My roleplay guy says, "What the f**k are you jibberjabbering about?" Take your pick.
Oh, and I played Jovian Chronicles late last year. Much fun was had sneaking up on capital ships.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;748964Did anyone here ever try Spirit Warrior Empire. I gotta say as background goes it's one of the more unique mecha games.
I have that but never found the core MECHA! game. Its an interesting looking system just from whats in the setting book book. And definitly a neet setting.
Quote from: gonster;749281Oh, and I played Jovian Chronicles late last year. Much fun was had sneaking up on capital ships.
How does JC play compared to other games, it looks interesting.
That's a little too open-ended - which other systems? It's very quick in play, with the heaviest thing being the vector-based 2D space movement (not terribly difficult once you get used to it). Scales seamlessly and easily between personal and Mecha scale. Tends to have very little focus on ground-based Mecha battles, although they are quite possible within the setting, and the game includes full rules for such engagements. The Silhouette system generally tends to be deadly, and players who don't learn sound tactics are going to find the system is not for them.
Speaking of Mecha games if you're looking to do a Macross based game regardless of system, you can get miniatures (again)...I guess Palladium now has a shitton of classic Destroids, Variable Fighters and Zentraedi Tactical Pods for sale thanks to a kickstarter...
Quote from: Bobloblah;749556That's a little too open-ended - which other systems? It's very quick in play, with the heaviest thing being the vector-based 2D space movement (not terribly difficult once you get used to it). Scales seamlessly and easily between personal and Mecha scale. Tends to have very little focus on ground-based Mecha battles, although they are quite possible within the setting, and the game includes full rules for such engagements. The Silhouette system generally tends to be deadly, and players who don't learn sound tactics are going to find the system is not for them.
very good summation.
It is a Space setting more than most as most of it is set within the Solar system between the planets. There are rules for for gravity based movement and combat, so you can do battles on the surface or in Colonies.
Of all the Mecha based settings, JC is my favorite as it is mostly inspired by GUNDAM (among others), which is one of my most favorite Anime Mecha series (other being Macross).
Quote from: thedungeondelver;749561Speaking of Mecha games if you're looking to do a Macross based game regardless of system, you can get miniatures (again)...I guess Palladium now has a shitton of classic Destroids, Variable Fighters and Zentraedi Tactical Pods for sale thanks to a kickstarter...
Hopefully soon... The Kickstarter is running behind, but that is to be expected (it being both a Kickstarter and from Palladium...). As a backer we're still waiting for fulfillment.
All told, I'll be getting about 350 miniatures once my shipment arrives... Something I am both looking forward too and dreading... I think I went a bit overboard... Goddamn that will be a LOT of Battlepods...
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;749565Hopefully soon... The Kickstarter is running behind, but that is to be expected (it being both a Kickstarter and from Palladium...). As a backer we're still waiting for fulfillment.
All told, I'll be getting about 350 miniatures once my shipment arrives... Something I am both looking forward too and dreading... I think I went a bit overboard... Goddamn that will be a LOT of Battlepods...
Holy cats, dude.
Also, I never thought I'd say this but I honestly wish KS could also get the rights to the Dougram and Orguss mecha, too, just so Battletech junkies could get their 3025 on again :)
Quote from: thedungeondelver;749567Holy cats, dude.
It was Macross...
DONT JUDGE ME!
;)
Quote from: thedungeondelver;749567Also, I never thought I'd say this but I honestly wish KS could also get the rights to the Dougram and Orguss mecha, too, just so Battletech junkies could get their 3025 on again :)
Dougram would make for a cool minis game since it is in essence a War Story. Orguss is tied up in legal shit from what I've heard.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;749565Hopefully soon... The Kickstarter is running behind, but that is to be expected (it being both a Kickstarter and from Palladium...). As a backer we're still waiting for fulfillment.
All told, I'll be getting about 350 miniatures once my shipment arrives... Something I am both looking forward too and dreading... I think I went a bit overboard... Goddamn that will be a LOT of Battlepods...
I came very, very close to backing this, but I was in up to my eyeballs with other Kickstarters at the time. I've heard some very unfavourable things about this Kickstarter with regards to the delays. What's going on?
Quote from: Bobloblah;749575I came very, very close to backing this, but I was in up to my eyeballs with other Kickstarters at the time. I've heard some very unfavourable things about this Kickstarter with regards to the delays. What's going on?
Kevin.
HA! Care to elaborate?
Quote from: Bobloblah;749590HA! Care to elaborate?
Oh it's just a general dig at KS' management..."style".
Remember this is an effort directed over the internet to use high technology to create quality resin miniatures being directed by a dude who sicced his wife on alt.binaries.books.rpg, and who still proudly uses a wax pin-board to "edit" stuff.
Kevin's a mess, so the Kickstarter being late doesn't surprise me.
Quote from: Bobloblah;749575I came very, very close to backing this, but I was in up to my eyeballs with other Kickstarters at the time. I've heard some very unfavourable things about this Kickstarter with regards to the delays. What's going on?
I think its more a case of "Vocal Minority", and their negativity is pretty vile... I've gotten to the point I stop reading the comments now... This was a pretty ambitious project, and I don't think anyone was fully aware how much work it was going to take. We get weekly or bi-weekly updates, and while slow, there is definite progress. I've invested $750 with this Kickstarter, and I've never felt once that I was being robbed, cheated or lied to. It seems like the most vocal have only spent maybe a 1/3 of what I did and they are acting like they've had their dog raped...
Quote from: thedungeondelver;749581Kevin.
HAHAHA
Sadly, this seems to be some of it. Initially he was only supposed to be there to help Ninja Division with Licensing but seems to be taking a bigger role... At least he is taking a vocal role.
Ninja Division was a new pairing of Sodapop Minis and CoolMiniorNot. But now that they spit (at least on Super Dungeon Explore) ways, I don't know how it affected Ninja Division.
Honestly, I'd be happy to have fulfillment by the end of the Year. A year late for good product is better than shit right now.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;749609Oh it's just a general dig at KS' management..."style".
Remember this is an effort directed over the internet to use high technology to create quality resin miniatures
Actually no. The miniatures are Multipart Polystyrene Plastic kits. IF it was in resin, we'd probably have them by now and probably not the best of quality.... I wouldn't have backed this if it had been in resin... While I like resin better than Metal, it is still not the best to work with.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;749611Actually no. The miniatures are Multipart Polystyrene Plastic kits. IF it was in resin, we'd probably have them by now and probably not the best of quality.... I wouldn't have backed this if it had been in resin... While I like resin better than Metal, it is still not the best to work with.
Dude, whatever.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;749612Dude, whatever.
Sorry, I'm a serious modeler. I can get overly enthused sometimes.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;749614Sorry, I'm a serious modeler. I can get overly enthused sometimes.
No, it's good. I gotcha. No offense taken. :)
Another mecha heartbreaker kickstarter was one that had a guy offering up these almost-but-not-quite Ma.K S.F.3.D. minis, they were perfect, gorgeous minis...and the company collected like $42k on a $5k goal and disappeared down the memory hole. x-(
Of course, like all kickstarters it's all "Oh this is taking longer than we thought...this problem that problem yadda yadda yadda" - and the last communication was in February...
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;749610HAHAHA
Sadly, this seems to be some of it. Initially he was only supposed to be there to help Ninja Division with Licensing but seems to be taking a bigger role... At least he is taking a vocal role.
Ninja Division was a new pairing of Sodapop Minis and CoolMiniorNot. But now that they spit (at least on Super Dungeon Explore) ways, I don't know how it affected Ninja Division.
Honestly, I'd be happy to have fulfillment by the end of the Year. A year late for good product is better than shit right now.
Good luck. KS ruins everything he touches. And he touches everything that comes near his company.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;749565Hopefully soon... The Kickstarter is running behind, but that is to be expected (it being both a Kickstarter and from Palladium...). As a backer we're still waiting for fulfillment.
All told, I'll be getting about 350 miniatures once my shipment arrives... Something I am both looking forward too and dreading... I think I went a bit overboard... Goddamn that will be a LOT of Battlepods...
I'm so jealous. Robotech back when I was a kid was the thing that really made me start obsessing over mecha. I wasn't in a position to back the kickstarter for the minis money wise, and I'm kind of ;_; over that now.
I gamed huge amounts of Mekton back in the day, and I'm considering resurrecting my old Mekton setting on Roll20, in an effort to get into mecha gaming again.
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;749655I gamed huge amounts of Mekton back in the day, and I'm considering resurrecting my old Mekton setting on Roll20, in an effort to get into mecha gaming again.
Nice! Just the system or are you going full on Algol campaign too?
For Mekton II players what do your designs tend to be like?
Back in the day (pre-Techbook), my group's designs were 10 to 20 tons for popcorn mechs, 40/45 tons for light but serious mechs, and a couple of 110 to 120 designs. But most machines were in the 55 to 65 ton range which we considered the sweet spot. Most designs were humanoid without extra appendages like wings, but there were a few beastmecha and what we called "dickmechs" (basically a Gerwalk. The player who made them kept on designing phallic mecha designs).
Nowadays I build mechs with a homebrew hybrid of Mekton II basic construction rules as well as some Techbook and Z Plus mixed in just to make it extra confusing. I have my own custom universal weapon chart which I use instead of the weapon construction rules provided. Overall Costs usually run roughly the same as Techbook designs. The ceiling at the moment is 325 CP with a maximum of 40 points weight efficiency. But so far the only way designs get to the ceiling is by multipliers. Most designs are winged humanoid. Speeds are starting to range about 16 to 20, with one machine able to push a 23 MA and one on the drawing board which will probably have a 24 to 26. Tonnages are most commonly in the range from 60 to 80. ACE and Maneuver Verniers are starting to appear on some designs. The first transformable has been fielded. There's lots of melee weapon use this time around. The most common blade is starting to be what is called a "Nebula Blade" which is a 10K lightsaber weapon. 10K is sort of the unofficial damage ceiling for now.
When I'm doing Mekton, I suppose I end up with a sort of Gundam crossed with Zoids feel to things. There are lots of Gundamesque designs running around with "real robot" beastmecha.
I have played Battletech, Robotech, Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, MECHA, Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles and M&M (they had a anime/mech supplement). Out of all of those, I think Mekton really hits the sweet spot.(The biggest weakness with the Jovian Chronicles setting for Mekton is that for some reason the Pathfinder mech (which PCs are piloting by default as the "good" guys) lacks enough missiles for a true Itano Circus. *sigh*) Math needed for the game is simple addition and subtraction. A non-scientific calculator is very useful for mech construction.
Battletech - Well, Battletech is good for playing Battletech. I started playing with 1st edition when it first came out and fights were pretty much long drug out attrition based slugfests. Battletech is Battletech. Math needed for the game is simple addition and subtraction. A non-scientific calculator is maybe needed for mech construction.
Robotech - Palladium has to be about the worst system to use to run Robotech. The only one I can think of that would be worse would be use Battletech. It was filled with such silliness as Valkyries that have more armor (MDC) than main battle tanks and most destroids. Ummm yeah. KS, I want some of what you are smoking. The only good thing about Robotech is that you could use its books as source material to run it in another game system. Math needed for the game is simple addition and subtraction and there is no mech construction system.
MECHA - I have a little trouble remembering this one. This one with its Aztec style mechs was abstract and weird. It was also supposed to use 1/144 scale robot figures which meant that ranges for weapons... well you would end up using your entire room for a battlefield. Math needed for the game is simple addition and subtraction. A non-scientific calculator is useful for mech construction (maybe?).
Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles - They are good, tight systems, but not without their flaws. The first is that they are deadly. Mooks die in nice fireballs, but then again, so does everyone else. Don't get too attached to any character; one fumbled defense roll and you are most likely dead. The combination of using d6, stat modifiers of up to +3 and damage being based on measures of success was a hard system to tweak to tone down the lethality. It sometimes felt like a wargame that wanted to be a RPG. Math needed for the game is multiplication (for all MoS rolls) and maybe some addition and subtraction. A scientific calculator (for cube roots) is needed for mech construction. The other downside is that I don't think the various threat rating were very accurate, so the construction became, "just wing it." Also gears and mechs started out much simpler than their Mekton counterparts but it didn't take long for their weapons, perks and flaws lists to grow and grow to the point where it was hard to tell which system was more complex than which. Both were really nice settings and the rulebooks had consistently good artwork.
M&M - I tried to get this one started but it always felt that we would be playing superheroes instead. The really needed a supplement dedicated to just the mecha genre.
I tried to set up an Adeptus Evangelion campaign some time ago, but one of my players encountered some health problems and we didn't want to have her miss out since it was her idea, so it fizzled.
Should try giving it another go Miss Lass. I always have trouble with keeping things going myself in my play-by-posts. :)
Quote from: 3rik;748615I've never played or run a mecha game, but I was wondering: has anybody here checked out Alephtar Games' BRP Mecha (http://alephtargames.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=76)? And if so, what did you think of it?
I've got it and have made use of it... but not for a straight up mecha game (which I've never run with any system). I picked it up to flesh out the huge magical constructs in my fantasy campaign... which I'd previously just been winging/handwaving/avoiding, but now there's a war on and those things are going to be making a much bigger showing.
It's not really a gearhead type of supplement full of crunch and formulas, certainly not like GURPS Mecha. It's aimed at a wide variety of mecha... the really plausible stuff on up to God Mazinger (which is where my interest lies).
I like its approach... it's what I needed for my game and the players haven't raised any complaints (anyways, it's not like I described the setup to them as a mecha game, cause it's not).
I'm not sure how a hard-core mecha fan/gearhead would react to it... or if it would satisfy for running something like Appleseed, Votoms or Robotech, but it seems to speak to most of the elements of those.
MZ+ replaces the mecha creation rules in the Zeta corebook, so in that sense it's sort of a revision. I've never used it but I have read through it - it's very comprehensive, and is intended to provide stuff creation rules for all scales (ie. from humans to space dreadnoughts, basically) described in Zeta.
I played way more CP2020 than Zeta, and haven't played either in years, but this thread is making me want to bust it out again. I'm thinking a campaign where the player's have to fight off numerically inferior but far more technologically advanced aliens (I watched Gundam recently and sympathised far more with Zeon than that boring little twot Amuro). Although that might be a bit deadly for the PCs. Hmm.
Quote from: Simlasa;750018I've got it and have made use of it...
Do you feel it's RQ6-compatible?
Quote from: The Butcher;750055Do you feel it's RQ6-compatible?
I'm not familiar enough with RQ6 to make a decent guess at that. If it isn't I'm guessing it wouldn't be a huge amount of work to tweak it so it is.
Quote from: The Butcher;750055Do you feel it's RQ6-compatible?
I'm not familiar enough with RQ6 to make a decent guess at that. If it isn't I wouldn't think it'd be a huge amount of work to tweak it so it is.
This thread is really making me wish Mekton Zero was out right now. The original release date was six months ago, so hopefully it should be soon...
I feel compelled to mention that Space Master (Rolemaster's sci-fi twin) had Battlemech rules in it but they were...not precisely intuitive as I recall.
Im really hanging out for Mekton Zero too!
Quote from: Celestial;750193This thread is really making me wish Mekton Zero was out right now. The original release date was six months ago, so hopefully it should be soon...
Well the PDFs for Mekton Zeta are available for purchase online and the developers say that Zeta material will carry forward.
Boy, if anyone knows of any good sources of nice looking mecha miniatures (like Rackham was going to make at one point), you will be my friend. I am thinking about trying to get some Gundam Converge figures and just use some of the hard to recognize but still cool looking ones. 1/144 models are interesting but they just need too much room to make weapon ranges matter.
Quote from: Celestial;750193This thread is really making me wish Mekton Zero was out right now. The original release date was six months ago, so hopefully it should be soon...
Same here. Same here.
Quote from: zend0g;750526Well the PDFs for Mekton Zeta are available for purchase online and the developers say that Zeta material will carry forward.
Boy, if anyone knows of any good sources of nice looking mecha miniatures (like Rackham was going to make at one point), you will be my friend. I am thinking about trying to get some Gundam Converge figures and just use some of the hard to recognize but still cool looking ones. 1/144 models are interesting but they just need too much room to make weapon ranges matter.
The beauty of 1/144 is that the Gundams are readily available here in Japan, are Japanese N-scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_scale#Japanese_N_scale) railway kits (these are at 1/150). Imagine the scale of the battles....
EDIT: You want something like this. 1/400 scale Gundams on Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/24616988@N06/sets/72157623697957005/detail/).
You could fudge the Battletech rules (or any rules actually), or field them up against other models and pretend they are the right scale.
Quote from: zend0g;750526Well the PDFs for Mekton Zeta are available for purchase online and the developers say that Zeta material will carry forward.
R Talsorian still has hard copies of the core rules for sale too. I bought a copy of MZ+ today since this thread reminded me that I wanted to run a mecha campaign after watching Gundam 0079 last year.
So... MZ experts, has anyone played a campaign that featured a lot of out-of-scale combat? I've had the rules for years after I swapped them for a copy of V:tM 2nd edition, but my Interlock xp is almost entirely with CP2020, so I'm not sure if the following would be a bit too hard on the PCs...
Anyway. While watching Gundam my sympathies mostly lay with the Zeon soldiers because of how hopelessly outclassed they were (also, I watched the Short Peace collection of animated shorts a couple of days ago, which featured a humans vs. mecha slugfest; and I've been making my way through Armour Hunter Mellowlink too), so I'm thinking of a PCs in Roadstrikers vs. alien Mekton sort of campaign. One alien at a time obviously. Any thoughts as to whether the players will be massacred or challenged?
(yes I know that it will mostly depend on how I build the mechs. But if you've tried something like this, let me know how it went, k?)
Quote from: zend0g;750526Well the PDFs for Mekton Zeta are available for purchase online and the developers say that Zeta material will carry forward.
Boy, if anyone knows of any good sources of nice looking mecha miniatures (like Rackham was going to make at one point), you will be my friend. I am thinking about trying to get some Gundam Converge figures and just use some of the hard to recognize but still cool looking ones. 1/144 models are interesting but they just need too much room to make weapon ranges matter.
Other than the 1/144 scale Gundam sets, I really don't know of any others. No one has really done generic mecha models that aren't tied to existing properties.
Quote from: BarefootGaijin;750588The beauty of 1/144 is that the Gundams are readily available here in Japan, are Japanese N-scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_scale#Japanese_N_scale) railway kits (these are at 1/150). Imagine the scale of the battles....
EDIT: You want something like this. 1/400 scale Gundams on Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/24616988@N06/sets/72157623697957005/detail/).
You could fudge the Battletech rules (or any rules actually), or field them up against other models and pretend they are the right scale.
Back when the Heavy Gear minis were in 1/87, we used to play on my friends dads HO scale train set. Made for some awesome fights in actual scale terrain. Getting my Kodiak blown up from a shot taken through the front window of a KFC was awesome.
Quote from: Lord Rocket;750589R Talsorian still has hard copies of the core rules for sale too.
I don't know for sure, but I think R Tal has reprinted some stuff lately. Either that or they emptied out some old stock from a warehouse. There's an odd amount of Like New R Tal stuff floating around the internet lately, and it's stuff which has been somewhat hard to obtain for many years.
Quote from: Lord Rocket;750589R Talsorian still has hard copies of the core rules for sale too. I bought a copy of MZ+ today since this thread reminded me that I wanted to run a mecha campaign after watching Gundam 0079 last year.
So... MZ experts, has anyone played a campaign that featured a lot of out-of-scale combat? I've had the rules for years after I swapped them for a copy of V:tM 2nd edition, but my Interlock xp is almost entirely with CP2020, so I'm not sure if the following would be a bit too hard on the PCs...
Anyway. While watching Gundam my sympathies mostly lay with the Zeon soldiers because of how hopelessly outclassed they were (also, I watched the Short Peace collection of animated shorts a couple of days ago, which featured a humans vs. mecha slugfest; and I've been making my way through Armour Hunter Mellowlink too), so I'm thinking of a PCs in Roadstrikers vs. alien Mekton sort of campaign. One alien at a time obviously. Any thoughts as to whether the players will be massacred or challenged?
(yes I know that it will mostly depend on how I build the mechs. But if you've tried something like this, let me know how it went, k?)
I ran a Genesis Climber Mospeada one-shot at an Anime con once. The team were in Ride-Armor (Roadstrikers), taking on some Inbit. They didn't have any problems with the smaller Eagers, but had to use terrain and Teamwork to take down the single Grob that showed up. Of course, one player got cocky after the fight with the Eagers and tried to take on the Grob solo... After he got pasted, the rest of the team wised up quickly and decided to play it smart.
So yes, different scales can work. Its not just how you build the Mecha, but also in the players acting as a team to take down larger opponents.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;750705So yes, different scales can work. Its not just how you build the Mecha, but also in the players acting as a team to take down larger opponents.
This. Mecha of different scales can be remarkably effective, as long as the Players are using tactics and teamwork.
Sadly I lost all my Mekton notebooks... I'd done conversions for all of the then current GUNDAM series (MS, 080, 083, Zeta, ZZ, F91, and Victory) Mecha. I also did Orguss, Mospeada, Dragonar, and I was working on Macross when I got distracted. Since this was before the internet, and I didn't really have a computer at the time; they were all hand written in notebooks...
I really wish I had them still...
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;751337Sadly I lost all my Mekton notebooks... I'd done conversions for all of the then current GUNDAM series (MS, 080, 083, Zeta, ZZ, F91, and Victory) Mecha. I also did Orguss, Mospeada, Dragonar, and I was working on Macross when I got distracted. Since this was before the internet, and I didn't really have a computer at the time; they were all hand written in notebooks...
I really wish I had them still...
I think I saw the "official" Mekton conversion rules for Gundam. It was interesting. "All powerplants are hot." Yikes! I think I will go with 1/144 scale with Gundam sized figures. Muv-Luv had some nice designs that are still available as it seems that some Gundam ranges are hard to come by. I would really like to scoop up some of the Unicorn range. It is a pity that both Gundam and Muv-Luv mecha don't make use of a lot of missiles, but they have a enough spots where you can just say that they are hidden behind armored panels.
The range of N scale buildings being sold today is very nice. I was surprised to seem companies making N scale office buildings, etc. It's doesn't seem to be your "traditional" railroad hobbyist styled buildings.
How about the Fuzion VOTOMS? Anyone ever play that?
Quote from: thedungeondelver;751377How about the Fuzion VOTOMS? Anyone ever play that?
I looked at it briefly when it came out, sadly I couldn't afford to buy it at the time. I really don't remember much about it, other than it looked a bit more complex than Mekton itself. Honestly, I liked Heavy Gear a lot more than VOTOMS personally, despite the similarities and obvious inspirations. VOTOMS is pretty hardcore military anime series, and isn't always very... fun to watch... It is high up there in the Depress-o-meter. Right up there with Space Runaway Ideon for the angst value...
Quote from: zend0g;751372I think I saw the "official" Mekton conversion rules for Gundam. It was interesting. "All powerplants are hot." Yikes! I think I will go with 1/144 scale with Gundam sized figures. Muv-Luv had some nice designs that are still available as it seems that some Gundam ranges are hard to come by. I would really like to scoop up some of the Unicorn range. It is a pity that both Gundam and Muv-Luv mecha don't make use of a lot of missiles, but they have a enough spots where you can just say that they are hidden behind armored panels.
The range of N scale buildings being sold today is very nice. I was surprised to seem companies making N scale office buildings, etc. It's doesn't seem to be your "traditional" railroad hobbyist styled buildings.
GUNDAM Senki uses a licensed version of Mekton Zeta system... Sadly, we'll never see a translated version...
And yeah, Mecha in GUNDAM tend to go BOOM! Hehe Zaku tend to explode whenever they draw their Heat-hawks...
Similarly, all I can report about VOTOMS is that I previously owned it. I know I read it once, but I'll be damned if I can remember anything about it. I definitely never played it.
I liked the line art. I dimly recall the text mentioning a supplement which never happened. The mech stats looked like they'd work.
Meh. I didn't know anything about VOTOMS when I got the book, and it didn't inspire me to check it out.
Quote from: Gabriel2;751400Meh. I didn't know anything about VOTOMS when I got the book, and it didn't inspire me to check it out.
I got the book because I was a fan, but got rid of it--mostly because I do like building my own mechs. It seemed functional, but honestly, I was just curious how well it did Votoms which seemed "pedestrian" at best.
Functional, but not well..
Quote from: Silverlion;751455I got the book because I was a fan, but got rid of it--mostly because I do like building my own mechs. It seemed functional, but honestly, I was just curious how well it did Votoms which seemed "pedestrian" at best.
Functional, but not well..
Thinking back on it, that was my impression too.
Decided to drop by and pick up a 1/144 and a 1/100 scale Gundam model for research purposes. Yeah. The 1/144 model is bigger than what I remembered and I haven't even put the 1/100 model together yet. If I remember correctly, 1/144 is N scale and 1/100 is HO scale (rough comparison). So I sat down and started converting the movement rates and weapon ranges from hexes to inches... Damnit. Why did I think time would make a math problem go away. Here are some examples:
Weapon Hexes Meters 1/100 1/144
Autocannon 4 200 2m 1.4m
Medium beam gun 7 350 3.5m 2.4m
Missile pod 13 650 6.5m 4.5m
Hexes in Mekton are 50m across. So even the lightest weapon is almost shooting all the way across a tabletop at even 1/144 scale. I am thinking about dividing the base range by 5 and then having combat, effective and then maximum range. One fifth of the old combat range is the new combat range, the old combat range is the new effective range -4 to hit, and maximum range is the same as it used to be but it is now -8 to hit.
I accidentally ran across some gum figures. They're called Mobile Suit Gundam Assault Kingdom. They're still larger than regular minis, but are comparable in size to the MechWarrior Dark Age clicky minis. The RX-93 that I picked up is about 105 mm tall including the fin funnels. Checking online, it looks like there have been several runs of these with various mecha from Gundam represented.
That sounds like the 1/200 models. I would get a little more map room since they are a little smaller, but interestingly they are almost as (or even more) expensive as the 1/144 models. I think the biggest downside is that you lose access to the resources of N scale (or HO if you want to go larger).
I think I will just go with 1/144 as the models are not that expensive and should be easy to get.
I am in the process of building a little research park (https://goo.gl/maps/3IzW7) in N scale to get a feel for everything.
Quote from: zend0g;752280Decided to drop by and pick up a 1/144 and a 1/100 scale Gundam model for research purposes. Yeah. The 1/144 model is bigger than what I remembered and I haven't even put the 1/100 model together yet. If I remember correctly, 1/144 is N scale and 1/100 is HO scale (rough comparison). So I sat down and started converting the movement rates and weapon ranges from hexes to inches... Damnit. Why did I think time would make a math problem go away. Here are some examples:
Weapon Hexes Meters 1/100 1/144
Autocannon 4 200 2m 1.4m
Medium beam gun 7 350 3.5m 2.4m
Missile pod 13 650 6.5m 4.5m
Hexes in Mekton are 50m across. So even the lightest weapon is almost shooting all the way across a tabletop at even 1/144 scale. I am thinking about dividing the base range by 5 and then having combat, effective and then maximum range. One fifth of the old combat range is the new combat range, the old combat range is the new effective range -4 to hit, and maximum range is the same as it used to be but it is now -8 to hit.
One of the reasons that Heavy Gear Blitz, the miniatures wargame, had several revisions was due to this. When it went full miniatures, they had to take Tactical and drop it from 50 meters (you know, I don't know how many of these guys use 50-meter hexes, but I'm thinking the 1990s were ruled by them), and with the new skirmish-scale and true line-of-sight rules, tanks would just go "Knock knock. Who's there? Me, I kill you" BOOM all over the place.
-Brandon F.