I am just curious who out there plays Mech based Games (Battle Tech, Heavy Gear, Mekton, Etc) and what games you play.
What are some of the things you like about a specific system? What are some of the dislikes?
I'm dying to run/play a Battletech campaign (love the setting), and I might get the new edition. I'm a bit wary of the time it takes for mech battles, though...
Quote from: JongWKI'm dying to run/play a Battletech campaign (love the setting), and I might get the new edition. I'm a bit wary of the time it takes for mech battles, though...
Yeah I have the new box set and it is interesting, they have changed a few things (I dont have it with me so I cant give exacts).
Right now the Mecha RPG I have been working on has been the game I have been running (In playtesting sessions) right now.
Trying to tweak the system to keep it fast and deadly (as Mech combat should be).
Do you mean "mecha" or "Anime" games?
Quote from: Dominus NoxDo you mean "mecha" or "Anime" games?
Mecha Games
Me obviously.
Mekton II and Z are my favorites. I like the way character skill explictly and directly impacts ability in the machine. I also like the way armor works and have always found the combat engine to most closely simulate the kinds of things you would see in Robotech or Gundam.
The one flaw? Keeping track of all the different parts of a lot of mechs is a bit time consuming.
Robotech is what I've been stuck playing the most. I like the simplicity of the damage/MDC system. It's inherently quicker to subtract 40 points of damage from 300 hit points than resolve a 6 K hit which ablates 5 K of armor down to 4K and then does 1K of internal structure. Most of the time hit locations are meaningless in Robotech, which hampers simulation but speeds play. I'm also a fan of the phased combat system and the way it affects the flow of battle.
There's much more than one flaw to Robotech, so I'll just stop at the positives.
I've tried BESM mecha (BRCS), Silhouette, and had a little bit of exposure to D20 mecha. I don't feel they handle mechs well at all. BESM is the one I think does the worst job.
I have a PDF preview of the mecha engine for Random Anime, but have never gotten around to looking at it.
The D20 Future implementation of mecha definitely screamed of the Americanized version of big stompy unmaneuverable machines, and the idea that you just need to keep on getting bigger machines while the pilot is mostly baggage.
There's some Fudge mecha RPG which I haven't been able to snag yet. I believe it's called Mecha Aces, or something like that.
Quote from: GabrielMe obviously.
I was waiting for you to chime in :D
Quote from: GabrielMekton II and Z are my favorites. I like the way character skill explictly and directly impacts ability in the machine. I also like the way armor works and have always found the combat engine to most closely simulate the kinds of things you would see in Robotech or Gundam.
The one flaw? Keeping track of all the different parts of a lot of mechs is a bit time consuming.
Yep, running a Mekton Game was a great deal of work. That's part of the reason I moved away from it
Quote from: GabrielRobotech is what I've been stuck playing the most. I like the simplicity of the damage/MDC system. It's inherently quicker to subtract 40 points of damage from 300 hit points than resolve a 6 K hit which ablates 5 K of armor down to 4K and then does 1K of internal structure. Most of the time hit locations are meaningless in Robotech, which hampers simulation but speeds play. I'm also a fan of the phased combat system and the way it affects the flow of battle.
There's much more than one flaw to Robotech, so I'll just stop at the positives.
Had Robotech so you wouldnt tell me anything I dont already know
Quote from: GabrielI've tried BESM mecha (BRCS), Silhouette, and had a little bit of exposure to D20 mecha. I don't feel they handle mechs well at all. BESM is the one I think does the worst job.
I had BESM and while I never tried a Mecha Game what you are saying is not suprising
Quote from: GabrielI have a PDF preview of the mecha engine for Random Anime, but have never gotten around to looking at it.
When you do let me know what you find
Quote from: GabrielThe D20 Future implementation of mecha definitely screamed of the Americanized version of big stompy unmaneuverable machines, and the idea that you just need to keep on getting bigger machines while the pilot is mostly baggage.
D20 didnt come across to me as a system that could do it. I am no expert on the system so maybe someone can get it to work, from what I saw from the rpg supplement that I saw I wasnt even going to give it a try.
Quote from: GabrielThere's some Fudge mecha RPG which I haven't been able to snag yet. I believe it's called Mecha Aces, or something like that.
Again, if you do get it let me know what you come up with.
I am a big fan of Mecha RPGS (Clearly) and I love to play different Mecha RPGS as well as taking the good and the bad from other Mecha Games and incorporate them into the Mecha Game I designed (and have constantly tweaked).
It has changed a great deal from the 1st revision, improving from the good and bad I have seen from other games as well as tons of playtesting (I designed it some time ago but it has playtested a greatr deal).
I love mecha rpg's, I adore Mekton a great deal (2 and Z) and I rather liked BESM though for its simplicity. I love the look and feel of Heavy Gears art, but cant's tand the world or system (i've a friend whose a die hard fan and asked to play...it was odd and had hiccups that made it unwelcome to me to attempt regularly.)
I'm working on my own Mecha game using a card driven dual use system so that PC's and mecha use the same rules for most everything. Its just a matter of scaling.
Quote from: SilverlionI'm working on my own Mecha game using a card driven dual use system so that PC's and mecha use the same rules for most everything. Its just a matter of scaling.
Yeah. Well to say I am working on a Mecha game is an understatment. It's a game I created awhile ago and have been tweaking and improving.
Its Mecha but not in an Anime setting. It's become better and better as the tweaks happen.
I am finishing up the latest revision and then it will be playtest time again. It may actually be at a point where I can quit tweaking it (at least for awhile).
I own and ran a pretty fun Mekton Z campaign a few years ago now. Maybe I'll drag it our again someday, I do have a soft spot for the giant robots.
I'm using HERO to build my own mechs. A scifi postwar scenario with a mech-warrior / cold war flavor. Mech combat is not the sole feature of the game, but certainly always an option.
Not since I played Robotech/RIFTSS, the last time being about 12 years ago.
But when I was a teenager, those were my standard games. Robotech was the first serious game I personally ran a campaign of, and I have nothing but very fond memories of it.
RPGPundit
I haven't played Robotech in a long while, but also have some great memories of our campaigns. A lot of Rifts games certainly end up with mecha elements in them, and I'd say that's as close as I get these days...with the possible exception of some Fantasy Steampunk Mecha in Iron Kingdoms...
Quote from: MechnomancerI'm using HERO to build my own mechs. A scifi postwar scenario with a mech-warrior / cold war flavor. Mech combat is not the sole feature of the game, but certainly always an option.
As a Hero fan I would think it would be pretty difficult to do with the system. How is Mecha Buliding with Hero?
Quote from: RPGPunditBut when I was a teenager, those were my standard games. Robotech was the first serious game I personally ran a campaign of, and I have nothing but very fond memories of it.
RPGPundit
I had Robotech as well and while it was OK I felt it did a poor job of emulating the Genre. I was able to have fun with what I had and thinking back I was not as "Game Savy" then as I am now so my memories may be a bit skewed.
It makes me sad that Palladium may get the license back because all they will do is cut and paste the old material.
I would love to see another company get Robotech and get it the right treatment.
I played the crap out of pre-Clan BattleTech. I still love the game and the setting. The rules were clean and the House setting books described a fabulously rich background that would be useable for all sorts of non-mecha sci-fi gaming as well. I played some Mechwarrior first edition but it fell kinda flat for my group.
In college a good friend introduced me to Mekton Z. I adore the Zeta Plus construction rules. I ran one fun game with it and would like to do it again. My plan is to run a convention one-shot using Mekton Z to power a Uresia game centered around the Emerald Knights. I only run one prep-intensive game per con and I can't make up my mind whether next con I go to will be this game or FUDGE: The Prisoner. I'm dying to do both but I think they would both suffer if I attempted them at one con.
My next 2-6 session mini-campaign will be a mecha adventure using BESMd20. I've always wanted to try those rules and my players and I want to do something sci-fi before jumping into another lengthy D&D campaign.
Quote from: Geek MessiahYep, running a Mekton Game was a great deal of work. That's part of the reason I moved away from it
I find that Mekton is front loaded with lots of GM work, but goes much easier once the groundwork is taken care of. This is the reason why my group didn't just stick with Mekton (we were already playing 1st edition) when Robotech came out. In Robotech the mechs were pre-made. We just made up characters, and that work was spread out. With Mekton the GM would have had to stat out a significant number of mecha up front.
There have been two campaigns where we've gotten beyond that point. A friend of mine ran an invasion earth type campaign a long time ago, and it ran long enough that he had a significant stable of enemies to use. Meanwhile, I had been given the job of arming the Earth resistance, and had quite a few designs human defenders could access.
Then there was the campaign I ran which was called "CyberMekton." I was bored to tears because every adventure tended to boil down to a mechfight, then a street gunfight, and then working on repairing and modifying mechs. The players loved it for some reason, though. In any event, I used the mechs I had made for my friend's campaign and added more. After that, I just left new designs to my players, who were doing insane things like taking a mech which was a copy of a Macross Tomahawk/Excalibur and converting it into a beastmech. To this day I don't know how that was supposed to work, but the player was enthusiastic and made bad ass design and tech rolls. But, because of the ease of satisfying them with random gunfights, and their doing all the later design work, I had very little prep time for that campaign after I started it.
If there's one thing I really regret, it's that I threw away my notebook of designs somewhere along the line.
Off topic, I have a Mekton II rules question for whoever cares to hazard a guess. Do hands take up a space in the arm in the basic M2 design system?
I've always assumed they took a space, like any other weapon component. But the chart says "add to base arm cost" which kind of implies the hand doesn't take a space and merely becomes a feature of the arm you paid for. Also, hands are not mentioned in the list of acceptable things to put in arm spaces, further tending to confirm the idea that hands don't take spaces.
Gabriel,
I know what you are saying. I dont mind having to do game prep but when the game prep becomes too top heavy then it becomes a real problem.
With my Mech Game its a Mech game set in a military situation/background. The main book has the good mechs and enemy mechs stated up. With the new edition I am going to also add disposable "bad guys" the use as well as have rules for creating bad guys.
I want to do everything I can to help cut the workload down so people can spend more time playing and having fun.
QuoteAs a Hero fan I would think it would be pretty difficult to do with the system. How is Mecha Buliding with Hero?
Ultimate Vehicle helps, but i just stripped it down to the core essential. Seriously what do you need? movement, speed, weapons, armor, agility, and sensors. done.
Quote from: Geek MessiahAs a Hero fan I would think it would be pretty difficult to do with the system. How is Mecha Buliding with Hero?
Having tried a couple of 'mech' games with HERO, I have to agree with you. HERO produces very soulless Mechs at best.
However things might be improved using newer house rules for vechicle defense and weapons that I have up on my website. Those move HERO away from it's highly random damage resolution to something more fitting armored vehicle combat.
This would result in a very 'modern armor' feel as weapons are ineffective or down immediately life-ending.
Hmm. You're likely not interested, but here's the path:
http://home.comcast.net/~b.gleichman/
Check under Real World Conversions:
- Heavy Weapons
- Vehicle Armor
I don't know if it's really very different, but there's also Robot Warriors (1986) which uses a modified version of the Hero rules.
Quote from: GabrielI don't know if it's really very different, but there's also Robot Warriors (1986) which uses a modified version of the Hero rules.
It basically took the 5 pts = double effect and turned it into Mass doubling for sub-systems. You then used that mass to 'fill' your Mech.
This of course produced the classical HERO result of a 100 ton mech tossing only 1 DC more than a 50 ton Mech (simplified actually, but you get the idea). It didn't work for me, and I was very sad.
Other than that, it didn't make many changes for the period (no more than other genre specific HERO products).
Quote from: MechnomancerUltimate Vehicle helps, but i just stripped it down to the core essential. Seriously what do you need? movement, speed, weapons, armor, agility, and sensors. done.
Yeah, I guess that works. Since I only have Hero 4 these days (Sold Hero 5 because while I love the system I cant get people to play) I probably would never get around to even trying to create a Mech with Hero.
Quote from: gleichmanHaving tried a couple of 'mech' games with HERO, I have to agree with you. HERO produces very soulless Mechs at best.
However things might be improved using newer house rules for vechicle defense and weapons that I have up on my website. Those move HERO away from it's highly random damage resolution to something more fitting armored vehicle combat.
This would result in a very 'modern armor' feel as weapons are ineffective or down immediately life-ending.
Hmm. You're likely not interested, but here's the path:
http://home.comcast.net/~b.gleichman/
Check under Real World Conversions:
- Heavy Weapons
- Vehicle Armor
I appreciate the link and I will in fact check it out. I am (as I said) tweaking my Mecha RPG and I will take a look at some of the information and possiably incorporate it into my game while I am doing this revision.
QuoteHaving tried a couple of 'mech' games with HERO, I have to agree with you. HERO produces very soulless Mechs at best.
I've yet to find a game that come with prefabricated soulless options. I usually have to provide the soul with story telling. Personally i'd like a system with a many bells and whistles as could be stuffed into an Atlas, but my players won't go for it. They prefer the more video-game approach i outline above. less work to crate, but more work to immerse.
Quote from: Geek MessiahI appreciate the link and I will in fact check it out. I am (as I said) tweaking my Mecha RPG and I will take a look at some of the information and possiably incorporate it into my game while I am doing this revision.
One can't ask for more. I'd be interested to see what you finally come up with.
For myself, I'd like to see the following characteristics:
1. Different damage resolutions systems for Mechs as opposed to characters.
2. Non-ablative armor (hate battletech for their machines can destory anything mindset) that matches weapon penetration to armor effectiveness to determine damage.
3. Good hit location system that allows penetrating attacks to impair mech function in realistic ways.
4. Pilots getting injured or stunned by attacks, perhaps by way of feedback (allows the classic case where the pilot goes unconscious but can wake up later with a 'functioning' mech).
5. Mech techonology scale that allows for a range of different campaigns from simple "powered skeletons" to vera-techs to magical combo mechs. I like one stop game systems for an entire genre.
Simple huh?
Quote from: gleichmanOne can't ask for more. I'd be interested to see what you finally come up with.
I am not sure if you saw when I had said before that this game was designed some time ago and has just been going through playtesting and revisions. I am simply doing a revision of a game that was designed awhile ago. Just letting you know in case you missed it (You are human, it happens to the best of us) :D
I would be more then happy to let you know what some of the final characteristics of the game is. Souless Mecha design? Not with this system.
Quote from: gleichmanFor myself, I'd like to see the following characteristics:
I will tackle these point by point
Quote from: gleichman1. Different damage resolutions systems for Mechs as opposed to characters.
This has already been done and was actually handled in the first revisions/editions of the game. There is "Mech" Damage and "People" Damage (yes, in the game it is discribed more eoquently then that :D )
Quote from: gleichman2. Non-ablative armor (hate battletech for their machines can destory anything mindset) that matches weapon penetration to armor effectiveness to determine damage.
The Mechs in the game are not "One hit Kills" and they can take a lot of punishment, but not so much that it is unrealistic. Still, in this revision I am going to polish it a bit
Quote from: gleichman3. Good hit location system that allows penetrating attacks to impair mech function in realistic ways.
Already have this in place where internal damage does in fact impair the Mech. Like the above point it needs refining (it hasnt been refined in some time). Nothing much, just a tweak here and there
Quote from: gleichman4. Pilots getting injured or stunned by attacks, perhaps by way of feedback (allows the classic case where the pilot goes unconscious but can wake up later with a 'functioning' mech).
Pilots can be killed and injured by not stunned. This is a very good point and goes on my lists of "Things to Tweak" in the game.
Quote from: gleichman5. Mech techonology scale that allows for a range of different campaigns from simple "powered skeletons" to vera-techs to magical combo mechs. I like one stop game systems for an entire genre.
Simple huh?
In my game there are Mechs that are just Mechs, Mechs that transform into different vehicles (A fighter or a Hovercraft Vehicle) as well as a "powered Skeleton" like vehicle that when internal damage happens its the pilot that is taken the damage.
Again this is something I want to revisit and improve. All and All the game has really grown from it's roots. My lead playtester who loves to find holes is even admitting that the holes are hard to find if they are there.
I can't even guess the many hours of playtesting this game has gotten but I would imagine that it is more then 100 hours. I run the game not just about Mech combat but with dealing with things on the ground, putting the characters in the situation where they have to get out of their mechs.
And since the game has a military background (Characters are in the military) there are non Mech related careers and plenty to do. I have a bunch to expand on and I have an ever growing list but as I expand on areas of the game it just gets better.
Quote from: Geek MessiahAgain this is something I want to revisit and improve. All and All the game has really grown from it's roots. My lead playtester who loves to find holes is even admitting that the holes are hard to find if they are there.
I can't even guess the many hours of playtesting this game has gotten but I would imagine that it is more then 100 hours. I run the game not just about Mech combat but with dealing with things on the ground, putting the characters in the situation where they have to get out of their mechs.
It's sounding very nice and it appears you're covering ground that needs to be covered.
I don't recall it being mentioned in the thread, is this going to be a for sale game, home rules, or free rpg?
Quote from: gleichmanIt's sounding very nice and it appears you're covering ground that needs to be covered.
I am trying to playtest it to the fullest to create the best possiable game.
Quote from: gleichmanI don't recall it being mentioned in the thread,
I may have discussed it in the Robotech thread and not this one and I mixed the two up. As I said, happens to the best of us :D
Quote from: gleichmanis this going to be a for sale game, home rules, or free rpg?
I am not sure about this right now. As the market is way too flooded I am not sure if putting the game on the market is a good idea. It may be used for Home Rules and after all the work put into it I just cannot see giving it away for free.
Not saying I would never do a free game or that I am against them, this game just has a special place in my heart (If that makes sense).
Quote from: Geek MessiahI am not sure about this right now. As the market is way too flooded I am not sure if putting the game on the market is a good idea. It may be used for Home Rules and after all the work put into it I just cannot see giving it away for free.
Not saying I would never do a free game or that I am against them, this game just has a special place in my heart (If that makes sense).
It make a great deal of sense, especially to me.
I've always wanted a good mech game and it just doesn't exist. And I won't split time from my other projects to make my own. So if you ever do make it public, it'll be one that I'll be looking forward to.
Quote from: gleichmanIt make a great deal of sense, especially to me.
I've always wanted a good mech game and it just doesn't exist. And I won't split time from my other projects to make my own. So if you ever do make it public, it'll be one that I'll be looking forward to.
Thanks for the kind words.
I will keep polishing it up and when its ready make a decision then (Maybe the market will be in a better shape) and I will make it public. My playtesters all think I should
I had a little bit of a lull where I couldnt get back into working on my Mecha RPG and all of this discussion on Mechs and Mech RPG really got me excited about it again.
Quote from: Geek MessiahI had a little bit of a lull where I couldnt get back into working on my Mecha RPG and all of this discussion on Mechs and Mech RPG really got me excited about it again.
It will do that.
I'll likely be doing some long needed work on my Fantasy game as a result of my visit to these forums. I think it's a case of sparking old thoughts back to life.
Quote from: gleichmanIt will do that.
I'll likely be doing some long needed work on my Fantasy game as a result of my visit to these forums. I think it's a case of sparking old thoughts back to life.
I am going to spend this weekend really tackling things. Things already on my list and things that are now going on my list because of this conversation.
The game has come along way and I am very happy with the results.
Quote from: gleichmanOne can't ask for more. I'd be interested to see what you finally come up with.
For myself, I'd like to see the following characteristics:
1. Different damage resolutions systems for Mechs as opposed to characters.
2. Non-ablative armor (hate battletech for their machines can destory anything mindset) that matches weapon penetration to armor effectiveness to determine damage.
3. Good hit location system that allows penetrating attacks to impair mech function in realistic ways.
4. Pilots getting injured or stunned by attacks, perhaps by way of feedback (allows the classic case where the pilot goes unconscious but can wake up later with a 'functioning' mech).
5. Mech techonology scale that allows for a range of different campaigns from simple "powered skeletons" to vera-techs to magical combo mechs. I like one stop game systems for an entire genre.
Simple huh?
In the interest of romanticizing mechs, limited sapience is always good.
The same goes for pseudoreligious themes like those found in animes Neon Genesis Evangelion or Big O.
Also consider non-tech mechs. Mechs work great as relics of older, more advanced societies in fantasy settings.
Or you could have mechs be the hollowed, reanimated corpses of dead deities.
Or you could have "metaphysical" mechs that are visible forcefield projections of characters' will (allowing characters to take their mechs with them anywhere).
It would just be cool to see something non-traditional.
Quote from: beejazzIn the interest of romanticizing mechs, limited sapience is always good.
The same goes for pseudoreligious themes like those found in animes Neon Genesis Evangelion or Big O.
Also consider non-tech mechs. Mechs work great as relics of older, more advanced societies in fantasy settings. Or you could have mechs be the hollowed, reanimated corpses of dead deities. Or you could have "metaphysical" mechs that are visible forcefield projections of characters' will (allowing characters to take their mechs with them anywhere).
It would just be cool to see something non-traditional.
I could have sworn I have seen a game like that (But I might be wrong). That's really not what I am going for. I am going for the Military/Non-Anime version of Mecha