I played the crap out of pre-Clan BattleTech.  I still love the game and the setting.  The rules were clean and the House setting books described a fabulously rich background that would be useable for all sorts of non-mecha sci-fi gaming as well.  I played some Mechwarrior first edition but it fell kinda flat for my group.

In college a good friend introduced me to Mekton Z.  I adore the Zeta Plus construction rules.  I ran one fun game with it and would like to do it again.  My plan is to run a convention one-shot using Mekton Z to power a Uresia game centered around the Emerald Knights.  I only run one prep-intensive game per con and I can't make up my mind whether next con I go to will be this game or FUDGE: The Prisoner.  I'm dying to do both but I think they would both suffer if I attempted them at one con.

My next 2-6 session mini-campaign will be a mecha adventure using BESMd20.  I've always wanted to try those rules and my players and I want to do something sci-fi before jumping into another lengthy D&D campaign.

Quote from: Geek MessiahYep, running a Mekton Game was a great deal of work.   That's part of the reason I moved away from it

I find that Mekton is front loaded with lots of GM work, but goes much easier once the groundwork is taken care of.  This is the reason why my group didn't just stick with Mekton (we were already playing 1st edition) when Robotech came out.  In Robotech the mechs were pre-made.  We just made up characters, and that work was spread out.  With Mekton the GM would have had to stat out a significant number of mecha up front.

There have been two campaigns where we've gotten beyond that point.  A friend of mine ran an invasion earth type campaign a long time ago, and it ran long enough that he had a significant stable of enemies to use.  Meanwhile, I had been given the job of arming the Earth resistance, and had quite a few designs human defenders could access.

Then there was the campaign I ran which was called "CyberMekton."  I was bored to tears because every adventure tended to boil down to a mechfight, then a street gunfight, and then working on repairing and modifying mechs.  The players loved it for some reason, though.  In any event, I used the mechs I had made for my friend's campaign and added more.  After that, I just left new designs to my players, who were doing insane things like taking a mech which was a copy of a Macross Tomahawk/Excalibur and converting it into a beastmech.  To this day I don't know how that was supposed to work, but the player was enthusiastic and made bad ass design and tech rolls.  But, because of the ease of satisfying them with random gunfights, and their doing all the later design work, I had very little prep time for that campaign after I started it.

If there's one thing I really regret, it's that I threw away my notebook of designs somewhere along the line.  

Off topic, I have a Mekton II rules question for whoever cares to hazard a guess.  Do hands take up a space in the arm in the basic M2 design system?

I've always assumed they took a space, like any other weapon component.  But the chart says "add to base arm cost" which kind of implies the hand doesn't take a space and merely becomes a feature of the arm you paid for.  Also, hands are not mentioned in the list of acceptable things to put in arm spaces, further tending to confirm the idea that hands don't take spaces.

Gabriel,

I know what you are saying.   I dont mind having to do game prep but when the game prep becomes too top heavy then it becomes a real problem.

With my Mech Game its a Mech game set in a military situation/background.   The main book has the good mechs and enemy mechs stated up.   With the new edition I am going to also add disposable "bad guys" the use as well as have rules for creating bad guys.

I want to do everything I can to help cut the workload down so people can spend more time playing and having fun.

QuoteAs a Hero fan I would think it would be pretty difficult to do with the system. How is Mecha Buliding with Hero?

Ultimate Vehicle helps, but i just stripped it down to the core essential.    Seriously what do you need?  movement, speed, weapons, armor, agility, and sensors.  done.

Quote from: Geek MessiahAs a Hero fan I would think it would be pretty difficult to do with the system.   How is Mecha Buliding with Hero?

Having tried a couple of 'mech' games with HERO, I have to agree with you. HERO produces very soulless Mechs at best.

However things might be improved using newer house rules for vechicle defense and weapons that I have up on my website. Those move HERO away from it's highly random damage resolution to something more fitting armored vehicle combat.

This would result in a very 'modern armor' feel as weapons are ineffective or down immediately life-ending.


Hmm. You're likely not interested, but here's the path:

http://home.comcast.net/~b.gleichman/

Check under Real World Conversions:
- Heavy Weapons
- Vehicle Armor

I don't know if it's really very different, but there's also Robot Warriors (1986) which uses a modified version of the Hero rules.

Quote from: GabrielI don't know if it's really very different, but there's also Robot Warriors (1986) which uses a modified version of the Hero rules.

It basically took the 5 pts = double effect and turned it into Mass doubling for sub-systems. You then used that mass to 'fill' your Mech.

This of course produced the classical HERO result of a 100 ton mech tossing only 1 DC more than a 50 ton Mech (simplified actually, but you get the idea). It didn't work for me, and I was very sad.


Other than that, it didn't make many changes for the period (no more than other genre specific HERO products).

Quote from: MechnomancerUltimate Vehicle helps, but i just stripped it down to the core essential.    Seriously what do you need?  movement, speed, weapons, armor, agility, and sensors.  done.

Yeah, I guess that works.   Since I only have Hero 4 these days (Sold Hero 5 because while I love the system I cant get people to play) I probably would never get around to even trying to create a Mech with Hero.

Quote from: gleichmanHaving tried a couple of 'mech' games with HERO, I have to agree with you. HERO produces very soulless Mechs at best.

However things might be improved using newer house rules for vechicle defense and weapons that I have up on my website. Those move HERO away from it's highly random damage resolution to something more fitting armored vehicle combat.

This would result in a very 'modern armor' feel as weapons are ineffective or down immediately life-ending.


Hmm. You're likely not interested, but here's the path:

http://home.comcast.net/~b.gleichman/

Check under Real World Conversions:
- Heavy Weapons
- Vehicle Armor

I appreciate the link and I will in fact check it out.   I am (as I said) tweaking my Mecha RPG and I will take a look at some of the information and possiably incorporate it into my game while I am doing this revision.

QuoteHaving tried a couple of 'mech' games with HERO, I have to agree with you. HERO produces very soulless Mechs at best.

I've yet to find a game that come with prefabricated soulless options.  I usually have to provide the soul with story telling.  Personally i'd like a system with a many bells and whistles as could be stuffed into an Atlas, but my players won't go for it.  They prefer the more video-game approach i outline above.  less work to crate, but more work to immerse.

Quote from: Geek MessiahI appreciate the link and I will in fact check it out.   I am (as I said) tweaking my Mecha RPG and I will take a look at some of the information and possiably incorporate it into my game while I am doing this revision.

One can't ask for more. I'd be interested to see what you finally come up with.


For myself, I'd like to see the following characteristics:

1. Different damage resolutions systems for Mechs as opposed to characters.
2. Non-ablative armor (hate battletech for their machines can destory anything mindset) that matches weapon penetration to armor effectiveness to determine damage.
3. Good hit location system that allows penetrating attacks to impair mech function in realistic ways.
4. Pilots getting injured or stunned by attacks, perhaps by way of feedback (allows the classic case where the pilot goes unconscious but can wake up later with a 'functioning' mech).
5. Mech techonology scale that allows for a range of different campaigns from simple "powered skeletons" to vera-techs to magical combo mechs. I like one stop game systems for an entire genre.


Simple huh?

Quote from: gleichmanOne can't ask for more. I'd be interested to see what you finally come up with.

I am not sure if you saw when I had said before that this game was designed some time ago and has just been going through playtesting and revisions.    I am simply doing a revision of a game that was designed awhile ago.  Just letting you know in case you missed it (You are human, it happens to the best of us)

I would be more then happy to let you know what some of the final characteristics of the game is.   Souless Mecha design?   Not with this system.

Quote from: gleichmanFor myself, I'd like to see the following characteristics:

I will tackle these point by point

Quote from: gleichman1. Different damage resolutions systems for Mechs as opposed to characters.

This has already been done and was actually handled in the first revisions/editions of the game.   There is "Mech" Damage and "People" Damage (yes, in the game it is discribed more eoquently then that   )

Quote from: gleichman2. Non-ablative armor (hate battletech for their machines can destory anything mindset) that matches weapon penetration to armor effectiveness to determine damage.

The Mechs in the game are not "One hit Kills" and they can take a lot of punishment, but not so much that it is unrealistic.   Still, in this revision I am going to polish it a bit

Quote from: gleichman3. Good hit location system that allows penetrating attacks to impair mech function in realistic ways.

Already have this in place where internal damage does in fact impair the Mech.   Like the above point it needs refining (it hasnt been refined in some time).   Nothing much, just a tweak here and there

Quote from: gleichman4. Pilots getting injured or stunned by attacks, perhaps by way of feedback (allows the classic case where the pilot goes unconscious but can wake up later with a 'functioning' mech).

Pilots can be killed and injured by not stunned.   This is a very good point and goes on my lists of "Things to Tweak" in the game.

Quote from: gleichman5. Mech techonology scale that allows for a range of different campaigns from simple "powered skeletons" to vera-techs to magical combo mechs. I like one stop game systems for an entire genre.

Simple huh?

In my game there are Mechs that are just Mechs, Mechs that transform into different vehicles (A fighter or a Hovercraft Vehicle) as well as a "powered Skeleton" like vehicle that when internal damage happens its the pilot that is taken the damage.

Again this is something I want to revisit and improve.   All and All the game has really grown from it's roots.   My lead playtester who loves to find holes is even admitting that the holes are hard to find if they are there.

I can't even guess the many hours of playtesting this game has gotten but I would imagine that it is more then 100 hours.   I run the game not just about Mech combat but with dealing with things on the ground, putting the characters in the situation where they have to get out of their mechs.

And since the game has a military background (Characters are in the military) there are non Mech related careers and plenty to do.  I have a bunch to expand on and I have an ever growing list but as I expand on areas of the game it just gets better.

Quote from: Geek MessiahAgain this is something I want to revisit and improve.   All and All the game has really grown from it's roots.   My lead playtester who loves to find holes is even admitting that the holes are hard to find if they are there.

I can't even guess the many hours of playtesting this game has gotten but I would imagine that it is more then 100 hours.   I run the game not just about Mech combat but with dealing with things on the ground, putting the characters in the situation where they have to get out of their mechs.

It's sounding very nice and it appears you're covering ground that needs to be covered.

I don't recall it being mentioned in the thread, is this going to be a for sale game, home rules, or free rpg?

Quote from: gleichmanIt's sounding very nice and it appears you're covering ground that needs to be covered.

I am  trying to playtest it to the fullest to create the best possiable game.

Quote from: gleichmanI don't recall it being mentioned in the thread,

I may have discussed it in the Robotech thread and not this one and I mixed the two up.   As I said, happens to the best of us

Quote from: gleichmanis this going to be a for sale game, home rules, or free rpg?

I am not sure about this right now.   As the market is way too flooded I am not sure if putting the game on the market is a good idea.   It may be used for Home Rules and after all the work put into it I just cannot see giving it away for free.

Not saying I would never do a free game or that I am against them, this game just has a special place in my heart (If that makes sense).

Quote from: Geek MessiahI am not sure about this right now.   As the market is way too flooded I am not sure if putting the game on the market is a good idea.   It may be used for Home Rules and after all the work put into it I just cannot see giving it away for free.

Not saying I would never do a free game or that I am against them, this game just has a special place in my heart (If that makes sense).

It make a great deal of sense, especially to me.



I've always wanted a good mech game and it just doesn't exist. And I won't split time from my other projects to make my own. So if you ever do make it public, it'll be one that I'll be looking forward to.