Quote from: Exploderwizard;630271This is because whiny entitled assholes are not happy merely getting what they want, it MUST come with the caveat that no one else can have what they want.

Any current version of D&D MUST have all the required bells & whistles baked into the core game or else the unthinkable might happen.

Thier GM might want to try running a game without all that crap and holy fuck!! It just might be official D&D that way and that is intolerable.

So you're saying you're a whiny entitled asshole who is not happy getting what you want.  You also need to make sure the other whiny entitled assholes don't get what they want.

At least someone is honest.

Quote from: Sommerjon;630273So you're saying you're a whiny entitled asshole who is not happy getting what you want.  You also need to make sure the other whiny entitled assholes don't get what they want.

At least someone is honest.

:rotfl:

I don't really care if the D&D that I play is "official" or not. The next version of the game can feature whatever healing WOTC feels will fit best and I will continue playing whatever version of the game suits my needs best.

Quote from: Sommerjon;630273So you're saying you're a whiny entitled asshole who is not happy getting what you want.  You also need to make sure the other whiny entitled assholes don't get what they want.

Oh Joy.  You're here now with your stellar contribution as normal.

QuoteAt least someone is honest.

And it's not you.  I'm not sure how many more times people need to explain this very important difference to you, but I'll give it a go one more time.

Proponents of a basic version of Next (such as myself) are NOT saying that the game must not have all these bells and whistles. In fact, we've pointed out several times that those bells and whistles should be available to those who want it.  The difference, and pay close attention here, is that the butthurt folks over at TPB want the core game to include all the bells and whistles from the get go.

Can you see the difference there?  We are not saying anyone else shouldn't get what they want.  Give them what they want.  But don't make it mandatory for everyone else.

I swear to God, has WoTC put out an article yet that Lizard hasn't immediately bitched about?  At this point I'd treat this like I do with my kids.  If you have nothing to say but put downs all this time from the very start, then go do something else.  If you hate every single thing about this, why are you wasting your time?

I called out Lizard specifically, but that's more of a general response.  At what point do you stop chiming in just to bitch?  It's been going on for what?  A year now already?  Give it a rest people.

TBP has become a little ridiculous wrt 5e. Although to be fair, it seems like the endless "The sky is falling!" threads that spring up after each new announcement from wotc are basically populated by the same 10 posters who have been complaining from day one.

I don't think that group is very representative even of 4e fans, let alone the larger D&D community.

Well, that thread is really... ...something, all right.

It's interesting observing this going down as someone who doesn't have a horse in the race and will just keep running OD&D.75, but is fairly happy with what 5E is looking like.

Don't worry 4E fans, you guys can just keep running and playing 4E the same way I just ran and played OD&D. Seriously, the sky isn't falling, you can still have fun.

Everything will be just fine guys.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;630302And it's not you.  I'm not sure how many more times people need to explain this very important difference to you, but I'll give it a go one more time.

Proponents of a basic version of Next (such as myself) are NOT saying that the game must not have all these bells and whistles. In fact, we've pointed out several times that those bells and whistles should be available to those who want it.  The difference, and pay close attention here, is that the butthurt folks over at TPB want the core game to include all the bells and whistles from the get go.

Can you see the difference there?  We are not saying anyone else shouldn't get what they want.  Give them what they want.  But don't make it mandatory for everyone else.

Its absolutely fact at this point that basically everyone is willing to compromise and come together EXCEPT the hard-core online 4e fans.

Nobody is demanding that 5e be just like AD&D or 3.x the way they whine and toss out insults whenever anything isn't just like it was in 4e.

Quote from: Dimitrios;630318TBP has become a little ridiculous wrt 5e. Although to be fair, it seems like the endless "The sky is falling!" threads that spring up after each new announcement from wotc are basically populated by the same 10 posters who have been complaining from day one.

I don't think that group is very representative even of 4e fans, let alone the larger D&D community.

My lazy, and quick way to determine if D&D Next is doing things rights is to quickly see the crying threads at TBP (and official forums) and then to estimate the floods of tears. This then equals (directly) to how good D&D Next actually is; amazing but true!

Back to the thread, when I play I always play Cleric if I can and I'm quite happy being the healer. When I GM, there is always the NPC Cleric to be the healer if needed. D&D has classes for a reason, otherwise it wouldn't be D&D. I don't understand the problem. Every f-ing edition before 4E worked this way, so indeed 'cry some more'.

Quote from: Piestrio;630332Its absolutely fact at this point that basically everyone is willing to compromise and come together EXCEPT the hard-core online 4e fans.

Nobody is demanding that 5e be just like AD&D or 3.x the way they whine and toss out insults whenever anything isn't just like it was in 4e.

Everybody knows where I stand, and I don't mind a thing I've seen in 5e so far - insofar as some things were beta and therefore not going to make the final cut (Javelin of Fire and long rest versus short rest versus oh god just stop it already with "Rest" as a mechanic).

The Goons and BTP folks are honestly the only screechers I've seen thus far.

Quote from: Planet Algol;630330Well, that thread is really... ...something, all right.

It's interesting observing this going down as someone who doesn't have a horse in the race and will just keep running OD&D.75, but is fairly happy with what 5E is looking like.

Don't worry 4E fans, you guys can just keep running and playing 4E the same way I just ran and played OD&D. Seriously, the sky isn't falling, you can still have fun.

Everything will be just fine guys.

Word.  My little alternate reality B/X that I have built with Hulks and Horrors is all I really need.  The H&H engine will probably power my next game as well.

I just don't need 5e.  It'd be nice if it's a game I like, because it might be easier to find games of, but most people seem pretty enthusiastic about Hulks and Horrors too, so meh. I don't foresee many problems.

It seems to me that with Next they're essentially trying to remake 3e but with a few more of the trappings of the TSR editions. So it's no wonder that a lot of 4e fans aren't happy with it, because to them 3e was a broken system and 4e was a solution. Fair enough 4e was a solution that many people didn't like, but rather than find new solutions to the problems of 3e, Next seems to just want to forget they ever were problems in the first place.

What I don't get is why fans of any edition are happy with Next. Compromise is bullshit if it means you get a crappier version of the game you already play. Fans of the TSR editions still have their old books, or a decent retroclone. Fans of 3e have Pathfinder and all their old books. Fans of 4e have their old books and (for the moment) DDI. Is it really that important to always have new books in the pipeline? Important enough to settle for a lukewarm imitation of the game you really want to play?

I wish WotC had decided to polish up a version of 1e/2e with new art and layout, maybe put in a couple of minor modern innovations like ascending AC and FRW saves, and called it a day. Let Pathfinder keep the 3e crowd, and maybe do some kind of rules cyclopedia compendium for 4e as a standalone product under the title of D&D Heroes & Tactics or something.

I can be a fan of AD&D (I am) and still want to play Next for a bunch of reasons, including but not limited to: easier to find a pick up group, Next has things I like that AD&D doesn't (like backgrounds and specialties), etc.


Seriously man, this attitude that "if Next isn't better than your current edition in every way, then why should you play it' needs to die in fire.  No edition is perfect, and believe it or not, people can enjoy playing more than one edition of role-playing game.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;630347Seriously man, this attitude that "if Next isn't better than your current edition in every way, then why should you play it' needs to die in fire.  No edition is perfect, and believe it or not, people can enjoy playing more than one edition of role-playing game.

A-effing-men!  QFTMFT.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;630347I can be a fan of AD&D (I am) and still want to play Next for a bunch of reasons, including but not limited to: easier to find a pick up group, Next has things I like that AD&D doesn't (like backgrounds and specialties), etc.


Seriously man, this attitude that "if Next isn't better than your current edition in every way, then why should you play it' needs to die in fire.  No edition is perfect, and believe it or not, people can enjoy playing more than one edition of role-playing game.

This is what houserules and homebrew are for in my book.  Making the D&D you want, instead of what the D&D TSR/Wizards marketing and R&D departments decided a lucrative demographic average wants.  

My D&D will always be a better D&D for me than anything in print.

Quote from: Planet Algol;630330Well, that thread is really... ...something, all right.

I'm struck by how many of the posters in the thread didn't like D&D before 4e.