Quote from: Marleycat;544102Oh I know what you're talking about now. I did that survey when I signed up. It basically lets Wotc know if you're old school, Pathfinder, 2e, 3e, 4e and whatnot.

Mearls did mention somewhere that the surveys would be weighted that way because they do know that 4e players are going to respond for more than the other groups. This will stop them from artifically skewing the results.

I am thinking of the playtest feedback survey. Takes twenty minutes and asks your opinion about the playtesy document and how well it plays.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;544103I am thinking of the playtest feedback survey. Takes twenty minutes and asks your opinion about the playtesy document and how well it plays.

Well I have looked through the survey now, but I can't really answer it until I actually get to run it next week.

Sigh

So we have a choice between

Storyteller (The storyteller is a player who prefers the narrative of the game to individual character motivations and personality. This player sees the game as an ongoing chronicle of events in the fantasy world.)

Actor (The actor values narrative game elements over mechanical ones. Unlike the storyteller, she values her character's personality and motivations over other story elements.)

So narrative from a Story point of view or narrative from a character point of view.  The closest they can come to character immersion in a consistent setting is Actor.

It's a survey to identify focus groups using Robin Laws' definitions.  They just don't get it, do they?

Quote from: CRKrueger;544105Sigh

So we have a choice between

Storyteller (The storyteller is a player who prefers the narrative of the game to individual character motivations and personality. This player sees the game as an ongoing chronicle of events in the fantasy world.)

Actor (The actor values narrative game elements over mechanical ones. Unlike the storyteller, she values her character's personality and motivations over other story elements.)

So narrative from a Story point of view or narrative from a character point of view.  The closest they can come to character immersion in a consistent setting is Actor.

It's a survey to identify focus groups using Robin Laws' definitions.  They just don't get it, do they?

I chose Other (or whatever the none of the above option was). I did feel like the choices for that question were pretty terrible (i think they give you room to leave comments in a few places though, if enough people complain about those categories it will get their attention).

Alright. That's the part that matters here. No rants and no bullshit that'd give an excuse for the surveyors to not consider your feedback seriously. Just tell them what you like, don't like, and try to be as crystal clear as possible for them to understand your points.

Just completed it.  Liked: themes and backgrounds, advantage vs disadvantage.

Disliked: too many HP, long rests were WAY broken (potential issue for higher levels: if the cleric doesn't need to save spells for healing, it allows him to spend those spells making him a better fighter than the fighter).  And level 1 MU overpowered with the 1-2 punch of frost/MM cantrip (i.e. kiting).

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;544041I don't really deal in "ifs". When they change the playtest to something like what you describe above, I'll form a new opinion on that. Until then, I'm judging the game based on concrete evidence, that being the actual playtest which is mother-may-I up, down, and sideways.

It's a taste thing. I dislike mother-may-I intensely.

It's more than monther-may-I, although that's bad enough.

It's inconsistent (i.e. risks different ruling under the same conditions simply because they forgot what a previous ruling was).

It alos places extreme pressure upon the DM to always say yes (or risk being held being seen as unreasonable by players). This will happen even when the require 'Yes' breaks the rest of the game (such as mage hand being able to achieve combat results that actual physical combat couldn't as I've spoke of before).

It is better to be completely freeform than it is to be such a heavy mix of GM/Player whim (and make no mistake- it is both) and rules.

So opening the survey locks you into either completing it or never being able to complete it... fantastic idea there.

Quote from: gleichman;544111It's more than monther-may-I, although that's bad enough.

It's inconsistent (i.e. risks different ruling under the same conditions simply because they forgot what a previous ruling was).

It alos places extreme pressure upon the DM to always say yes (or risk being held being seen as unreasonable by players). This will happen even when the require 'Yes' breaks the rest of the game (such as mage hand being able to achieve combat results that actual physical combat couldn't as I've spoke of before).

It is better to be completely freeform than it is to be such a heavy mix of GM/Player whim (and make no mistake- it is both) and rules.

One assumes there will be strong DM guidelines, but it really doesn't matter if they do institute a Campaign template kind of a thing.
I can see a point where before a campaign starts the players and DM sit down and go through the Campaign template what do we want solid rules on? What is softer? Where is DM fiat allowed, where not? How do we handle healing etc .  Its a 30 minute conversation which sets expectations for everyone.
Or you pull a standard template. LFR, S&S, High Magic, Low Magic, OSR, and that sets some common rule parameters.

By the way re Mage hand its not about it doing things you couldn't do it combat it's about what could you do if you were standing behind someone and they didn't know you were there. It's not invisible but it is hand sized, silent and can float 5 feet off the ground.

Quote from: jibbajibba;544113One assumes there will be strong DM guidelines, but it really doesn't matter if they do institute a Campaign template kind of a thing.

For a whole cloth home game, it depends upon how complete it is. If complete enough, it will serve as well as any D&D style game can.

But what about adventure modules and supplements- what 'Campaign Template' will they be written for? Almost certainly not for any individual's group 'Campaign Template'. Making them suit will require the group to extensively modifiy each new D&D offering they buy.

WotC is rushing to make everying one happy and trying to offer everyone exactly what they want. They are doing this by putting in as many switches and dails as they can. They've forgotting the backside part of it, supporting it going forward. Over the long term, this game will be far more work for the players than it's worth. Sales will after the core will be low, I see a another business failure for WotC coming (although it will sucessful at first).

Quote from: jibbajibba;544113By the way re Mage hand its not about it doing things you couldn't do it combat it's about what could you do if you were standing behind someone and they didn't know you were there. It's not invisible but it is hand sized, silent and can float 5 feet off the ground.

And someone can't sneak up behind someone in combat? Interesting limit on combat don't you think?

Basically people in D&D play 'weird magic effects' with mage hand and other such spells because the combat system, well sucks.  Such 'yes it does/no it don't' spell debate is the only way to stay entertained.

It's been that way since the 70s, so that's one element of old school that 5th edition seems to have captured nicely.

Quote from: gleichman;544116For a whole cloth home game, it depends upon how complete it is. If complete enough, it will serve as well as any D&D style game can.

But what about adventure modules and supplements- what 'Campaign Template' will they be written for? Almost certainly not for any individual's group 'Campaign Template'. Making them suit will require the group to extensively modifiy each new D&D offering they buy.

WotC is rushing to make everying one happy and trying to offer everyone exactly what they want. They are doing this by putting in as many switches and dails as they can. They've forgotting the backside part of it, supporting it going forward. Over the long term, this game will be far more work for the players than it's worth. Sales will after the core will be low, I see a another business failure for WotC coming (although it will sucessful at first).
.

So I can see supplements being generic ie they add to the core rules and you apply the template after the effect.
I see Modules being made for a particular campaign style or even selling different flavours of the same module with different styles. I see this because
a) they can sell more product
b) its easier and the campaign styles will give them a whole range of new module types and flavours

Individual Settings may well be tied to a style, Dark Sun is a campaign style in it own right for example.

QuoteAnd someone can't sneak up behind someone in combat? Interesting limit on combat don't you think?
.

They can. They need a move silently skill to do it can they then try a pick pocket to lift an opponents dagger sure but if the other guy is actually in combat then I would give them disadvantage cos he keeps jigging about.
Course its harder to sneak behind someone if you are a 5'9" bloke in armour carrying a sword than it is if you are a disembodied floating silent hand

Quote from: jibbajibba;544129So I can see supplements being generic ie they add to the core rules and you apply the template after the effect.
I see Modules being made for a particular campaign style or even selling different flavours of the same module with different styles. I see this because
a) they can sell more product
b) its easier and the campaign styles will give them a whole range of new module types and flavours

Individual Settings may well be tied to a style, Dark Sun is a campaign style in it own right for example.

And you'd be willing to do the extra work converting these offerings to your group's Campaign Template or accept that you'll have less support for your campaign in total (WotC can only do x number per year you know)?

I don't see this working out well for WotC at all.

Quote from: jibbajibba;544129They can.

I find it humous that you think that a wimpy hand controlled remotely by someone is more capable in combat than a warrior.

But what the heck, it's a play style as old as the game.

Quote from: gleichman;544134And you'd be willing to do the extra work converting these offerings to your group's Campaign Template or accept that you'll have less support for your campaign in total (WotC can only do x number per year you know)?

I don't see this working out well for WotC at all.




I find it humous that you think that a wimpy hand controlled remotely by someone is more capable in combat than a warrior.

But what the heck, it's a play style as old as the game.

It's much easier than you're making out. Fantasy Craft does it all in one book. Basically put in a bunch of traits in the DMG such as "magic is dangerous" which means you can do something like Dark Sun or "magic is cylindrical" or whatever. Then when putting out adventures just put in sidebars of what's allowed or not or just advice if you want a different feel "just do this". Simple and done. Jibba is right, if they do it correctly it could be a literal goldmine.

Quote from: Marleycat;544136It's much easier than you're making out. Fantasy Craft does it all in one book. Basically put in a bunch of traits in the DMG such as "magic is dangerous" which means you can do something like Dark Sun or "magic is cylindrical" or whatever. Then when putting out adventures just put in sidebars of what's allowed or not or just advice if you want a different feel "just do this". Simple and done. Jibba is right, if they do it correctly it could be a literal goldmine.

Fantsy Craft isn't a big as D&D, it doesn't have a many offerings as WotC will.

Plus the number of options are much higher (changes in healing, use advantage/disadvantage, is mage hand a combat spell like jibbajibba wants it to be) in this version of D&D.

Impossible to deal with. Instead what you'll get is some rule of thumb dails in a module (easy, medium, hard basically although they may be keyed to certain common options)- not something for your own personal Campaign Template. And it's likely they won't have been playtested woth a dime in addition.

I wouldn't pay for such a product myself. Perhaps you have more money (or more likely just have everything dialed to 'super easy').

Quote from: CRKrueger;544105Sigh

So we have a choice between

Storyteller (The storyteller is a player who prefers the narrative of the game to individual character motivations and personality. This player sees the game as an ongoing chronicle of events in the fantasy world.)

Actor (The actor values narrative game elements over mechanical ones. Unlike the storyteller, she values her character's personality and motivations over other story elements.)

So narrative from a Story point of view or narrative from a character point of view.  The closest they can come to character immersion in a consistent setting is Actor.

It's a survey to identify focus groups using Robin Laws' definitions.  They just don't get it, do they?

Yeah, that bugged me as well. I just answered with a check on everything except other. Depending on my mood, I can play any of those types that they listed.